Role in WoW: Jon Snow (Spoilers):

[Ours if the Fury]

Okay, i just wanted to break down the number of possibilities ahead for Jon snow in the next book…

At the current time there are four major possible outcomes…

A): Jon dies, and he is then resurrected by Lady Melisandre, and becomes Azor Ahai reborn, and then goes on to fight the others with Dany. But what happens in between? does he meet Howland?

B. Jon isn't dead, he has survived his brisk with death but is in a very bad condition, and then melisandre continues to tell him of the events she see's in the fires… What happens next?

C): He survives and heals, and then goes out and fights the remaining boltons and frees (assuming Stannis wins the battle of ice and is alive), and then whislt doing this meets with Howland reed and finds out the truth (based on the theory of R+L=J).

or

D): he is actually dead and stays dead…

What does everyone else think?

if you believe their could be other alternatives please add them, and if you feel like their is something i missed lets discuss it !!!!!

i would love to hear lots of feedback!!!

[Fanless Mace]

You left out one semi-plausible scenario - "Jon" dies, but wargs in to Ghost, and plays a key role as a dire wolf, not as a human. I don't see how this fits in with R+L=J, so I think it's doubtful for the longterm, but I think in A-C in the OP, there is a warg interregnum with Jon in Ghost before Jon arises from a healing bed or from the dead.

[Ours if the Fury]

You left out one semi-plausible scenario - "Jon" dies, but wargs in to Ghost, and plays a key role as a dire wolf, not as a human. I don't see how this fits in with R+L=J, so I think it's doubtful for the longterm, but I think in A-C in the OP, there is a warg interregnum with Jon in Ghost before Jon arises from a healing bed or from the dead.

I know lots of people think he will but i honestly don't see him warning into ghost for a long period of time, i think it will be glimpses…

[ladytiger]

You left out one semi-plausible scenario - "Jon" dies, but wargs in to Ghost, and plays a key role as a dire wolf, not as a human. I don't see how this fits in with R+L=J, so I think it's doubtful for the longterm, but I think in A-C in the OP, there is a warg interregnum with Jon in Ghost before Jon arises from a healing bed or from the dead.

Basically sums up my thoughts. I don't think he'll stay in Ghost for too long; maybe 1 or 2 POV chapters tops as Ghost. I think he'll come back into Jon form around 1/3 of the way through TWoW.

Also, there's a big possibility that Val could bring him back. There's a theory that she and her sister Dalla were priestesses of the Old Gods.

[Ours if the Fury]

Basically sums up my thoughts. I don't think he'll stay in Ghost for too long; maybe 1 or 2 POV chapters tops as Ghost. I think he'll come back into Jon form around 1/3 of the way through TWoW.

Also, there's a big possibility that Val could bring him back. There's a theory that she and her sister Dalla were priestesses of the Old Gods.

But then that doesn't tie in with Jon being Azor Ahai Reborn, sorry if i spelt that wrong i havent got the book on me

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

The passage that always got me was when Mel looks into the fire when she is at the wall and asks to see Azor Ahai but only sees Jon Snow's face...I always took that to be pretty compelling that Jon was indeed AA and that Mel was going to have a part in it.

I also think it makes sense from the standpoint of how GRRM kind of toys around with the character of Mel...It's obvious that she has powers and that they work sometimes, but then other times they abandon her or she misinterprets the fires (I think she even admits this in one of the chapters, or discusses how it's easy to do)...So I feel like it's a good twist that she thinks Stannis is AA and looks into the fire trying to see his future, sees Jon, but can't put it together and so is a little blinded by her own weak interpretations.

But...as we see at the end of the books, R'llor followers seem to be getting waaaay stronger and strange things are happening, so I also think it would be fitting if in WOW, Mel's power of insight and fire reading gets better and is able to take part in Jon coming into his full power as AA.

[I Know I Know HoHoHoooo]

But then that doesn't tie in with Jon being Azor Ahai Reborn, sorry if i spelt that wrong i havent got the book on me

The Azor Ahai prophecy isn't tied together with R'hllor...Mel is just a follower of R'hllor and believes that Stannis is Azor Ahai come again, but that doesn't mean that if AA were to be reborn that it would necessarily have anything to do with R'hllor or any of his followers (so even if Val and the Old Gods had part in it, it still works).

