R+L=J v 67

[addicted to snow]

Danny is quickly loosing her grip on reality (if she ever had one)…

I do see Danny being blamed for the eventual fire / explosion that will destroy King's Landing & kill everyone unfortunate enough to be within the city walls. Whether or not she will truly be responsible, I cannot say - my magic 8-ball is giving me mixed signals.

However, I do not think that she will be acting on vengeance to the degree that Jon does.

I always thought that Old Nan's line: "The Gods do not deny a man his vengeance" [or something like this] was a very interesting statement...

[Han Snow]

Jon was the 'Anikan Skywalker' of this story & by the end of TWOW he will have fully transformed into Darth Vader.

Of course his power will be used to rain his vengeance down upon Westeros as opposed to expanding the Galactic Empire.

Jon will become a force to be reckoned with for anyone wanting to take control of or rule Westeros. In the end Jon will in some way show favor to Tyrion Lannister who will be the reigning king whenever the series closes. Jon will not survive the series, but that is no surprise,

No, I do not possess any special link to GRRM's thoughts, just like you, I have to look for clues & foreshadowing in the books… The above statements are all based upon clues found in the books.

Honestly, if I were GRRM, I would do just this. I wrote the exact Vader comparison a thread or two ago. On a personal level, as a big Jon fan, I don't want to see this happening.

But I dare you to post all the clues as a compelling enough case for jury to give the verdict guilty. There are teases, thought provoking lines and a hint here and there that could pan out into something yet it is open for different interpretations. In the end it is all up to George to write and determine the course of his story. We can build a great case for something that has explicit clues in the text and actually happened in the narrative past like R+L=J, but claiming something that is yet to happen in future books with the conviction of the author himself is a bit immature and irresponsible. There is an old Croatian saying that goes: Zivi bili pa vidjeli. Which would mean: Let's live long enough to see what actually happens.

[Chatty Duelist]

Hasn't GRRM said that Jon will become a much darker character overall?

[Han Snow]

A darker character doesn't necessarily mean a villain.

[Moondancer]

Hasn't GRRM said that Jon will become a much darker character overall?

I think he said <greyer> but I can't find the source... Which summons a different perspective.

[Skagosi High Chef]

Danny is quickly loosing her grip on reality (if she ever had one)…

I do see Danny being blamed for the eventual fire / explosion that will destroy King's Landing & kill everyone unfortunate enough to be within the city walls. Whether or not she will truly be responsible, I cannot say - my magic 8-ball is giving me mixed signals.

However, I do not think that she will be acting on vengeance to the degree that Jon does.

I always thought that Old Nan's line: "The Gods do not deny a man his vengeance" [or something like this] was a very interesting statement...

Do you know where that line is?

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Yeah, he will probably be one of those "antiheroes" that are all the rage these days.

[Lyse Stark]

Danny is quickly loosing her grip on reality (if she ever had one)

I do see Danny being blamed for the eventual fire / explosion that will destroy King's Landing & kill everyone unfortunate enough to be within the city walls. Whether or not she will truly be responsible, I cannot say - my magic 8-ball is giving me mixed signals.

However, I do not think that she will be acting on vengeance to the degree that Jon does.

I always thought that Old Nan's line: "The Gods do not deny a man his vengeance" [or something like this] was a very interesting statement...

I've always taken that to mean that the Old Gods will reap karmic retribution on the Lannisters, Freys, and others that betrayed the Starks.

[Black Crow]

Do you know where that line is?

The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the Nightfort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated. “It was not for murder that the gods cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the Nightfort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated. “It was not for murder that the gods cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

Not to get off on a tangent, but this in one stroke condemns the Freys and acquits Wyman Manderly. :D

[Lyse Stark]

Not to get off on a tangent, but this in one stroke condemns the Freys and acquits Wyman Manderly. :D

And that mean Walder and his family will be slaughtered in front of his eyes by his enemies, or he'll dies, and the Freys end up cannabalizing each other's afterwards.

[Ser Leftwich]

So is there an existing thread where the new crop of "Aegon was at the ToJ" theorists live?

They just jump in places with no real full theory and disappear again.

(Also, I need a good laugh.) :laugh:

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So is there an existing thread where the new crop of "Aegon was at the ToJ" theorists live?

They just jump in places with no real full theory and disappear again.

(Also, I need a good laugh.) :laugh:

I have absolutely no idea. The person who mentioned it as his theory did not answer when I asked him if there was a thread about it.

But It's definitly one of the strangest theories I've ever heard off :D

[J. Stargaryen]

So is there an existing thread where the new crop of "Aegon was at the ToJ" theorists live?

They just jump in places with no real full theory and disappear again.

(Also, I need a good laugh.) :laugh:

I have absolutely no idea. The person who mentioned it as his theory did not answer when I asked him if there was a thread about it.

But It's definitly one of the strangest theories I've ever heard off :D

That individual argued his case several threads back. It was less than impressive in its best spots.

The case was also argued many months ago as well and, again, there's simply nothing to it. The best that could be said is that it absolutely cannot be ruled out as a possibility, even though it almost surely can. And people who have a fundamental understanding of reasoning know that 'you can't prove it didn't happen' is a worthless claim by any accepted standard; e.g., logically, legally, scientifically.

[Alia of the knife]

GRRM never denied the character Aegons possible return, which means only it opens the door for an imposter in the tradition of a Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnell rather than the real Aegon.

I'd sooner believe Elia herself outwitted everyone including Varys, but she wouldn't have sent him to the TOJ.

I believe though the real Aegon was murdered, and think both his AND Rhaenys memory will figure as heavily in Jons vengeance and retribution as for his Stark family, because after all, they were his true blood siblings.

[Skagosi High Chef]

The Rat Cook had cooked the son of the Andal king in a big pie with onions, carrots, mushrooms, lots of pepper and salt, a rasher of bacon, and a dark red Dornish wine. Then he served him to his father, who praised the taste and had a second slice. Afterward the gods transformed the cook into a monstrous white rat who could only eat his own young. He had roamed the Nightfort ever since, devouring his children, but still his hunger was not sated. “It was not for murder that the gods cursed him,” Old Nan said, “nor for serving the Andal king his son in a pie. A man has a right to vengeance. But he slew a guest beneath his roof, and that the gods cannot forgive.”

Thank you Black Crow.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So is there an existing thread where the new crop of "Aegon was at the ToJ" theorists live?

They just jump in places with no real full theory and disappear again.

(Also, I need a good laugh.) :laugh:

Here, now you can laugh :D I could use some assistance here :)

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/101419-aegon-at-toj/

[The guy from the Vale]

Giving it my best shot already ;)

[Lyse Stark]

GRRM never denied the character Aegons possible return, which means only it opens the door for an imposter in the tradition of a Perkin Warbeck or Lambert Simnell rather than the real Aegon.

I'd sooner believe Elia herself outwitted everyone including Varys, but she wouldn't have sent him to the TOJ.

I believe though the real Aegon was murdered, and think both his AND Rhaenys memory will figure as heavily in Jons vengeance and retribution as for his Stark family, because after all, they were his true blood siblings.

And it would also be a major theme that surrounds the Lannisters' downfall, as what they gained, they'll soon lose to others.

[Brienne The Wolf]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!