The Reveal of FAegon's True Identity

[raegal_targaryen]

fire eater i just gotta say u are a freaking genius, u make bullishit look good, and u even call true :D

[Lord Varys]

I came up with that very theory shortly after ADwD came out. It's very likely that the Tattered Prince never wanted to become Prince of Pentos (since that is a stupid post) but was in fact forced to leave Pentos because he opposed Illyrio's rise to power (Varys may have recovered stuff on him which forced him into exile).

I also very much doubt that the Tattered Prince truly wants Pentos. That's just a pretext hiding his true agenda. He came all the way to Slaver's Bay not to fight Daenerys, he came to broker a deal with her. This is revealed when Barristan tells Dany that Pretty Meris claimed to have come as the Tattered Prince's secret envoy. That may have been the case - but the fact that Quentyn revealed that the Windblown were not actually defecting to Dany's cause made it impossible for Meris to approach Dany herself.

If there is a second Dance, then Dany has to consider Aegon VI Targaryen a fake. She can only consider him as fake before she has met him if she gets any evidence. I very much doubt that the Tattered Prince can produce such evidence, but he may indeed know something about Varys and Illyrio's past.

Tyrion alone has no evidence whatsoever that Aegon is fake. And even with the Tattered Prince there doesn't have to be war. If there is a second Dance in the end then because negotiations between Aegon and Dany. I could even imagine that this Dance is going to be no open war but a struggle for supremacy between husband and wife. If the Others invade the South before Dany gets to Westeros then a political marriage between King Aegon VI and Princess Daenerys may be a political necessity. But this does not mean that Dany's and Aegon's followers will like this situation one bit.

[PrimeRhaegar]

Then what will Dany and Tyrion have to work with to believe that Aegon is fake?

Dany will have to have a valid reason against Aegon to start the second Dance.

since when does dany need a valid reason to do something. If she wants to go to war with egon and i don't see anything stopping her from doing so. Tyrion i don't think he even cares if aegon is fake or not. Still i do agree with you i wis martin will make it clear his identity, but i just feel he won't.

[Lord Varys]

Aegon (supposedly) being a Blackfyre is no good reason for Dany to oppose him. She would have to need proof for that, and even with the Tattered Prince's statement she would just have the word of some guy (although he could be a very prominent guy considering that we still have no clue who he actually is).

Daenerys also knows that she owes all she has and is to Illyrio Mopatis. He gave her the dragon eggs, after all. And she is very aware of this fact. The Tattered Prince's claims to Pentos is the reason why she does not want to speak to him or Meris. She knows that he owes Illyrio a lot. Illyrio can also always say that his allegiance was to the cause of House Targaryen, rather than to her or her brother personally. The end justifies the means, that's a saying Dany is very familiar with. If Aegon is the real deal then it was good that Illyrio hid him, Dany would see that. And if Aegon is indeed Aegon VI Targaryen then Daenerys Targaryen has no good claim to the Iron Throne. This might indeed vex her, especially if she finds out about that rather late. But then she would still have the option to force her nephew into a political marriage.

The same could work if Dany was treating with an Aegon Targaryen she believed to be Aegon Mopatis. But in such a scenario Aegon would be reduced to the status of Prince Consort to Queen Daenerys I Targaryen. That may be too much for Aegon. But I still see an opportunity that the two dragon lines might be reunited in Aegon and Daenerys if the political circumstances demand such a union. No one ever said that the second Dance will be fought between Daenerys and Aegon.

By the way: I think if there is indeed something fishy about Aegon's heritage then this will not become public knowledge through a leak but may be revealed to the reader and perhaps to the public by Aegon himself. I started a thread shortly after the publication of ADwD what might happen if Aegon learned that he was not actually Rhaegar's son. I'm inclined to believe that GRRM is saving that kind of story for Aegon (it was somewhat irritating that he is apparently not going down that road with Cersei's children). It's easily imaginable that Aegon (or Jon Connington) is going to overhear a conversation between Varys and Illyrio after he has taken KL. It will be very interesting to see how Aegon will react to such a revelation. It may even be that Illyrio tells him the truth. He promised he would join the gang in Westeros. For what reason would Illyrio come to Westeros if not to be by his son's side after he has taken the Iron Throne? That is, if we assume that he is his son.

