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Why did the Mad King demand Eddard's and Robert's heads?


Nucky Thompson

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It just struck me but Aerys doesn't call for Stannis' head,does he? Yet he wants Ned dead.

With Brandon and Rickard dead, Ned is lord of Winterfell in his own right now. Stannis is not lord of anything. There's your difference.

Obviously Aerys being nuttier than squirrel poo played a part, but I think it's reasonable that someone was feeding that paranoia and/or that he wanted to limit any rebellion in retaliation for the Stark murders.

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With Brandon and Rickard dead, Ned is lord of Winterfell in his own right now. Stannis is not lord of anything. There's your difference.

Obviously Aerys being nuttier than squirrel poo played a part, but I think it's reasonable that someone was feeding that paranoia and/or that he wanted to limit any rebellion in retaliation for the Stark murders.

Well, the moment Aerys has Robert killed, Stannis becomes the new Lord Baratheon. Unless Aerys wanted to take the Baratheon holdings from him. But then, he could (trie to) do the same with Robert, instead of having him killed.

Perhaps Aerys truly had reasons why he asked for Robert and Ned, or he simply had 'reasons'. Who knows how his mind worked.

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Well, the moment Aerys has Robert killed, Stannis becomes the new Lord Baratheon. Unless Aerys wanted to take the Baratheon holdings from him. But then, he could (trie to) do the same with Robert, instead of having him killed.

Perhaps Aerys truly had reasons why he asked for Robert and Ned, or he simply had 'reasons'. Who knows how his mind worked.

But Stannis wasn't the lord at the time; Ned was a lord. That was my point. At the time of the call for the heads, Ned occupies a different political level than Stannis.

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Lets also not forget that Aerys also had Jon Arryn's heir and nephew - Elbert Arryn - killed as well when he accompanied Brandon to Kingslanding.



If he was thinking straight (though he obviously wasnt) he could have ransomed Elberts life against Ned's and Robert's. That would have given Jon some serious turmoil. :dunno:


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But in the end, they weren't "his to torment." He went too far, people got fed up and stood up to him, and he lost. That's the idea. Absolute power is only absolute if you can back it up.

tell that to Caligula has far as him and aerys are concerned everyone was theirs to torment even their family memebers.

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But Stannis wasn't the lord at the time; Ned was a lord. That was my point. At the time of the call for the heads, Ned occupies a different political level than Stannis.

Jon Arryn was The Lord of the Vale, harboring Ned and Robert, close with Ned and Robert, and Areys just slaughtered his family, but he did not call for his head. Just there heads so something is missing in the action, and while crazy it seems an odd choice for a mad king who wanted to burn people. After Ned and Robert comes Benjen and Stannis, was the king going to stop at Just those two. He had just killed The Lord of Winterfell so by your logic he should not be calling for Ned. Noboody from Roberts house was in Brandons party. It may suggest Robert and Ned did something or the King was told they did something.

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But Stannis wasn't the lord at the time; Ned was a lord. That was my point. At the time of the call for the heads, Ned occupies a different political level than Stannis.

Yes, he does.

But once Aerys would have Ned and Robert executed, Stannis would get in the exact same position; a young lord, who could want to avenge his kin. What does Aerys do then? Sends another letter to Stannis, inviting him to dine with him?

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It may suggest Robert and Ned did something or the King was told they did something.

It does'nt mean anything other than that Aerys was crazy as fuck. Ethan Glover was one of Brandon's squires, yet he survived. What of his father? It's said that thier fathers were called and murdered. Was Ethan's father murdered as well? Was he even summoned?

What can that tells us of the Glovers? Not a damn thing. They are a masterly house, hold lands in the Stark's name. Why bother letting him live? What ransom can he bring? What goal can he serve, being locked away? What's the point?

There is'nt one. Aerys was crazy. He actually thought that ordering a LP to kill two of his wards under his protection, in the same letter he just told him that he murdered his nephew, is a good idea. DAFUQ?

To paraphrase Archer:

Do you wants rebellions? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET REBELLIONS.

