King Jaime Lannister Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 WRT the OP, I'm curious about the "and Robert". One wonders what would have happened had Aerys called for Ned's head only. It would have left a more difficult decision for Jon and Robert. Asking for both deaths pretty much made rebellion inevitable, but for just one.... ? Probably, Jon and his wards would have rebelled anyway. Or Jon might have tried to reason with the king (from a safe distance) and sent Ned into temporary exile. Certainly Robert had almost as much a grudge against Rhaegar as the Starks, which is presumably why Aerys went after him. If he had won and remained in power, would he have allowed the younger, less experienced and more malleable Benjen and Stannis to keep their titles? Being mad, probably not. BTW, I smell a possible Varys intervention in this decision to ask for both heads. Does anyone else? YES. I was speed reading through the thread to see if anyone would say this first. If his goal in the current story to to create chaos, why would it not be his motivation earlier??? Also, Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna. He was sort of at the center of the dilemma Rhaegar put his father in. He is betrothed to a Stark. Stannis is not. And his best bud brother in law to be Lord of the North is in the same castle as him. Squash it all right then and there. If Jon Arryn had obeyed, I am pretty sure there is never a rebellion. Starks learn they have no power over the throne, so don't fuck around. It is actually an OK strategy. It is kind of a Tywin move. The fact that it failed, showed that the crown DOES NOT have the power to do whatever it wants without repercussion. If it had worked, it is a great power play and totally establishes dominance. Moves like this in History are always judged with hindsight. If the Westerlands had risen up against Tywin after he removes the Reins and Tarbecks it would seem foolish, but since worked in his favor its considered strength. Wait a second, did my two points just contradict each other? Shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 YES. I was speed reading through the thread to see if anyone would say this first. If his goal in the current story to to create chaos, why would it not be his motivation earlier??? Also, Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna. He was sort of at the center of the dilemma Rhaegar put his father in. He is betrothed to a Stark. Stannis is not. And his best bud brother in law to be Lord of the North is in the same castle as him. Squash it all right then and there. If Jon Arryn had obeyed, I am pretty sure there is never a rebellion. Starks learn they have no power over the throne, so don't fuck around. It is actually an OK strategy. It is kind of a Tywin move. The fact that it failed, showed that the crown DOES NOT have the power to do whatever it wants without repercussion. If it had worked, it is a great power play and totally establishes dominance. Moves like this in History are always judged with hindsight.If the Westerlands had risen up against Tywin after he removes the Reins and Tarbecks it would seem foolish, but since worked in his favor its considered strength. Wait a second, did my two points just contradict each other? Shit. Well played! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Stark Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Even if Rhaegar was causing the Mad King problems, as eldest sons often do, it still could be that the Mad King loved his son. With Rhaegar running off with Robert's betrothed, and Ned wanting to rescue his sister (his blood), I'm sure this presented a threat to the Mad King's heir. Is that not a good enough "excuse" to have them killed by itself? The love a father bears his son, especially the heir to the throne, is a pretty strong reason to demand the lives of those who threaten it. Or at least it's possible, IMO. And this just MIGHT explain why he demanded their deaths and no one else's. Of course, I like the idea that in his madness he was still calculating enough to test Jon Arryn's loyalty to the crown (or as many have said, that Varys wanted to throw the realm off balance and pin the Vale and the Targs against each other for instability). Interesting discussion, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 It is never a good idea to have your daughter-in-law's father and eldest brother executed, it doesn't get better when you ask for her next brother's head.For all we know Ned would have had to endure his sister as the crown prince's second wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Jon Arryn was The Lord of the Vale, harboring Ned and Robert, close with Ned and Robert, and Areys just slaughtered his family, but he did not call for his head. Just there heads so something is missing in the action, and while crazy it seems an odd choice for a mad king who wanted to burn people. After Ned and Robert comes Benjen and Stannis, was the king going to stop at Just those two. He had just killed The Lord of Winterfell so by your logic he should not be calling for Ned. Noboody from Roberts house was in Brandons party. It may suggest Robert and Ned did something or the King was told they did something. I am going to agree with you here. I believe that there was something going on beneath the surface in the lead up to RR. We have really only been told the story from the rebels side. There are too many things that don't make sense