BryndenTullys#1fan Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Specifically ruled out by HBO a long time ago. They will not wait for the books and if they overtake, they overtake. They are not going to lose millions of dollars of revenue per year by waiting for books that might or might not come out a year later.Didn't the HBO producers say one time that GRRM has fed them the story lines already for the last two books, so they don't make things happen which will be in direct conflict with the book?If that's so I don't think we can assume a book publishing date based on when the tv series will catch the book.My gut tells me 2015 at the earliest. 1500, 2500, 25000. Don't care about the size as long as it gets finished and Jon's alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Didn't the HBO producers say one time that GRRM has fed them the story lines already for the last two books, so they don't make things happen which will be in direct conflict with the book?If that's so I don't think we can assume a book publishing date based on when the tv series will catch the book.My gut tells me 2015 at the earliest. 1500, 2500, 25000. Don't care about the size as long as it gets finished and Jon's alive No, they said GRRM told them how his story would end, in case something would happen to him before he could finish the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 No, they said GRRM told them how his story would end, in case something would happen to him before he could finish the series.How prudent yet morbid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADB Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 2014 is almost completely impossible at this stage. GRRM's updating modus operandi is to provide more detailed page counts starting about 18 months before publication. He has not done that yet. He also only had 25% of the book completed (but a bit more in unpolished drafts) in April 2013. Given the 3-5 month turnaround on the manuscript needed once the final MS is handed in, to get the book out even in December he'd need to be more like six months away from completing it now. There is zero indication this is the case. Except, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Martin basically say after ADWD that he didn't want to provide progress estimates any more because of the anticipation and the schedule slips surrounding ADWD? It seems from everything he's said publicly that what he wants to do with TWOW is basically only pop up and say something once it's actually done. So assuming that "Well, we'll see him start talking about it 18 months before it's done" doesn't seem like a valid assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Except, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Martin basically say after ADWD that he didn't want to provide progress estimates any more because of the anticipation and the schedule slips surrounding ADWD? It seems from everything he's said publicly that what he wants to do with TWOW is basically only pop up and say something once it's actually done. So assuming that "Well, we'll see him start talking about it 18 months before it's done" doesn't seem like a valid assumption. IIRC he didn't want to give estimations on how much time he would need anymore. I can't remember reading anything about him no longer wanting to give any updates at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloskey Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Specifically ruled out by HBO a long time ago. They will not wait for the books and if they overtake, they overtake. They are not going to lose millions of dollars of revenue per year by waiting for books that might or might not come out a year later. I guess if GRRM couldnt give them a firm completion date then it wouldn't make sense to wait. If he was closing in on an ending though and only needed a matter of months to finish there's no way I don't see them waiting. They could even film it and wait to air it until after the books are out. If I knew the last season was coming going to air and potentially spoil the book series I would wait on it until after the books came out. And I dont think I would be the only one. So I think its the matter of time of a delay needed that would matter. Plus dragging it out a bit would increase anticipation like it did for Sopranos. I think in the end its the only realistic way of not overtaking the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 IIRC he didn't want to give estimations on how much time he would need anymore. I can't remember reading anything about him no longer wanting to give any updates at all. actully he did a while back GRRM pretty much outright said there would be few if any updates on TWoW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 actully he did a while back GRRM pretty much outright said there would be few if any updates on TWoW Few if any? So we might not get any updates at all? Oh, the cruelty... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 If he was closing in on an ending though and only needed a matter of months to finish there's no way I don't see them waiting. The problem with this is that HBO do not give much of a toss about the book readers. The TV audience is already vastly bigger than the book reading audience (the USA alone has more viewers than there are readers of the books worldwide) and HBO has budgets, timetables and schedules involving the transactions of tens of millions of dollars to worry about. There is no way that HBO are going to delay any season of GoT based on when the books come or don't come out. Delaying would throw their entire schedule for the next 1-2 years out of whack, and they're not going to do that for a reason such as 'we're going to spoil the books'. HBO don't care about that. Except, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Martin basically say after ADWD that he didn't want to provide progress estimates any more because of the anticipation and the schedule slips surrounding ADWD? It seems from everything he's said publicly that what he wants to do with TWOW is basically only pop up and say something once it's actually done. So assuming that "Well, we'll see him start talking about it 18 months before it's done" doesn't seem like a valid assumption. Indeed. And GRRM said whilst writing ADWD that he wouldn't provide any updates until it was done (and then he did). And the same on AFFC. GRRM has his writing/updating style which is basically that he promises not to provide updates, and then he does when the book nears completion and his optimism takes off. It's certainly possible that this time around there are more reasons for not providing those updates (and the updating he has done on TWoW certainly seems to have been informed by the mistakes made with ADWD), but on the balance of it it is more likely we will see a repeat of the previous process. As I've said before, I would be perfectly fine with GRRM proving me wrong though:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 The problem with this is that HBO do not give much of a toss about the book readers. The TV audience is already vastly bigger than the book reading audience (the USA alone has more viewers than there are readers of the books worldwide) and HBO has budgets, timetables and schedules involving the transactions of tens of millions of dollars to worry about. There is no way that HBO are going to delay any season of GoT based on when the books come or don't come out. Delaying would throw their entire schedule for the next 1-2 years out of whack, and they're not going to do that for a reason such as 'we're going to spoil the books'. HBO don't care about that. So...basically when/if GoT catches up I'm going to have to completely avoid the fucking internet!? I never