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It does'nt mean anything other than that Aerys was crazy as fuck. Ethan Glover was one of Brandon's squires, yet he survived. What of his father? It's said that thier fathers were called and murdered. Was Ethan's father murdered as well? Was he even summoned?

What can that tells us of the Glovers? Not a damn thing. They are a masterly house, hold lands in the Stark's name. Why bother letting him live? What ransom can he bring? What goal can he serve, being locked away? What's the point?

There is'nt one. Aerys was crazy. He actually thought that ordering a LP to kill two of his wards under his protection, in the same letter he just told him that he murdered his nephew, is a good idea. DAFUQ?

To paraphrase Archer:

Do you wants rebellions? BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU GET REBELLIONS.

In the end, this.

Calling for the head of two Lords Paramount who have done absolutely nothing against the King, who are Wards to another Lord Paramount and allied to a fourth, is nuts. Plain and simple. There is no friggin way Jon Arryn was ever going to accept. When the King has reached a point where his paranoia and madness comples him to make such ridiculous demands, pleasing him in the short term only means he'll want something even crazier next time. Aerys pretty much told Jon ''you either hand me over your allies, along with abandoning most of your prstige and honor for the sake of pleasing my murderous whims with no guarantee I won't have more afterwards, or you rebel''. Well gues what, Jon rebelled. Surprise!

I mean, let's be honest folks, he isn't called the Mad King because it has a nice ring to it. Aerys was crazy, plain and simple. I very strongly doubt Varys suggested such a course of action to him; the Cockless Wonder is many bad things, but an idiot is not one of them, and only an idiot or a madman would thing such a demand would have any effect but rebellion.

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tell that to Caligula has far as him and aerys are concerned everyone was theirs to torment even their family memebers.

And what happened to Caligula? Oh right, he was stabbed in an assassination by his guards. My point stands: Go too far and piss off enough people, and no power is absolute. You might want to actually think your examples through before offering them up, in case they support my point and not yours.

Yes, he does.

But once Aerys would have Ned and Robert executed, Stannis would get in the exact same position; a young lord, who could want to avenge his kin. What does Aerys do then? Sends another letter to Stannis, inviting him to dine with him?

I didn't say that he'd never call for Stannis to be killed, just explaining why he wouldn't call for Stannis's head at the same time as Ned's and Robert's.

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And what happened to Caligula? Oh right, he was stabbed in an assassination by his guards. My point stands: Go too far and piss off enough people, and no power is absolute. You might want to actually think your examples through before offering them up, in case they support my point and not yours.

I didn't say that he'd never call for Stannis to be killed, just explaining why he wouldn't call for Stannis's head at the same time as Ned's and Robert's.

and mine stands too they can do whatever they want only difference is caligua went out like a boss laughing aerys went out like a bitch running.

My point is clear as day it doesn't matter when they are over thrown as long as they were in charge they did what they wanted. Did i not emphasize that clear enough?

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and mine stands too they can do whatever they want only difference is caligua went out like a boss laughing aerys went out like a bitch running.

My point is clear as day it doesn't matter when they are over thrown as long as they were in charge they did what they wanted. Did i not emphasize that clear enough?

But they COULDN'T do whatever they wanted, else Aerys would never been rebelled against and Caligula wouldn't have been stabbed. Doing what you want at the time is completely useless if the consequences of it result in your death or loss of power. As such it baffles me why you seem to believe they got away with it. They didn't, that's the point.

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IMHO Aerys had been informed about the possible alliance already being stipulated among great houses of westeros..


..dragons have been dead for quite a while, even lords must have noticed and started to plan to conquer back their own independence from Targaryen dynasty.



It was no chance that Ned and Robert were fostered together, that Brandon was promised to a River land lady and Robert to a northern one.. I believe that even Lisa's marriage was already half planned, maybe with someone else than the old guy.



The war that triggered some time after this and the alliances that were so abruptly fast to grow after this can not be the result of chance, diplomatic relationships have been high since a long time and a great part of rebellion was already planned.. Rhaegar and Aerys doing only accelerated their plans.



