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Stubby

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Yes, I think sometimes the impression is, or you are led to believe that Ned himself had a lot to do with Jaimies angst after the his rejection.

In our world, you would take Jaimie aside and say while it's never good to kill your king, in this instance, he did what he had to do and saved KL, (pats him on the back).

Instead, the young lion needs therapy.

In this case Therapy being a giant good hearted Warrior woman kicking his ass, and someone cutting his hand off, finished off by a nice hot bath. Westeros therapy seems a little unconventional. I'll take the hot bath with a woman and skip the other two thanks.

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Happy New Year!



:D



So, does anyone else beside me think that Targs know about TPTWP prophecy from Daenys Targayen? I think that the whole reason for Aegon to conquer Westeros was because he thought that Targs had to become a royal family, Kings and Queens, so the prophecy could be fulfilled properly, and he probably had visions of his own. Marwyn and his three pages of Signs and Portents will probably shed some light on the matter when he gets to Dany (and Tyrion), maybe the whole book gets found before Dany arrives in Westeros...


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Happy New Year!

:D

So, does anyone else beside me think that Targs know about TPTWP prophecy from Daenys Targayen? I think that the whole reason for Aegon to conquer Westeros was because he thought that Targs had to become a royal family, Kings and Queens, so the prophecy could be fulfilled properly, and he probably had visions of his own. Marwyn and his three pages of Signs and Portents will probably shed some light on the matter when he gets to Dany (and Tyrion), maybe the whole book gets found before Dany arrives in Westeros...

It's possible, but the profesies of tPtwP are older than that, so imo it's likely that the Valyrians knew them allready long before that... (I might be very wrong, so don't flame me if I am...)

Happy new year from me too ofcourse!

(My 1000th post ) :)

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Happy New Year!

:D

So, does anyone else beside me think that Targs know about TPTWP prophecy from Daenys Targayen? I think that the whole reason for Aegon to conquer Westeros was because he thought that Targs had to become a royal family, Kings and Queens, so the prophecy could be fulfilled properly, and he probably had visions of his own. Marwyn and his three pages of Signs and Portents will probably shed some light on the matter when he gets to Dany (and Tyrion), maybe the whole book gets found before Dany arrives in Westeros...

I think that's possible. I tend to think though that the prophecy really is very old and that Daenys, if she did anything, may have narrowed it down to their family like the Ghost narrowed it down to Aerys and Rhaella's specific line. It's also possible that Aegon landed when and how he did because HE thought he was fulfilling some prophecy. That would be a way to connect the Targaryen sigil/history to the "dragon has three heads" thing, something that has yet to be convincingly done. Of course, there's the fact that if Aegon thought he fulfilled this prophecy, he was wrong, which throws the whole connection into doubt again.

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In this case Therapy being a giant good hearted Warrior woman kicking his ass, and someone cutting his hand off, finished off by a nice hot bath. Westeros therapy seems a little unconventional. I'll take the hot bath with a woman and skip the other two thanks.

Yep, which is why the show brought in Ros the prostitute/psychotherapist.

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Yep, which is why the show brought in Ros the prostitute/psychotherapist.

In fact, he just needed to be left alone. He'd been a puppet in the hands of his father and sister, you know, "the things I do for love."

In his own beastly way, he was a sensible man, he was appalled when Aerys roasted the Starks, and again when Aerys raped Rhaella, only to be sourly rebuffed by those honourfull fanatics whom Ned admired much. And then, when he saved KL from being burnt, he only received the very Ned's contemp for sitting on a bloody heap of steel, to behold how he'd paid KL's live with his own honour.

GRRM's awful irony has provided a verse in The Rains of Castamere that fits the scene (I quote by memory): and who are you to think you're higher than me? Jaime could have said better, or something, as well.

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In fact, he just needed to be left alone. He'd been a puppet in the hands of his father and sister, you know, "the things I do for love."

In his own beastly way, he was a sensible man, he was appalled when Aerys roasted the Starks, and again when Aerys raped Rhaella, only to be sourly rebuffed by those honourfull fanatics whom Ned admired much. And then, when he saved KL from being burnt, he only received the very Ned's contemp for sitting on a bloody heap of steel, to behold how he'd paid KL's live with his own honour.

GRRM's awful irony has provided a verse in The Rains of Castamere that fits the scene (I quote by memory): and who are you to think you're higher than me? Jaime could have said better, or something, as well.

I was joking about Ros, but seriously, I do think there have been some obstacles to Jaimie realizing his potential for true happiness.

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It's possible, but the profesies of tPtwP are older than that, so imo it's likely that the Valyrians knew them allready long before that... (I might be very wrong, so don't flame me if I am...)