[Fire Eater]

Aegon (supposedly) being a Blackfyre is no good reason for Dany to oppose him. She would have to need proof for that, and even with the Tattered Prince's statement she would just have the word of some guy (although he could be a very prominent guy considering that we still have no clue who he actually is).

Aegon is trying to steal her throne, that is reason enough to oppose him. They don't birth certificates or DNA scans, and they only thing they have to go on is someone's word, like Stannis.

Daenerys also knows that she owes all she has and is to Illyrio Mopatis. He gave her the dragon eggs, after all. And she is very aware of this fact. The Tattered Prince's claims to Pentos is the reason why she does not want to speak to him or Meris. She knows that he owes Illyrio a lot. Illyrio can also always say that his allegiance was to the cause of House Targaryen, rather than to her or her brother personally. The end justifies the means, that's a saying Dany is very familiar with.

This is same Illyrio who is putting fAegon on the IT. He was given more care than Dany or Viserys ever were. I doubt she will take that well.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think it will be explicitly revealed at least to one character (my guess is Arya posing as one of Varys's little birds), otherwise how else are we going to be surprised that Blackfyres have actually been active this whole time when we had been deceived into thinking them long dead?

I think the Blackfyre angle could easily be left as an easter egg for the more attentive fans. I'd argue it's already been used in such a way; most of the Blackfye info we have comes from the D&E novellas, which will only be sought out by the more dedicated readership.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

By the way: I think if there is indeed something fishy about Aegon's heritage then this will not become public knowledge through a leak but may be revealed to the reader and perhaps to the public by Aegon himself. I started a thread shortly after the publication of ADwD what might happen if Aegon learned that he was not actually Rhaegar's son. I'm inclined to believe that GRRM is saving that kind of story for Aegon (it was somewhat irritating that he is apparently not going down that road with Cersei's children). It's easily imaginable that Aegon (or Jon Connington) is going to overhear a conversation between Varys and Illyrio after he has taken KL. It will be very interesting to see how Aegon will react to such a revelation. It may even be that Illyrio tells him the truth. He promised he would join the gang in Westeros. For what reason would Illyrio come to Westeros if not to be by his son's side after he has taken the Iron Throne? That is, if we assume that he is his son.

This is a very interesting idea. If Aegon is fake, I would love to see it explored from his point of view (or by him, through the other novels POVs, actually, LOL). It would make an interesting contrast to Cersei and Jaime's children, too. I think if Aegon's identity is revealed to be fake it might hit Jon Connington harder than the boy. It would be interesting to see how each would feel about it, and what actions they would take once they knew. I do think the boy genuinely believes he is Rhaegar and Elia's son Aegon, but I also think he seems pretty well adjusted, he may just take it better than those around him, supporting the claim.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

This is same Illyrio who is putting fAegon on the IT. He was given more care than Dany or Viserys ever were. I doubt she will take that well.

Regarldess of who Aegon is.........I'm not sure it would be fair to contrast the treatment her and Viserys received from Illyrio with the treatment the boy called Aegon received. Dany and Viserys started out in the care of Darry, it's not as if we have evidence that Illyrio and or Varys had much involvement in Dany and Viserys life before they showed up in Pentos, at least not directly. Now, if he is Illyrio's son, yes, that makes for looking at it from a different angle and with more bias on Illyrio's part.

[Fire Eater]

Regarldess of who Aegon is.........I'm not sure it would be fair to contrast the treatment her and Viserys received from Illyrio with the treatment the boy called Aegon received. Dany and Viserys started out in the care of Darry, it's not as if we have evidence that Illyrio and or Varys had much involvement in Dany and Viserys life before they showed up in Pentos, at least not directly. Now, if he is Illyrio's son, yes, that makes for looking at it from a different angle and with more bias on Illyrio's part.