This is pretty much what happened with Varys and Littlefinger who - years later - both tried to grow a new war and found themselves in difficulty to restrain it from blowing up and slowing it down after starting it.


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WRT the OP, I'm curious about the "and Robert". One wonders what would have happened had Aerys called for Ned's head only. It would have left a more difficult decision for Jon and Robert. Asking for both deaths pretty much made rebellion inevitable, but for just one.... ? Probably, Jon and his wards would have rebelled anyway. Or Jon might have tried to reason with the king (from a safe distance) and sent Ned into temporary exile. Certainly Robert had almost as much a grudge against Rhaegar as the Starks, which is presumably why Aerys went after him. If he had won and remained in power, would he have allowed the younger, less experienced and more malleable Benjen and Stannis to keep their titles? Being mad, probably not.



BTW, I smell a possible Varys intervention in this decision to ask for both heads. Does anyone else?


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Aerys' state of mind is clearly troubled, no point in arguing over this. However, with regard to his chosen course of action, what was his endgame? He seemingly tried to play one last trump card by this order to Jon Arryn, before the real battles started. It was a long shot, but what if the old guy actually complied? No sense in not actually trying, it seems to me. Being the king, he should have had a good intelligence network, even more so with Varys around, so the hypothesis for a planned rebellion should have been floated before him on previous occasions. In fewer words, Aerys made a bluff and Jon Arryn called him on it. Basically, his order was of the type 'Et tu, Brutus?'. So, no real sense in trying to appease Jon or negotiating with him by bargaining for one of the wards only; Aerys just had to confirm his suspicion of a planned rebellion and act accordingly. If Arryn sends him the heads, all is well and good. Otherwise, in come the pyromancers.



What seems more interesting in this line of thinking, however, is why Varys urged him to keep the gates closed when Tywin approached the capital? It seems from his later actions, that Varys has his own agenda, why would he do that if he has no true loyalty to the Targaryen dynasty (barring the off-chance that Aegon is genuine)? Methinks that Varys wasn't actually sure as to what Tywin would do once inside the capital. He could actually defend King's Landing along with Aerys and this could mean serious trouble for the whole 'enlightened monarch' agenda that Varys is so relentlessly pushing. If he convinces Aerys that the gates must stay locked, then the Targaryen downfall is completely ensured and is only a matter of time, since the king would now also have one seriously pissed off Tywin to deal with.



If we take this view to analyzing Aerys' order to Arryn, it could be argued that the bluff was his own (mad) idea and Varys supported it by convincing him it would actually be a good thing to do. And later, when Aerys ignored Varys' claim that the gates stay locked, he actually saw through his earlier deception. At that moment, he went along with his second gamble - opening the gates - but it was under a lack of alternative options. Unfortunately for him, in either case his dynasty was doomed despite his choice, and yet Varys was always conveniently there to push what in retrospect proves to be the exactly worst choice and make sure Aerys doesn't somehow miraculously come out on top.


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But they COULDN'T do whatever they wanted, else Aerys would never been rebelled against and Caligula wouldn't have been stabbed. Doing what you want at the time is completely useless if the consequences of it result in your death or loss of power. As such it baffles me why you seem to believe they got away with it. They didn't, that's the point.

why do you think i say they got away with it. Did i say that? i said as long as they were called King/Emperor they can do whatever the hell they want and they did and yes they died for it, but it doesn't change the fact that they could still do what they want.

Thats the thing with aerys he just lost his rebellion, but has King he still could do what ever he wanted and can call for anyone head as unjust as it may be, because that was his right. He just did back it up. Still don't changed the fact that he did what ever he wanted.

shit robb did what ever he wanted as king even when told not to. I don't blaming it on him he had every right to marry that westerling girl even if he did swear to someone else. Why cause he was king and no one in the north seemed to complain. Shit joffery did whatever he wanted and people complained, but has the hound said not his place to question the king. Same with stannis doing whatever the hell he wants because he baers the title as king. As long as they aren't dead or over thrown they can do whatever the hell they want.

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