Happy new year from me too ofcourse!

(My 1000th post ) :)

Congrats! I was thinking specifically about tptwp prophecy, which was as Apple Martini wrote; just narrowing down of, again I think, Azor Ahai prophecy. Linking Azor Ahai to the Targaryens. Then the Ghost of High Heart further narrowed the coming of the messiah to a person directly coming from Aerys's and Rhaella's progeny. Meaning either Dany or Jon or fAegon.

Of course, there's the fact that if Aegon thought he fulfilled this prophecy, he was wrong, which throws the whole connection into doubt again.

It doesn't matter what he thought. Be it that he was tptwp or that he had to conquer Westeros in his family's name to fulfill something from Signs and Portents or his own visions. What matters is that he did manage to turn Targs into royalty...For a while at least. (oh, the sweet irony of asoiaf) So Jon (if Rhaegar married Lyanna), fAegon (if real and without f) and Dany can be considered princes and a princess.

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I was joking about Ros, but seriously, I do think there have been some obstacles to Jaimie realizing his potential for true happiness.

I don't know if he can, maybe he can get over the incest, but the children are going to haunt him forever. You got Bran but mostly Rhaegar's kids, that's his true nightmare. Wonder what he is going to think about FAegon? You know something is going to come out about Jaime and those kids like maybe the little girl was calling for him when she was pulled from under the bed or something like that, Martin loves to make characters suffer and that would be a dagger to the heart for him. Or his reactions to Dany or Jon.

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Well (and I'm just riffing here), she may not have simply given them a straightforward prophecy. What we heard was Barristan's memory of his interpretation of what she said.

If indeed he heard it first hand. It may well be his memory of his interpretation of someone else's memory of their interpretation of what the GoHH said.

I doubt it was Barristans own interpretation of what she said. Barristan wasn't a KG knight during the reign of Aegon V. So he heard about it after he joined the KG, and what he heard was most likely the interpretation of the prophecy that was going around in the Red Keep.

Edit: And Happy New year, of course!! :D

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It doesn't matter what he thought. Be it that he was tptwp or that he had to conquer Westeros in his family's name to fulfill something from Signs and Portents or his own visions. What matters is that he did manage to turn Targs into royalty...For a while at least. (oh, the sweet irony of asoiaf) So Jon (if Rhaegar married Lyanna), fAegon (if real and without f) and Dany can be considered princes and a princess.

Did I say they couldn't?

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Did I say they couldn't?

And I imagine if Aegon the Conqueror met Jon Snow, he would be surprised at how different he would be compared to the rest of his descendants, especially when it comes to much of Jon's customs and practices.

Wherea Aegon and the Targaryen dynasty used headsmen to carry out executions or letting dragons eat traitors, Jon prefers to do them himself, in line with the First Men custom of having the person who passes the sentence doing the dirty work.

And where Aegon married his sisters, he would be flabbergasted to see Jon, a Old Gods follower, reject the incest as abhorrent, and choose exogamy instead.

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I don't know if he can, maybe he can get over the incest, but the children are going to haunt him forever. You got Bran but mostly Rhaegar's kids, that's his true nightmare. Wonder what he is going to think about FAegon? You know something is going to come out about Jaime and those kids like maybe the little girl was calling for him when she was pulled from under the bed or something like that, Martin loves to make characters suffer and that would be a dagger to the heart for him. Or his reactions to Dany or Jon.

Jaimie continues to trouble me despite his redemption arc.

And what an irony it is that Jaimie should have been trusted to guard Rhaegars children when his own father had them murdered, and he himself went on to attempt the murder of his hosts son.

It feels like he has as much rot in him as Cersei though now he is putting up a good fight against it. He said himself that he didn't even have any feelings for his children with Cersei which of course is another irony that his own daughter was almost murdered by Darkstar.

I'm beginning to wonder if he own dreams aren't skewed. Do we know for sure that Rhaegar left his family in Jaimies hands, or was that a fever dream based upon his underlying guilt about the part his father played in killing Rhaegars children?

And I imagine if Aegon the Conqueror met Jon Snow, he would be surprised at how different he would be compared to the rest of his descendants, especially when it comes to much of Jon's customs and practices.

Wherea Aegon and the Targaryen dynasty used headsmen to carry out executions or letting dragons eat traitors, Jon prefers to do them himself, in line with the First Men custom of having the person who passes the sentence doing the dirty work.

And where Aegon married his sisters, he would be flabbergasted to see Jon, a Old Gods follower, reject the incest as abhorrent, and choose exogamy instead.