[Ours if the Fury]

The passage that always got me was when Mel looks into the fire when she is at the wall and asks to see Azor Ahai but only sees Jon Snow's face...I always took that to be pretty compelling that Jon was indeed AA and that Mel was going to have a part in it.

I also think it makes sense from the standpoint of how GRRM kind of toys around with the character of Mel...It's obvious that she has powers and that they work sometimes, but then other times they abandon her or she misinterprets the fires (I think she even admits this in one of the chapters, or discusses how it's easy to do)...So I feel like it's a good twist that she thinks Stannis is AA and looks into the fire trying to see his future, sees Jon, but can't put it together and so is a little blinded by her own weak interpretations.

But...as we see at the end of the books, R'llor followers seem to be getting waaaay stronger and strange things are happening, so I also think it would be fitting if in WOW, Mel's power of insight and fire reading gets better and is able to take part in Jon coming into his full power as AA.

Thankyou for this insight !!!, this is very well thought out!!

[WeaselPie]

1). Jon is mortally wounded. His consciousness wargs into Ghost. He's put into Ice Storage until someone like Thoros can res him. UnJon or Beric Jon.

2). Jon is mortally wounded. His consciousness wargs into Ghost. He's put into Ice Storage. Bran wargs Ghost too and/or skinchanges Jon.

3). Etc. see above, Jon skinchanges a White Walker

4). Etc. see above. Mel uses blood magic to heal Jon's mortal wounds. He becomes like Drogo. See more above.

5). Jon is dead.

6). It's just a flesh wound.

My preference is 2. We already have precedence for Bran skinchanging an already occupied animal, and we already have Bran skinchanging a human (no easy task - see Varamyr's struggle). So we either have Jon and Bran co-existing in Ghost, or we have Jon and Bran coexisting inside Jon. And later possibly both riding and skinchanging a dragon.

[evita mgfs]

I believe Jon wargs Ghost - I believe he does so in his final POV in ADwD. This progression for Jon is logical, and now Jon will follow the paths taken by Bran and Arya: warg with direwolf.

Because Bran is the most powerful greenseer in the history of the weirwood trees, he will be able to smooth Jon's transition into his wolf.

I imagine there will be a little conflict between Jon and his wolf instinct - but I also think that Mormont's raven has been mentioned quite frequently in Jon's POV. When Ghost flees the armory through the raven's window, he will land in drifted snow against the building. Mormont's raven and Ghost will be together -and the raven "may be" skinchanged by BR - I think Bran will be able to access Jon through Ghost, who is like white bark made wolf flesh - a physical, symbolic representation of a weirwood.

Martin may have Ghost come upon Jon Snow's body, and Ghost may protect Jon until a friend moves Jon from the scene. However, I think it more likely that Bran will make his presence known to the readers if none of the characters, just as Bran appears in "The Prince of Winterfell" from ADwD as the face in the weirwood, the murder of ravens, the engulfing grey mists, in the wind in the leaves, and in the stone foundation of WF itself.

I also think that Jon and Ghost are ONE - and they are the OLD GODS of the North. It is unlikely that Bran will allow another to heal his brother. I still remember Jon kissing Bran's lips before Jon left WF for the Wall. Martin fully establishes Bran's high regard and deep affection for his bastard brother Jon.

Jon will not need to travel to the Cave of Skulls. Through Ghost, Bran will visit his dreams - maybe Ghost and the raven will go to the grove of nine weirwoods where Jon took his NW vows. I think this will be a symbolic location.

I even wonder if Bran has not somehow witnessed Jon's fall - and if so, what is the scope and potential of his magic powers? How will Bran execute justice? - and what type of earth magic will be able to access?

[Ours if the Fury]

I believe Jon wargs Ghost - I believe he does so in his final POV in ADwD. This progression for Jon is logical, and now Jon will follow the paths taken by Bran and Arya: warg with direwolf.

Because Bran is the most powerful greenseer in the history of the weirwood trees, he will be able to smooth Jon's transition into his wolf.

I imagine there will be a little conflict between Jon and his wolf instinct - but I also think that Mormont's raven has been mentioned quite frequently in Jon's POV. When Ghost flees the armory through the raven's window, he will land in drifted snow against the building. Mormont's raven and Ghost will be together -and the raven "may be" skinchanged by BR - I think Bran will be able to access Jon through Ghost, who is like white bark made wolf flesh - a physical, symbolic representation of a weirwood.

