What is 'plot armor'?

[Matoro]

Plot armor isn't bulletproof, see the Red Wedding.

[Lord Reaver]

That was literal armour!

With the Egen fight, wasn't Bronn looking like the favourite anyway? That was just part of the fight, a touch to make it a bit different, not a deux ex machina when a character looked done for. He could have just as easily said "Egen continued to tire, and then Bronn had his opening, Egen lunged past him and Bronn caught his neck with his sword. Blood poured out as the old knight fell and shook violently".

Nope. The Arakh stuck in Jorah's hip. A quite unlikely and fortuitous event for Jorah, but not implausible, and as such, I'm fine with it.

Actually, Egen came within a hair's breadth of opening Bronn from neck to groin just before the statue thing (which also included Egen's sword breaking, another rather unlikely event, though explained somewhat with the sword being more for show than anything).

[The BlackBear]

Jorah did have armour over his hip, even if it was just chain, it would have slowed the Arakh quite a lot. Arakhs aren't designed to penetrate armour, they're designed to slice unarmoured opponents.

[Arya kiddin']

Plot armor isn't bulletproof, see the Red Wedding.

That would be plot progression, not plot armor.

[Lord Reaver]

Jorah did have armour over his hip, even if it was just chain, it would have slowed the Arakh quite a lot. Arakhs aren't designed to penetrate armour, they're designed to slice unarmoured opponents.

It did stop the first blow, although it was torn open. Then he got hit in the exact same spot, and the Arakh stuck in the bone.

[Woman of War]

There are three main characters imo, Jon, Dany and Tyrion. All three have (too much for some readers' taste) plot armour.

Martin wants to keep them in the story until at least the last chapters. What should the author do? Keep them out of harm's way in some remote corner while they are somehow poinlessly lingering around on the pages? Or give tem a compelling story? How would he do that while at the same time avoiding to put them in the middle of action? Tyrion is characterized by sudden fits of courage and by being hard to kill, by his survival skills of a cockroach (so mean, I stole that quote :) ). Dany is characterized by approaching Drogon in the pit and NOT burning but riding him. Will Jon somehow stay in the story despite all those dagger holes? Yes he will.

The alternative to so called plot armour is for main characters to bore the readers. Even non martial characters like Sam need their healthy amount of plot armour from time to time. All unexpected items can be seen as plot armour, may it be dragon eggs, dragonglass or special coins......

[The Gray Wanderer]

I can't think of any author off the top of my head that rights fewer characters with plot armor than GRRM.

He kills characters off at the drop of a hat. This isn't Star Wars were the most precise marksman in the galaxy suddenly can't hit the side of starcruiser from ten feet away if a main character runs past.

[protar]

I can't think of any author off the top of my head that rights fewer characters with plot armor than GRRM.

He kills characters off at the drop of a hat. This isn't Star Wars were the most precise marksman in the galaxy suddenly can't hit the side of starcruiser from ten feet away if a main character runs past.

The thing is, Martin's willingness to kill of major characters makes it that much more obvious when he does give somebody plot armour.

I'd say Dany has the most plot armour at the moment. Tyrion is a contender but if he were to die on the first page of TWOW he would have made a good contribution to the plot already. Dany has had barely any effect on the plot outside of her own sidestory - she really can't die until she gets to Westeros at the very least.

[Jasta11]

I don't really like using the term either. But I also think it's appropriate when we, as readers, know character X cannot die yet since their role has not been fulfilled. So whatever danger thyey are in are an illusion, and serve to deconstruct the tone set by events like the Red Wedding or the Nedless Incident, which make it very clear the author plays for keeps with his characters. Yet we know Bran won't die yet. We know Dany has a close to 0 chance to bite it until she gets to Westeros. Jon getting stabbed barely even fazed the fanbase because obviously he's going to live, because, hey, Prince That Was Promised and Secret Heir To The Throne and Azor Azhai Reborn and all that jazz. Tyrion is a special case, he survived so many things he had no business surviving, but I feel like he could still die at any moment, so it's a lesser example.

And no, this ain't a case of me not liking those characters. I like Tyrion and I like Jon in Dance.

[willofDorne]

Hmm... Arya hasn't really been in that much danger, other than being lost. In fact, for a long time she was extremely safe since she was under the protection of the Hound and he is just about as good as body guards get. Most people held captive at Harrenhal weren't killed, so her escape isn't that unrealistic. Lots of the Night's Watch's escort she travelled with escaped, too.

In the House of Black and White she has received extraordinary protection. So I think that it's not really that far-fetched.

Tyrion, on the other hand, yeah... but I don't care because it makes the story interesting. If I wanted realism then I wouldn't be eagerly awaiting Dany's dragons being ridden. ;)

TV Arya has killed maybe 4 people.

Book Arya has slain 10-20 people before she even gets to Essos.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

The thing is, Martin's willingness to kill of major characters makes it that much more obvious when he does give somebody plot armour.

I'd say Dany has the most plot armour at the moment. Tyrion is a contender but if he were to die on the first page of TWOW he would have made a good contribution to the plot already. Dany has had barely any effect on the plot outside of her own sidestory - she really can't die until she gets to Westeros at the very least.

I have to agree. Dany's plot armor is obvious, because she can't die until she arrives in Westeros, otherwise her arc is pointless. Any other character dying now, with the possible exception of the Stark children, have made their share of contribution. One might add that she has brought the Dragons back, but the point in bringing them back is for her to ride them! Therefore, Dany can't die now, at least not until she gets to her home, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.