Aegon was given protection, training at arms and a lord's education while Dany and Visery were neglected up until the events of AGoT.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Aegon was given protection, training at arms and a lord's education while Dany and Visery were neglected up until the events of AGoT.

If he is Illyrio's son, I would agree, I'm sure that Illyrio was more careful with his upbringing.

But, what I'm saying is, regardless of that, Dany and Viserys were out of the hands of Illyrio before GoT. It's hard for me to blame Illyrio and or Varys for Dany and Viserys early life when they started it out with Darry, and then.....continued on their own. I'm not sure how I can see that is necessarily Illyrio's fault or Illyrio's plan either. Those early years for Dany and Viserys seemed to leave them out of the reach of Illyrio, for good or ill, either way. Maybe, passively, Illyrio wanted it that way, but I can't see those early years as an active plot on Illyrio's part, IMO, anyway. I'm not sure we'll get the answer to this part of the equation either. We may never know if Illyrio, in any way, influenced Dany and Visery's early lives, for good or ill.

[Fire Eater]

If he is Illyrio's son, I would agree, I'm sure that Illyrio was more careful with his upbringing.

But, what I'm saying is, regardless of that, Dany and Viserys were out of the hands of Illyrio before GoT. It's hard for me to blame Illyrio and or Varys for Dany and Viserys early life when they started it out with Darry, and then.....continued on their own. I'm not sure how I can see that is necessarily Illyrio's fault or Illyrio's plan either. Those early years for Dany and Viserys seemed to leave them out of the reach of Illyrio, for good or ill, either way. Maybe, passively, Illyrio wanted it that way, but I can't see those early years as an active plot on Illyrio's part, IMO, anyway. I'm not sure we'll get the answer to this part of the equation either. We may never know if Illyrio, in any way, influenced Dany and Visery's early lives, for good or ill.

He didn't try to contact them after Darry died. If Illyrio was truly loyal to the Targaryens he wold have helped Viserys and Dany out as soon as he heard Darry died and they were homeless.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

I certainly agree that Dany would need to know Aegon is fake before fighting against him. She is the last Dragon, the last Targaryen. Throughout her storyline she has dreamed of "home" and home is synonomous with family IMO. With the loss of her brother Viserys, Dany lost the last member of her family which she did show some sadness over; in the POV after her death we find out that she hasnt truly laughed or been merry since her brother was crowned. So if she were to hear that Aegon, her deceased brother's son, was still alive, I imagine she would want to support him. If she were to find him fake then I can see the Fire and Blood route. but if this just came from a rumour and nothig else, it would need to be a rumour from a trustworthy source; this narrows the list down rather a lot, to people such as Barristan and Missandei etc. Alternatively, if she were told this is such a way as to link with the cloth dragon/mummer's dragon prophecy then I believe she could also believe the claim he is a fake. This opens up a more likely host of candidates to tell her, includig Tatters. However, I personally feel that Dany will recieve the news when she reaches Meereen, from someone who has heard the news second hand that Aegon has seized King's Landing, and has won the love of the Smallfolk who are cheering in the streets for the return of the Dragon. I believe this will come from none other than Marwyn and Quhurru (i still cant remember his name) the captain of the Cinnamon Wind who have heard the news on their journey to Dany, and Marwyn, with the aid of the Glass Candle (I imagine he took it with him) has realised that Aegon is false. Thats my own thwory anyway, although I shall remain open minded

[Lady Fevre Dream]

He didn't try to contact them after Darry died. If Illyrio was truly loyal to the Targaryens he wold have helped Viserys and Dany out as soon as he heard Darry died and they were homeless.

I guess I missed this fact in the books? It's written somewhere that Illyrio not only knew they started out their exile with Darry, but wasn't concerned for them in any way, shape, or form?

