R+L=J v 67

[Brienne The Wolf]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

[Alia of the knife]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

Another indication Ned is not his Father. Good catch:)

[Skagosi High Chef]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

Yea he didn't have to say Ned did he? Something I read last night really supports R+L=J too, "Some secrets are too dangerous to share even with those you love and trust." It was all in the context of Robert killing Dany, and Lyanna, and Jon. If it isn't true it was one of the best bait and switches in literary history.

[Ygrain]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

Another indication Ned is not his Father. Good catch:)

Indeed. Mother, father, Ned indicates quite clearly that Ned is neither :P

Personally, I like best that slip of Kit Harrington's: "Jon doesn't know who his parents are - who his mother is -" If he thought he was Ned's son, he'd never have said "parents".

Yea he didn't have to say Ned did he? Something I read last night really supports R+L=J too, "Some secrets are too dangerous to share even with those you love and trust." It was all in the context of Robert killing Dany, and Lyanna, and Jon. If it isn't true it was one of the best bait and switches in literary history.

True enough. Neither Ashara, nor Wylla, nor the fisherman's daughter represent dangerous knowledge, and there is no other secret that ned harbours other than the name of John's mother. - BTW, have oyu noticed that he never, ever, thinks of any other woman but Cat - and Lyanna?

There are so many such clues, all tying together, that it is, IMHO, virtually impossible to pull any other solution.

[Skagosi High Chef]

I should probably elaborated more on the book quote. I don't think it was Robert he was talking about keeping the secret from. He loved Robert, but he did not trust him because of his temper. It was Cat he loved and trusted. He also says over and over what the secret cost him. He would lose no honor in the realm by fathering a bastard. Most every high lord does. It cost him in Cat's eyes and in the shame he caused Jon. What other secret would cost him anything?

[The guy from the Vale]

Indeed. Mother, father, Ned indicates quite clearly that Ned is neither :P

Personally, I like best that slip of Kit Harrington's: "Jon doesn't know who his parents are - who his mother is -" If he thought he was Ned's son, he'd never have said "parents".

True enough. Neither Ashara, nor Wylla, nor the fisherman's daughter represent dangerous knowledge, and there is no other secret that ned harbours other than the name of John's mother. - BTW, have oyu noticed that he never, ever, thinks of any other woman but Cat - and Lyanna?

There are so many such clues, all tying together, that it is, IMHO, virtually impossible to pull any other solution.

Yep. There is a grand total of five women or girls Ned thinks about in his POV: Cat, Cersei, Lyanna, Sansa and Arya. Sansa and Arya are too young to be Jon's mother ( ;) ) Cat knows she isn't and tells us in her POV, Cersei never figures in terms of love or lust for Ned (who declines her offer, after all), and Lyanna is long dead. No thoughts of Ashara, or Wylla, or the Fisherman's daughter. If we assume with Cat that Ned must have loved Jon's mother very much (and I see no reason not to take it as a clue), only Lyanna remains as the possible mother... and with her as the mother, it becomes very clear very soon that Ned is not Jon's father, supported by Ned never thinking of Jon as his son.

ETA: He thinks of Barra, Margaery and Mya Stone too, but all three are too young to be Jon's mother.

[Ygrain]

I should probably elaborated more on the book quote. I don't think it was Robert he was talking about keeping the secret from. He loved Robert, but he did not trust him because of his temper. It was Cat he loved and trusted. He also says over and over what the secret cost him. He would lose no honor in the realm by fathering a bastard. Most every high lord does. It cost him in Cat's eyes and in the shame he caused Jon. What other secret would cost him anything?

It also cost him by causing pain to both Cat and Jon, not to mention that he had to worry about their fate should the secret ever out, because he was committing treason by keeping Jon secret from Robert.

[FrozenFire3]

Indeed. Mother, father, Ned indicates quite clearly that Ned is neither :P

Personally, I like best that slip of Kit Harrington's: "Jon doesn't know who his parents are - who his mother is -" If he thought he was Ned's son, he'd never have said "parents".

Here is your link, dear Ygrain (round 1:30). A little festive 'treat' for all the R+L=J posse.

[Dio Westeros-X]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

Another indication Ned is not his Father. Good catch:)

Yea he didn't have to say Ned did he? Something I read last night really supports R+L=J too, "Some secrets are too dangerous to share even with those you love and trust." It was all in the context of Robert killing Dany, and Lyanna, and Jon. If it isn't true it was one of the best bait and switches in literary history.

I definitely think R+L = J. But this statement doesn't necessarily imply it. Some people believe Tywin isn't really Tyrion's father so does this statement disprove that since GRRM explicitly said by his "father"? Maybe it was the fact that Jon's parentage is so much in question and Tyrion's MINIMALLY so... so he wanted to be vague with Jon and didn't even think twice about the Tyrion comment. Maybe it was a freudian slip on both fronts. But definitely a good catch... this statement may have inadvertently cleared up 2 ongoing question marks of the story... the one massive mystery of Jon's parentage and the lesser believed but still intriguing question of Tyrion's.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Here is your link, dear Ygrain (round 1:30). A little festive 'treat' for all the R+L=J posse.

Love his comments starting at around 3:40 about Jon's unknown quantity, described as a "flame in him" and his "fiery side" ;)

[Lyse Stark]

Love his comments starting at around 3:40 about Jon's unknown quantity, described as a "flame in him" and his "fiery side" ;)

Yes Jon has a bit of flame in his icy exterior. And this flame will balance out the harshness that Jon'll gain as a result of being raised in the North, and the fact that he'll be at the forefront of the war again the Others.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Something interesting I found, in this interview (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Numerous_Questions1/) GRRM said "Daenerys was named by her mother, Tyrion by his father, and Jon by Ned". He didn't say that Jon was named by his father, he said Ned instead!