[Ser Creighton]

It's when characters people don't like manage to still be alive when a fan wants them dead. They get mad and call it plot armor. Yes main POV characters tend to have longer life expectancies than people the author is not writing about, I have heard about this mythic plot armor. In most cases plot armor is known as the Author. Hey why didn't that person die, because Martin didn't kill them in the story. You may also know plot armor by another name, it's sometimes called the plot of the story.

[addicted to snow]

In my opinion, Tyrion's Plot Armor is superior to all other character's combined...

• The parting handshake between Tyrion & Jon suggest that they will meet again. Jon will become a force to be reckoned with in Westeros, but he will spare Tyrion
  
• Tyrion, having been truly drowned, has the favor of the drowned God - as does Davos & Sam
  
• Tyrion is soon to be in possession of the "Grand Gift" that the Sealord of Bravos awarded to Penny - That Grand Gift is obviously a Faceless-man coin & presumably can be used to stop the assassination of it's possessor...
  
• The list goes on...
  

Then there is all the foreshadowing:

• Tyrion has an army in the vale
  
• Tyrion has a key ally in the Eyrie (that guy he gave the gold to)
  
• Tyrion has an unrivaled understanding of Casterly Rock's Drainage system
  
• Tyrion knows how to make unique saddles & put one of these saddles on a dragon...
  
• The list goes on...
  

[Cas Stark]

It's when characters people don't like manage to still be alive when a fan wants them dead. They get mad and call it plot armor. Yes main POV characters tend to have longer life expectancies than people the author is not writing about, I have heard about this mythic plot armor. In most cases plot armor is known as the Author. Hey why didn't that person die, because Martin didn't kill them in the story. You may also know plot armor by another name, it's sometimes called the plot of the story.

I see it as more when characters go through multiple death defying adventures and don't die.

Sansa can't be said to have plot armor even though she's alive because her arc is so straightforward...highborn girl kept hostage so her name and lineage can be used to someone's advantage.

Tyrion on the other hand, has now gone through so many death defying situations, and that's just if we start when he gets to Essos that his plot armor has become ridiculous.

[Ser Creighton]

I have to agree. Dany's plot armor is obvious, because she can't die until she arrives in Westeros, otherwise her arc is pointless. Any other character dying now, with the possible exception of the Stark children, have made their share of contribution. One might add that she has brought the Dragons back, but the point in bringing them back is for her to ride them! Therefore, Dany can't die now, at least not until she gets to her home, the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.

Yes well if all characters die before their arc is done it tends to be pointless.

Call me Ishmael, "Whale eats him or he never comes back up after he fell overboard" and so ends the story of Moby Dick.

Yes if only the criminal had killed Pip what a great story that would of been.

"In my younger and more vulnerable years my father gave me some advice I've been turning over in my mind ever since."

No sorry none of that Pip your dead it's over.

Yes the characters should all die before their story is done, that way we can just avoid books altogether and make up are own endings. Oh wait people are already doing that like crazy here. I think they fear the resolution of the plot rather than the supposed plot armor.

Yes why doesn't the author kill off the characters who the story is about. He keeps killing off the characters or removing them after their story is done? That's just crazy.

[Woman of War]

<p>In my opinion, Tyrion's Plot Armor is superior to all other character's combined...

• The parting handshake between Tyrion & Jon suggest that they will meet again. Jon will become a force to be reckoned with in Westeros, but he will spare Tyrion
• Tyrion, having been truly drowned, has the favor of the drowned God - as does Davos & Sam
• Tyrion is soon to be in possession of the "Grand Gift" that the Sealord of Bravos awarded to Penny - That Grand Gift is obviously a Faceless-man coin & presumably can be used to stop the assassination of it's possessor...
• The list goes on...

Then there is all the foreshadowing:

• Tyrion has an army in the vale
• Tyrion has a key ally in the Eyrie
• Tyrion has an unrivaled understanding of Casterly Rock's Drainage system
• Tyrion knows how to make unique saddles & put one of these saddles on a dragon...
• The list goes on...

You call it plot armor, I call it............story :) and who could have more so-called plot armor than a young woman surviving a burning pyre! The maester on the road treating Sandor's broken leg! A boy falling from a tower and surviving! "Plot armor" ??? It's their respective stories!I think this is a completely pointless debate.

Yes the characters should all die before their story is done, that way we can just avoid books altogether and make up are own endings. Oh wait people are already doing that like crazy here. I think they fear the resolution of the plot rather than the supposed plot armor.

LOL :bowdown:

[wolfmaid7]

Steven Seagal or Chuck Norris

:bowdown: I can't say this enough......Best answer ever

[Arya Targaryen]

I see it as more when characters go through multiple death defying adventures and don't die.

Sansa can't be said to have plot armor even though she's alive because her arc is so straightforward...highborn girl kept hostage so her name and lineage can be used to someone's advantage.

Tyrion on the other hand, has now gone through so many death defying situations, and that's just if we start when he gets to Essos that his plot armor has become ridiculous.

But Sansa being still a virgin - that's her plot armor, not escaping death, but escaping rape.

[JonisHenryTudor]

How some characters are kept alive because the author wants to keep them alive (like how Tyrion probably wouldn't survive the Battle of the Green Fork in real life). I've never really cared about it, everything is done so the story goes where the author wants it to go.

Well maybe not. Considering that medieval warfare was chaotic, once injured and on the ground his opponent could have easily just moved onto to another. Since the Lannister's won the battle, he would have been saved from the lovely aftermath ritual of slaughtering any injured soldiers lying around. But there are certainly other instances that could be cited.

[Woman of War]

Sorry, dp