ETA: I never said that Illyrio was 'loyal' to the Targs. It just seems hard to do a compare and contrast about their treatment by him and then Aegon's, whether Aegon is a Mopatis or not.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I certainly agree that Dany would need to know Aegon is fake before fighting against him. She is the last Dragon, the last Targaryen. Throughout her storyline she has dreamed of "home" and home is synonomous with family IMO. With the loss of her brother Viserys, Dany lost the last member of her family which she did show some sadness over; in the POV after her death we find out that she hasnt truly laughed or been merry since her brother was crowned. So if she were to hear that Aegon, her deceased brother's son, was still alive, I imagine she would want to support him. If she were to find him fake then I can see the Fire and Blood route. but if this just came from a rumour and nothig else, it would need to be a rumour from a trustworthy source; this narrows the list down rather a lot, to people such as Barristan and Missandei etc. Alternatively, if she were told this is such a way as to link with the cloth dragon/mummer's dragon prophecy then I believe she could also believe the claim he is a fake. This opens up a more likely host of candidates to tell her, includig Tatters. However, I personally feel that Dany will recieve the news when she reaches Meereen, from someone who has heard the news second hand that Aegon has seized King's Landing, and has won the love of the Smallfolk who are cheering in the streets for the return of the Dragon. I believe this will come from none other than Marwyn and Quhurru (i still cant remember his name) the captain of the Cinnamon Wind who have heard the news on their journey to Dany, and Marwyn, with the aid of the Glass Candle (I imagine he took it with him) has realised that Aegon is false. Thats my own thwory anyway, although I shall remain open minded

One thing I just thought of.........suppose Aegon is fake, and Dany gets the news that first there is an Aegon, or someone claiming to be Aegon, then she does get some evidence that the kid isn't the real deal. One thing I would find interesting is if Dany knows and realizes that Young Griff himself is NOT in on the ruse, believes himself to be Aegon, etc., and Dany finally starts to see the manipulation and long term game of Illyrio (should any of his role be known to her in this, whether the kid is his son or not). I'd like to see someone, maybe Dany, realize that the kid himself isn't at fault and instead, punish those who are to blame.

That, of course, is if he is fake, which I think could go either way. I am back to LMAO if we never find out, though. If he dies, we might not find out. The longer his life span is..............the bigger chance we may get the full story, IMO, anyway.

[Veltigar]

snip.

Personally, I'm confident that we'll get pretty specific info about the fact that he's fake quite early on. I don't see the Dany who longs for a home and an identity going to war with the son of the brother she basically worships. She'll need some additional motivation.

When she finds out that she has been played and that Illyrio and Varys are making a mockery out of her beloved brother's memory she'll go in full on rage mode. I think that the Dance 2.0. will be an incredibly bloody war, because Dany would not be able to grant the people who used her brother's memory any form of mercy.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Personally, I'm confident that we'll get pretty specific info about the fact that he's fake quite early on. I don't see the Dany who longs for a home and an identity going to war with the son of the brother she basically worships. She'll need some additional motivation.

When she finds out that she has been played and that Illyrio and Varys are making a mockery out of her beloved brother's memory she'll go in full on rage mode. I think that the Dance 2.0. will be an incredibly bloody war, because Dany would not be able to grant the people who used her brother's memory any form of mercy.

I just had the craziest idea about the Aegon situation and the will we or won't we, readers and books characters alike, find out the truth of the situation. Suppose we do find out the truth, and we find out that the kid (or young man, I'm not sure why I keep thinking of him as The Kid, LOL) is Illyrio's son and born of the female Blackfyre line. I really do think that the young man himself believes he is Aegon, I thought that was pretty clear in the books. I can see why that would be, too, it's a big chance to take if the boy was in on it. But, I just had the funny thought of (F)Aegon sitting the Iron Throne, and his Master of Coin, Illyrio Mopatis.....trying to tell him, Hey, by the way, you really are MY SON, and I am so proud of you, Son!! I think Aegon would think his Fat Friend (as Tyrion knicknamed him) had lost his friggin mind, and not only not believe him, but........feed him to the possible dragon he received out of any deal made with Dany. Anyway, I can see it now......whoever tries to tell Aegon the truth, might just have a hard time convincing him. Jon Con on the other hand, might just take it so bad, he intentionally tries to give all of Westeros Gray Scale.