Martin may have Ghost come upon Jon Snow's body, and Ghost may protect Jon until a friend moves Jon from the scene. However, I think it more likely that Bran will make his presence known to the readers if none of the characters, just as Bran appears in "The Prince of Winterfell" from ADwD as the face in the weirwood, the murder of ravens, the engulfing grey mists, in the wind in the leaves, and in the stone foundation of WF itself.

I also think that Jon and Ghost are ONE - and they are the OLD GODS of the North. It is unlikely that Bran will allow another to heal his brother. I still remember Jon kissing Bran's lips before Jon left WF for the Wall. Martin fully establishes Bran's high regard and deep affection for his bastard brother Jon.

Jon will not need to travel to the Cave of Skulls. Through Ghost, Bran will visit his dreams - maybe Ghost and the raven will go to the grove of nine weirwoods where Jon took his NW vows. I think this will be a symbolic location.

I even wonder if Bran has not somehow witnessed Jon's fall - and if so, what is the scope and potential of his magic powers? How will Bran execute justice? - and what type of earth magic will be able to access?

I like this outlook !!!

Option E) has been made!!

[Skoboe]

I think the other events happening at the same time Jon gets ambushed are important in considering what happens next;

- Wun Wun losing his shit for some unknown reason

- Jon's attackers moving like they were puppets on a string...Marsh crying as he pumped out a cliche, Wik(?) throwing his hands up as if to say 'wasn't me'

- Jon unable to move his hand to defend himself

- The apparent absence of Melisandre

I say 'apparent absence' because everyones actions for those few moments suggest some sort of mass glamour being at play.

If Mel wants Jon's undivided loyalty for whatever master scheme she is working on, what better way to get that than to orchestrate an assassination then play the good guy and bring him back to life?

[evita mgfs]

I always respond to Jon speculation threads - I never get tired of it. I also really think Martin is a brilliant organizer, and AGoT IS Martin's "game plan" for the series.

On rereads, the elements of foreshadowing, and "preplanning" in regards to Martin's craft, are pure genius - and in some cases, sassy Martin-like gags. For instance, Bran recalls Theon jesting about Hodor only being able to say "HODOR". Karma's a bitch: Theon says, paraphrase 'He sure knows his own name - no one can doubt that." This foreshadows Theon learning his new name: "Reek", and it brings to mind Theon trying to get Jeyne Poole to remember HER name: Arya.

Also, when Theon inspects Jon's white direwolf, he says, "A freak", which, ironically, rhymes with Reek.

Bran associates "faces" with masks that can be removed and returned: Bran says Ned takes off Father's face to don the face of Lord Stark of WF. Oh - these are but a few of many examples in each POV.

With that said, Martin is a masterful storyteller who is not going to jeopardize such a well-crafted "song" with bizarre, unfamiliar, unlikely events occurring. I, personally, have been waiting for Jon to warg Ghost. I would be disappointed if Martin does not include a Ghost POV. I enjoy when Martin writes from Summer's POV in Bran's narratives, so I am sure Martin will not disappoint readers who, I think, expect this to happen - and have been lead to "believe" this will happen. Actually, I think Jon's "caesaring" has been Jon's fate from the beginning - hints lurk in AGoT.

Jon's "fate" will be one of several ways Martin will reveal Bran's powers - I think Bran's primary goal will be to bring the litter together - in a magical way that only Martin can write with flare.

[Ours if the Fury]

I always respond to Jon speculation threads - I never get tired of it. I also really think Martin is a brilliant organizer, and AGoT IS Martin's "game plan" for the series.

On rereads, the elements of foreshadowing, and "preplanning" in regards to Martin's craft, are pure genius - and in some cases, sassy Martin-like gags. For instance, Bran recalls Theon jesting about Hodor only being able to say "HODOR". Karma's a bitch: Theon says, paraphrase 'He sure knows his own name - no one can doubt that." This foreshadows Theon learning his new name: "Reek", and it brings to mind Theon trying to get Jeyne Poole to remember HER name: Arya.

Also, when Theon inspects Jon's white direwolf, he says, "A freak", which, ironically, rhymes with Reek.

Bran associates "faces" with masks that can be removed and returned: Bran says Ned takes off Father's face to don the face of Lord Stark of WF. Oh - these are but a few of many examples in each POV.