That meeting would be interesting indeed.

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I think that's possible. I tend to think though that the prophecy really is very old and that Daenys, if she did anything, may have narrowed it down to their family like the Ghost narrowed it down to Aerys and Rhaella's specific line. It's also possible that Aegon landed when and how he did because HE thought he was fulfilling some prophecy. That would be a way to connect the Targaryen sigil/history to the "dragon has three heads" thing, something that has yet to be convincingly done. Of course, there's the fact that if Aegon thought he fulfilled this prophecy, he was wrong, which throws the whole connection into doubt again.

This is one of the reasons I still hold out hope for my geographical take on the "dragon has three heads" question. Aegon and his sisters only conquered two of the three sections of the continent of Westeros. Not to mention, there were plenty of other dragon riders up until the Dance.

On top of that, it would fit hand in glove with the one dragon, three heads interpretation. Where you would have one king ruling over three (kingdoms?) distinct pieces of land. Though I can't say if it is more likely, it is a more tangible version of the three heads-as-aspects than I am aware of.

There are some intriguing clues, imo. Thematically, the upcoming WftD2 being one. Where the inhabitants of the LbtW, the Others, will do battle against the humans, who live on the other two sections of the continent. There is also the anthropomorphizing of Westeros that GRRM has done; the God's Eye, Isle of Faces, the Fingers, the (broken) Arm of Dorne, and most notably the section of land that connects the North and the 'South' is called the Neck.

In case you were thinking that this shameless plug was off topic, not so fast. ;) I would direct your attention back to our favorite former location, the Tower of Joy. Because during Ned's fever dream he tells us: They were seven, facing three. Almost like a showdown between the past/present and future. So, I wonder if this couldn't possibly tie in to something I mentioned two paragraphs up; i.e., that Jon is meant to become king of the entire continent of Westeros, not just Dorne to the Wall. And that it's even possible that the 7K might become known as the Three Kingdoms: the 'South', North and LbtW. Further, if you take a look at a map of Westeros, it looks to me like it's possible that the three sections could end up being separated by water. Consider how narrow the lands of the Neck and the Wall are compared to the rest of the continent.

Getting back to the ToJ, you have Jon's interests being represented by three, while the status quo – not in dynastic terms, mind you – is represented by Ned's seven. That day the seven won, and the institution of the 7K remained in tact. Perhaps when Jon finally 'wins' the 7K will cease and we will see the formation of the 3K, or the kingdom, whatever it is called, will be comprised of three bodies of land, each separated from each other by water.

“There must be one more. ... The dragon has three heads.”

---

Happy New Year! :cheers:

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This is one of the reasons I still hold out hope for my geographical take on the "dragon has three heads" question. Aegon and his sisters only conquered two of the three sections of the continent of Westeros. Not to mention, there were plenty of other dragon riders up until the Dance.

On top of that, it would fit hand in glove with the one dragon, three heads interpretation. Where you would have one king ruling over three (kingdoms?) distinct pieces of land. Though I can't say if it is more likely, it is a more tangible version of the three heads-as-aspects than I am aware of.

There are some intriguing clues, imo. Thematically, the upcoming WftD2 being one. Where the inhabitants of the LbtW, the Others, will do battle against the humans, who live on the other two sections of the continent. There is also the anthropomorphizing of Westeros that GRRM has done; the God's Eye, Isle of Faces, the Fingers, the (broken) Arm of Dorne, and most notably the section of land that connects the North and the 'South' is called the Neck.

In case you were thinking that this shameless plug was off topic, not so fast. ;) I would direct your attention back to our favorite former location, the Tower of Joy. Because during Ned's fever dream he tells us: They were seven, facing three. Almost like a showdown between the past/present and future. So, I wonder if this couldn't possibly tie in to something I mentioned two paragraphs up; i.e., that Jon is meant to become king of the entire continent of Westeros, not just Dorne to the Wall. And that it's even possible that the 7K might become known as the Three Kingdoms: the 'South', North and LbtW. Further, if you take a look at a map of Westeros, it looks to me like it's possible that the three sections could end up being separated by water. Consider how narrow the lands of the Neck and the Wall are compared to the rest of the continent.

Getting back to the ToJ, you have Jon's interests being represented by three, while the status quo not in dynastic terms, mind you is represented by Ned's seven. That day the seven won, and the institution of the 7K remained in tact. Perhaps when Jon finally 'wins' the 7K will cease and we will see the formation of the 3K, or the kingdom, whatever it is called, will be comprised of three bodies of land, each separated from each other by water.

There must be one more. ... The dragon has three heads.

---

Happy New Year! :cheers:

Love it!
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