Really, though, imagine you are this young man Aegon..........who's your Daddy, and who do you WANT for your Daddy, The Legendary Rhaegar Targaryen or The Cheese Monger of Pentos?? :dunno: :lol:

[Fire Eater]

snip

Arianne responds "I heard that if want t know know what guy looks like when he grows older look at his father, and looking at Illyrio, I think Aegon should lay off the cheese, or I'm asking Tyene for a favor."

[grand old duke of stark]

FE's Tattered Prince theory is good, but based on a lot of contingencies. It's certainly plausible.

In the end, I'm convinced we the readers and maybe one or two characters will know whether fAegon is real...or not. Since Tyrion knew he might be fake, it's possible that he, Dany, Barristan etc. can put their heads together and build a pretty good case the boy is an imposter. If so, Dany will oppose him when she arrives in Westeros. Plus, while it's a secondary consideration, Tyrion knowing both Illyrio and Varys and part of their purported backgrounds may deduce the machinations behind their support of Aegon. If so, that is powerful knowledge.

Anyway, without exposing the boy, Dany's likelihood of winning of Westeros is a non-starter. So she must accuse him and probably present a plausible explanation. Even JonCon may believe them, especially if the lad continues his headstrong ways. I think by the time fAegon and Dany fight DoD 2.0 his support will be crumbling.

[Stephen Richter]

The only one who dies is Daario. Who kills him is up for grabs, but I think it will be Victarion or Brown Ben. There will be a three way standoff when vic, barristan & brown ben meet up. Add in the two Red Priest and Tyrion, I think things will be tense but not deadly. The reason Daario dies is because HBO recasted the pretty boy actor for the real skinny boy actor who will be in fact the brown ben/Daario combo character.

[Lord Varys]

If Aegon is real then Viserys and Dany never mattered. It was not Illyrio's or Varys's duty to look out of them (that would be true in any case since neither of them swore an oath to protect Aerys's younger children).

As to the second Dance I'm putting more money on Euron to become Dany's main enemy in this one than on Aegon. If Dragonbinder works then the Greyjoys have a very good chance to claim one or two dragon for their cause. And since Dany is not in Meereen when Victarion gets there it's easily imaginable that either Viserion or Rhaegal (or both) end up under the control of Greyjoy riders. If we assume that Euron is aware of Victarion's plan to outsmart him, and if he has a plan in motion to prevent him from pulling this off, then there is a very good chance that Euron and/or Euron's agents will take the chance to take the dragon(s) without the dragon queen.

If we also assume (as I do) that the Ironborn in Westeros will win a very decisive victory over the Redwyne fleet (either due to Euron's unconventional warfare or due to bad luck) then Euron Greyjoy will become a major threat to whoever controls the Iron Throne simply because he is the only major naval power left in Westeros. If we also assume that Cersei is going to be forced to leave KL (either to the Tyrells fighting Aegon or to Aegon himself) then I can see a political marriage happening between Euron Greyjoy and Cersei Lannister. Especially since Euron would need to make an alliance with at least one powerful great house of Westeros to challenge Aegon. Cersei has always been drawn to the Targaryens, and a dragon-riding Euron could be as close to a 'Targaryen' as she will ever get. They could even make some funny plans for their future incest marriages (for instance, betrothing Myrcella to Euron's unborn heir by Cersei).

I find it very difficult to imagine that Aegon's party will ever get a hold on any of Dany's dragons. That's just very unlikely right now, and cannot happen before Dany and/or parts of her party are arriving in Westeros. Euron has been built up to become a very important player and Moqorro considers him the greatest threat to Daenerys.

I don't see Aegon being able to withstand such an alliance for long, especially not if the Others are finally making their move. He may take KL and win the Iron Throne but he does not have any ships and thus cannot put the Ironborn down. In such a scenario an alliance between Dany and Aegon may be a much better idea than a war, especially if Dany herself would have only one dragon left.