With that said, Martin is a masterful storyteller who is not going to jeopardize such a well-crafted "song" with bizarre, unfamiliar, unlikely events occurring. I, personally, have been waiting for Jon to warg Ghost. I would be disappointed if Martin does not include a Ghost POV. I enjoy when Martin writes from Summer's POV in Bran's narratives, so I am sure Martin will not disappoint readers who, I think, expect this to happen - and have been lead to "believe" this will happen. Actually, I think Jon's "caesaring" has been Jon's fate from the beginning - hints lurk in AGoT.

Jon's "fate" will be one of several ways Martin will reveal Bran's powers - I think Bran's primary goal will be to bring the litter together - in a magical way that only Martin can write with flare.

Lovely insight !!!

I am taken aback by the amount of believers to the warg into ghost theory!!!

[Ours if the Fury]

With theory A, if he does find out about his heritage, do you think him and dany will get married or do you think Dany will die in the battle against the others, and then Jon ascends the throne himself???

[WeaselPie]

I always respond to Jon speculation threads - I never get tired of it. I also really think Martin is a brilliant organizer, and AGoT IS Martin's "game plan" for the series.

On rereads, the elements of foreshadowing, and "preplanning" in regards to Martin's craft, are pure genius - and in some cases, sassy Martin-like gags. For instance, Bran recalls Theon jesting about Hodor only being able to say "HODOR". Karma's a bitch: Theon says, paraphrase 'He sure knows his own name - no one can doubt that." This foreshadows Theon learning his new name: "Reek", and it brings to mind Theon trying to get Jeyne Poole to remember HER name: Arya.

Also, when Theon inspects Jon's white direwolf, he says, "A freak", which, ironically, rhymes with Reek.

Bran associates "faces" with masks that can be removed and returned: Bran says Ned takes off Father's face to don the face of Lord Stark of WF. Oh - these are but a few of many examples in each POV.

With that said, Martin is a masterful storyteller who is not going to jeopardize such a well-crafted "song" with bizarre, unfamiliar, unlikely events occurring. I, personally, have been waiting for Jon to warg Ghost. I would be disappointed if Martin does not include a Ghost POV. I enjoy when Martin writes from Summer's POV in Bran's narratives, so I am sure Martin will not disappoint readers who, I think, expect this to happen - and have been lead to "believe" this will happen. Actually, I think Jon's "caesaring" has been Jon's fate from the beginning - hints lurk in AGoT.

Jon's "fate" will be one of several ways Martin will reveal Bran's powers - I think Bran's primary goal will be to bring the litter together - in a magical way that only Martin can write with flare.

Elegantly stated and I agree.

[LovinRC]

Jon has so many friends with the wildings, I hope they come to his rescue. Wishing that he is wounded, saved by Val, Mel, anyone, and comes back from his injuries, not as unJon. Would love the drunk giant to crush the shit out of everyone that planned the crap against Jon, including Stannis' bitch queeen but not Shereen. Want happiness for that girl.

Once Jon is back, he puts a world of hurt on the south and those that destroyed his family. Jon is a good strategist and new to the game but good at it. His plan against the wildings, his advice to Stannis, paper shield, blah blah blah. No one in the south takes him as a serious threat, so I want Jon, the real Jon back, and pissed.

[Ours if the Fury]

Jon has so many friends with the wildings, I hope they come to his rescue. Wishing that he is wounded, saved by Val, Mel, anyone, and comes back from his injuries, not as unJon. Would love the drunk giant to crush the shit out of everyone that planned the crap against Jon, including Stannis' bitch queeen but not Shereen. Want happiness for that girl.

Once Jon is back, he puts a world of hurt on the south and those that destroyed his family. Jon is a good strategist and new to the game but good at it. His plan against the wildings, his advice to Stannis, paper shield, blah blah blah. No one in the south takes him as a serious threat, so I want Jon, the real Jon back, and pissed.

This can only happen if he finds out about his heritage, which is why i assume Howland will make his long awaited appearance in the next book

[WeaselPie]

This can only happen if he finds out about his heritage, which is why i assume Howland will make his long awaited appearance in the next book

No, it can happen whether or not Jon ever finds out who his parents were.

LovinRC's statement is a good one, and it can stand alone, regardless.

[Ours if the Fury]

No, it can happen whether or not Jon ever finds out who his parents were.

LovinRC's statement is a good one, and it can stand alone, regardless.

But if i doesnt he has no real reason to travel that far south, he may go as far as winterfell… but no further…