Interesting... There goes my theory that Lyanna named Jon for Jon Connington, Rhaegar's close friend, after she discovered it wasn't a girl as Rhaegar had most likely expected, and whose name would most likely have been Visenya...

[yolkboy]

Interesting... There goes my theory that Lyanna named Jon for Jon Connington, Rhaegar's close friend, after she discovered it wasn't a girl as Rhaegar had most likely expected, and whose name would most likely have been Visenya...

Yes Jon for Arryn - and the whole quote leaves open the possibility that Lyanna did provide a Targ name for Jon, and of course Ned would have wanted to hide that by renaming with an inconspicuous name.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Yes Jon for Arryn - and the whole quote leaves open the possibility that Lyanna did provide a Targ name for Jon, and of course Ned would have wanted to hide that by renaming with an inconspicuous name.

It gets more interesting... :D I really hope some part of this is cleared up in WoW.

[Lyse Stark]

Yes Jon for Arryn - and the whole quote leaves open the possibility that Lyanna did provide a Targ name for Jon, and of course Ned would have wanted to hide that by renaming with an inconspicuous name.

And the fact that Jon is such a common name help conceal Jon Snow from Robert, and the Targaryen name that Lyanna would have given would be waylaid. So after Jon rise to power as king, he would prefer to use Jon instead of his original name as it ties him to the Starks, the First men and to Westeros. The Targaryen names has no connection to the First Men, only Old Valyria, and Jon doesn't identify with Valyrian customs.

[John Hulboy]

when I first read game of thrones I knew jon was lyannas son .I first thought how could she be with him considering what his father did to her father and brother. I thought it was rape .then as I read all the books lil bits and pieces filled my head an now I have come to be a believer in rheagar/lyanna an there love produced jon. i cant wait too see whats in the crypts something like an egg sword torrens crown.i hope jon is alive.i want his story to continue .he is a character you can root for so much has happened to the starks an targs i want a happy ending .

[addicted to snow]

Yes Jon has a bit of flame in his icy exterior. And this flame will balance out the harshness that Jon'll gain as a result of being raised in the North, and the fact that he'll be at the forefront of the war again the Others.

Yeah, this story is not going to be quite as peachy as what you think… GRRM is not writing a commercial for Tide Detergent… Jon is far more likely to be leading the Others than to be leading the opposition to the Others.

The Starks (of which Jon is at least half) were once called the Kings of Winter. The Starks Rule over the Others. The Others are possessions/vassals of House Stark.

You may not like the person that will become in The Winds of Winter. He has a lot of changing to do as well as lot of learning to do in the next book & it will be very interesting to see exactly what catalysts GRRM provides to make these changes & give Jon the knowledge that is needed to be the Darth Vader of the story. I would imagine that one of these catalysts was being stabbed 3-4 times by his Brothers.

Ultimately, Jon is more likely to use to Others as a weapon against Westeros.

[Lyse Stark]

Yeah, this story is not going to be quite as peachy as what you think GRRM is not writing a commercial for Tide Detergent Jon is far more likely to be leading the Others than to be leading the opposition to the Others.

The Starks (of which Jon is at least half) were once called the Kings of Winter. The Starks Rule over the Others. The Others are possessions/vassals of House Stark.

You may not like the person that will become in The Winds of Winter. He has a lot of changing to do as well as lot of learning to do in the next book & it will be very interesting to see exactly what catalysts GRRM provides to make these changes & give Jon the knowledge that is needed to be the Darth Vader of the story. I would imagine that one of these catalysts was being stabbed 3-4 times by his Brothers.

Ultimately, Jon is more likely to use to Others as a weapon against Westeros.

I doubt your idea. You think Jon Snow is gonna be a villain? I think Daenerys is gonna BE the villain. She has the dragons, and she will possibly use them. And the path she is currently ON is hinted by a certain quote.

Dragons plant no trees.

What do this means for Daenerys? She has chosen a path of destruction and bloodshed. This results in many people losing their livelihoods and being forced to rebuild from virtually nothing. And others end up being killed.

As she progresses much deeper into darkness, she may even kill innocent people in order to make a point, and the Second Dance of The Dragons may push her over the edge to the point that she become the one deeply despised by many people.

[J. Stargaryen]

I know it's kind of obnoxious to post the same thing three different places, but this is pretty cool, and I wanted to make sure the regulars around here saw it.

So, last thread it occurred to me that Wylla Manderly's "I know about the promise ..." speech from ADwD, Davos III was a nod to Wylla the wet-nurse knowing about Promise me, Ned. Well, immediately before Wylla begins her speech, her mother says to her: "You know nothing."

“Hush, child,” said Lady Leona. “You heard your lord grandfather. Hush! You know nothing.”
“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!”

- ADwD, Davos III

One of the reasons I love this series is that there are so many little gems like this, which we keep finding even in late 2013. Though I suppose Dance itself isn't very old. Still, pretty awesome.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Yeah, this story is not going to be quite as peachy as what you think… GRRM is not writing a commercial for Tide Detergent… Jon is far more likely to be leading the Others than to be leading the opposition to the Others.

The Starks (of which Jon is at least half) were once called the Kings of Winter. The Starks Rule over the Others. The Others are possessions/vassals of House Stark.

You may not like the person that will become in The Winds of Winter. He has a lot of changing to do as well as lot of learning to do in the next book & it will be very interesting to see exactly what catalysts GRRM provides to make these changes & give Jon the knowledge that is needed to be the Darth Vader of the story. I would imagine that one of these catalysts was being stabbed 3-4 times by his Brothers.

Ultimately, Jon is more likely to use to Others as a weapon against Westeros.

This 'theory' always gives me such a good laugh. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: And it's only noon over here! Oh, this will be another promising day!