watched the show past the first season but I always know where it's up to and what's happening purely because of how many viewers it has and how many people talk about it on the internet. That sounds pretty dire to me. It's probably not very tasteful to say but I seriously hope 'something happens' and the show gets cancelled. Also, just a thought but they could do some prequel stuff couldn't they? I know they always complain about the child actors getting older but it at least solves all the timetable budget stuff and keeps the readers happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 So...basically when/if GoT catches up I'm going to have to completely avoid the fucking internet!? Pretty much. Also, just a thought but they could do some prequel stuff couldn't they? No, and GRRM has said he is not minded to sell them the rights to things like Robert's Robellion. They have discussed Dunk and Egg, but if that happens it'd be after GoT or alongside it, not instead of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 So...basically when/if GoT catches up I'm going to have to completely avoid the fucking internet!? I never watched the show past the first season but I always know where it's up to and what's happening purely because of how many viewers it has and how many people talk about it on the internet. That sounds pretty dire to me. It's probably not very tasteful to say but I seriously hope 'something happens' and the show gets cancelled. Also, just a thought but they could do some prequel stuff couldn't they? I know they always complain about the child actors getting older but it at least solves all the timetable budget stuff and keeps the readers happy. nope, the actors playing the kids would grow up. Not to mention everyone is under contract. I really wouldn’t mind if the show had a different ending to be perfectly honest. I simply enjoy the books for being awesome books and the show for being an awesome show. And when they do catch up, since GRRM likes to write like a snail, that’s probably what will happen and I expect that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 No, and GRRM has said he is not minded to sell them the rights to things like Robert's Robellion. They have discussed Dunk and Egg, but if that happens it'd be after GoT or alongside it, not instead of it. Not to criticise the all powerful GRRM but he had so much control that he only gave them that specific timeframe but didn't stop them going into territory that the books have yet to cover? If I had that much control my biggest concern would be making sure they can't go past the books/spoil stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azor Ahoy! Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Indeed. And GRRM said whilst writing ADWD that he wouldn't provide any updates until it was done (and then he did). And the same on AFFC. Well maybe this is good since if GRRM gives us an update on Winds despite what he said and despite what happened with Dance it might mean Winds is almost done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well maybe this is good since if GRRM gives us an update on Winds despite what he said and despite what happened with Dance it might mean Winds is almost done? to be fair, he said Dance was almost done in 2009 and we still didn't get it until 2011, so his updates have a habbit of being BS anyway sure he might finish a chapter here or there, but those type of updates usually don't mean much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well maybe this is good since if GRRM gives us an update on Winds despite what he said and despite what happened with Dance it might mean Winds is almost done? GRRM reported making pretty good progress last year after only having a couple of months to devote to TWoW entirely, so it may well be that - if that has continued - GRRM will have a larger chunk of the book done by now. However, to get the book out in 2014 GRRM would have to write and finalise 75% of the novel in just twelve months or so, and there is no indication he's done that. He'd have to be writing faster than when he was writing ASoS to achieve that. Not to criticise the all powerful GRRM but he had so much control that he only gave them that specific timeframe but didn't stop them going into territory that the books have yet to cover? If I had that much control my biggest concern would be making sure they can't go past the books/spoil stuff. As far as I can tell, the deal with HBO was for the Song of Ice and Fire novels and the novels alone. The novellas were not included. In fact, according to someone who asked GRRM at a con, all prequels and original stories (i.e. the writers creating original stories set in Westeros outside of the ASoIaF storyline) were specifically excluded by the contract, which was rather canny of him (GRRM showing his experience with Hollywood bullshit contract negotiations, presumably). However, it is impossible that HBO would have agreed to the project if they didn't have the power to finish the series if they overtook, and presumably there would be contingency arrangements for that (i.e. GRRM giving the writers outlines of the remainder of the story, which now seems to have happened twice over, plus he gave the writers a draft of ADWD some time before it was published). Also, clearly, the contract allows for deviations from the books given that we've now seen quite a few. To summarise, HBO have the power to do pretty much what they want with the ASoIaF storyline itself but no power whatsoever to make up their own stuff or adapt other things (including things alluded to in the SoIaF novels) without reaching a fresh deal with GRRM. They have that new development deal with GRRM, but they haven't optioned anything else of his that we know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Off Topic, but I just looked on Not a Blog and GRRM said he is in England this year in August. Does anyone know why + where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sifth Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Let’s just hope he doesn’t run into another one of those knots You know where Tyrion, Vic and Quentyn have to meet up with Dany and only one does by the end of the book, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of the Beast Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 So do you think GRRM is obligated to give them outlines of the story for stuff that isn't in the books yet? Because as far as I'm concerned the less the know the better. One of the reasons I used to be optimistic about the show catching up was because I assumed they had to use the books as their guides. This thread has got me very concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Off Topic, but I just looked on Not a Blog and GRRM said he is in England this year in August. Does anyone know why + where? In London for WorldCon 2014, August 14-18. So do you think GRRM is obligated to give them outlines of the story for stuff that isn't in the books yet? We already know he has done. When the series first started he apparently gave them some notes so they'd know which characters were necessary and which weren't (which apparently they immediately ignored, killing off several characters who should have stuck around), and then at the start of last year they flew to Santa Fe, sat down and had a brainstorming/story conference where GRRM went through what was coming up in much more detail so they could start making more detailed plans for when/if the series overtakes and how they can start setting up the endgame. Basically, the series finishes in 2017 or 2018 (depending on a 7 or 8 season order) regardless of where George is with the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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