about that time period. Also, there are too many discrepancies with the attitudes people have. For instance, Robert asks Ned several times to admit that he is at least a better king than Aerys. Oddly, Ned never agrees with this. Considering he lost three beloved family members to Aerys' madness it should be easy for him to agree that Robert is a least a better king than Aerys. Additionally, everyone in the story, except Robert, has an extremely high opinion of Rhaegar. This doesn't make sense with what we have been told about Lyanna. I predict that we will find out that whatever excuse Rhaegar had for taking Lyanna, it was an acceptable one by Westerosi standards (maybe something like she was asked to serve as a companion to Elia). Finally, many people want to lay the blame for RR at Varys' feet. However, I believe that whatever was going on pre-dated Varys' arrival. I think the seeds of the rebellion were sown at Duskendale along with Aerys' madness. My guess at who got the whole ball rolling would be Tywin. I suspect that it was somehow Tywin's plan that Aerys would be killed at Duskendale so that Tywin could approach Rhaegar directly about marrying Cersei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 @bent branch Lord Rickard's Southron Ambitions http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2012/01/05-southron-ambitions/index.html as alluded to by Lady Barbrey -> Tourney at Harrenhal with Prince Rhaegar attending ... but unluckily... King Aerys attends as well, with suspicions of another rebellion in-planning similar to the undercover Blackfyre plot meet-ups in the Dunk&Egg stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSothoryos Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Here is my whole theory on the lead up to RR: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/100141-crackpot-theory-alert-aerys-commanded-rhaegar-to-abduct-lyanna/#entry5165739Basically, I believe it was Rickard Stark's Southron Ambitions and the Tourney at Harrenhal. Varys told Aerys that there was a conspiracy of Great Lords meeting at Harrenhal and they were trying to meet with Rhaegar. A sort of next generation of Westerosi leaders club to woo Rhaegar. Aerys shows up, proves to Rhaegar he isn't just paranoid and how deep the conspiracy goes. I think the Knight of the Laughing Tree (a obvious sign of the North) was the straw that broke the camel's back for Aerys.Looking at the possible alliances between the Starks/Arryns/Baratheon/Tully/Lannister and who was at Harrenhal you see all the conspirators. Rickard sent all his kids. Robert was there. Jon Arryn sent his heir, Elbert (we can surmise because he's in the Riverlands with Brandon since he rode with him to King's Landing). Even Jaime Lannister is there. All heirs, no LP (except Robert). Surprisingly, no Tullys though Harrenhal is in the Riverlands. By the time Aerys calls for Ned and Robert's heads, they are the only ones left that were at the Tourney. Rickard the ringleader, his heir Brandon, Elbert are all dead; Lyanna and Jaime Lannister are both hostages and I believe Benjen was too young to be deemed a traitor and/or raise his banners and lead a rebellion. Since Jon Arryn wasn't there, Aerys doesn't know if he was part of it, so he calls him to do his duty and execute 2 confirmed traitors who are under his roof. Since the Tullys weren't there, Aerys doesn't have any beef with them (which is why Hoster needs added guarantees when the Rebellion begins in Lysa's marriage to Jon Arryn). The Tourney at Harrenhal is the key to why Aerys only calls for Ned and Robert's head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Aerys shows up, proves to Rhaegar he isn't just paranoid and how deep the conspiracy goes. I think the Knight of the Laughing Tree (a obvious sign of the North) was the straw that broke the camel's back for Aerys.[...] Since Jon Arryn wasn't there, Aerys doesn't know if he was part of it, so he calls him to do his duty and execute 2 confirmed traitors who are under his roof. [...]The Tourney at Harrenhal is the key to why Aerys only calls for Ned and Robert's head. Wow! Just wow! (sorry I borrowed that) This is incredibly KISS, compelling, simple, and I must be stupid not to have head that thought is what I am feeling now. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I posted about this before. It is the root of all of Aerys' paranoia and insanity. Why he did what he did. This about sums it all up http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads16/Inbred1259898134.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Well, he's a Targ. They tend to be like that. Just wait, Dany will start burning people randomly soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bratchild Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 I have sometimes wondered if he called for Bob and Ned's heads,because they were,(at least in theory),close to Lyanna. The three eldest Stark children would either be killed,(or in Lyanna's case, missing) and Bob was estranged from his brother so perhaps Aerys didn't think that Stannis would be moved to defend his brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Scorpio Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 FUBAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of Puppets Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 MAD king..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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