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Small Questions v 10020


Stubby

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"When the food had been cleared away, the queen solemnly presented Joff with the wifes cloak that he would drape over Margaerys shoulders. It is the cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen, the same cloak my mother Lady Joanna wore when wed to my lord father."

It sounds to me that she means the cloak that the husband drapes around his wive's shoulders when he takes her under his protection - so it is supposed to bear his colours. Tywin and Robert are from different Houses, so they can't be using the same cloak.

I'm reading it the opposite way.

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I'm reading it the opposite way.

"When the food had been cleared away, the queen solemnly presented Joff with the wifes cloak that he would drape over Margaerys shoulders. It is the cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen, the same cloak my mother Lady Joanna wore when wed to my lord father."

"Mace Tyrell removed his daughters maiden cloak tenderly..."

I think this pretty much spells it out. The maiden cloak bears the colors of the bride's father, the wife's cloak - of the groom.

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While it indeed seems odd that Robert and Tywin would use the same cloak, that is the impression I'm getting from the text. Perhaps Cersei insisted? Or when she says, "the same cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen" maybe she actually means it was the cloak she wore at the start of the ceremony which was then removed and replaced with a Baratheon one. The second possibility would make far more sense...

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Or when she says, "the same cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen" maybe she actually means it was the cloak she wore at the start of the ceremony which was then removed and replaced with a Baratheon one. The second possibility would make far more sense...

Then she would mean her maiden's cloak - but then why is she trying to pass a Lannister maiden cloak for a Tyrell girl? Or for a Baratheon wife's cloak?

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While it indeed seems odd that Robert and Tywin would use the same cloak, that is the impression I'm getting from the text. Perhaps Cersei insisted? Or when she says, "the same cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen" maybe she actually means it was the cloak she wore at the start of the ceremony which was then removed and replaced with a Baratheon one. The second possibility would make far more sense...

Yes. This.

"When the food had been cleared away, the queen solemnly presented Joff with the wifes cloak that he would drape over Margaerys shoulders. It is the cloak I donned when Robert took me for his queen, the same cloak my mother Lady Joanna wore when wed to my lord father."

"Mace Tyrell removed his daughters maiden cloak tenderly..."

I think this pretty much spells it out. The maiden cloak bears the colors of the bride's father, the wife's cloak - of the groom.

This does not contradict what Stannis and I are saying. The cloak that Joff would drape over Marg's shoulders is the same cloak that Cersei and Joanna wore at the beginning of their wedding ceremonies.

By tradition Joff absolutely should have covered Marg in a Baratheon cloak, but Lannisters gonna Lannister.

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Then she would mean her maiden's cloak - but then why is she trying to pass a Lannister maiden cloak for a Tyrell girl? Or for a Baratheon wife's cloak?

Because she considers Joffrey to be a Lannister, not a Baratheon. It's like when she said Tommen's father ruled the lists, thinking of Jaime instead of Robert.

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Because she considers Joffrey to be a Lannister, not a Baratheon. It's like when she said Tommen's father ruled the lists, thinking of Jaime instead of Robert.

She knows he's a Lannister, but he doesn't. And the Lannisters don't sit the Iron Throne, the Baratheons do.

And there already are rumors going around that Joffrey is a Lannister bastard.

It seems like a dumb move.

Or maybe a "Renly's eyes" type of mistake on GRRM's part?

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She knows he's a Lannister, but he doesn't. And the Lannisters don't sit the Iron Throne, the Baratheons do.

And there already are rumors going around that Joffrey is a Lannister bastard.

It seems like a dumb move.

Or maybe a "Renly's eyes" type of mistake on GRRM's part?

Yes, yes it is. This is Cersei we're talking about, remember? ;)
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Yes, yes it is. This is Cersei we're talking about, remember? ;)

I agree!

Also, getting back to the quote about the Lannister cloak at Tywin & Joanna's wedding... it's interesting if you remember that both Tywin and Joanna are Lannisters, so that might actually be a prime answer to the original question.

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One issue that might be causing confusion here is the respective natures of the maiden and wife cloaks. I don't think there's any difference between the two, except that the maiden's cloak bears the colors of her house, while the wife's cloak bears the colors of the groom's house. In other words, both are just really nice cloaks, each designed to represent the houses involved in the union.



Clearly there was an exception to the standard procedure, as Joff presented Marg with a Lannister cloak.


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Do we have a "samll theories" thread or anything like that going? I am looking for somewhere to post an idea I have that doesnt really amount to a new post (IMO)

Ask questioms to flesh it out here and then start a new thread.
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One issue that might be causing confusion here is the respective natures of the maiden and wife cloaks. I don't think there's any difference between the two, except that the maiden's cloak bears the colors of her house, while the wife's cloak bears the colors of the groom's house. In other words, both are just really nice cloaks, each designed to represent the houses involved in the union.

Clearly there was an exception to the standard procedure, as Joff presented Marg with a Lannister cloak.

Perhaps the Tyrells didn't complain about the Lannister cloak then, because Tywin was Hand. But when Marg wed Tommen, there was only Cersei, and they were absolutely not afraid of Cersei.

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Hey, all. I've enjoyed reading many of your posts and am glad to be on the forum!



My question is, do we have much indication that the Andals and First Men were any different phenotypically? I know they're both, broadly speaking, what we'd recognized as European, but is there any indication that there were/are differences in things like height, skin tone, hair color, etc.?


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I thought they were similar in appearances, seeing as there are different houses that still trace their roots to either civilization who do not appear too different in features. I always thought that the main difference between the two was in the technology they had and used, similar to RL civilizations in the bronze vs iron ages, imo


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