Small Questions v 10021

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If it was in regards to her death all I have found so far is that she pleaded.

Oh, I forgot to mention that. It was about her encounter with Gregor during the Sack, indeed.

[mindchap]

Oh, I forgot to mention that. It was about her encounter with Gregor during the Sack, indeed.

The only thing I can see is from Varys to Tyrion, and from Tywin to Tyrion(but the latter is in regards to Rhaenys) and I'm putting this in spoiler tags for disturbing content:(Sorry, I still have trouble reading that)

“Why forget?” Tyrion smiled. “I’ve promised to deliver his sister’s killers, alive or dead, as he prefers. After the war is done, to be sure.”

Varys gave him a shrewd look. “My little birds tell me that Princess Elia cried a... certain name... when they came for her.”

“Is a secret still a secret if everyone knows it?” In Casterly Rock, it was common knowledge that Gregor Clegane had killed Elia and her babe. They said he had raped the princess with her son’s blood and brains still on his hands.

“This secret is your lord father’s sworn man.”

“My father would be the first to tell you that fifty thousand Dornishmen are worth one rabid dog.”

Varys stroked a powdered cheek. “And if Prince Doran demands the blood of the lord who gave the command as well as the knight who did the deed...”

“Robert Baratheon led the rebellion. All commands came from him, in the end.”

“Robert was not at King’s Landing.”

“Neither was Doran Martell.”

And regarding the little princess:

“It is justice. It was Ser Amory who brought me the girl’s body, if you must know. He found her hiding under her father’s bed, as if she believed Rhaegar could still protect her. Princess Elia and the babe were in the nursery a floor below.”

...

Yet he saw himself as a hero, and heroes do not kill children.” His father shrugged. “I grant you, it was done too brutally. Elia need not have been harmed at all, that was sheer folly. By herself she was nothing.”

“Then why did the Mountain kill her?”

“Because I did not tell him to spare her. I doubt I mentioned her at all. I had more pressing concerns. Ned Stark’s van was rushing south from the Trident, and I feared it might come to swords between us. And it was in Aerys to murder Jaime, with no more cause than spite. That was the thing I feared most. That, and what Jaime himself might do.” He closed a fist. “Nor did I yet grasp what I had in Gregor Clegane, only that he was huge and terrible in battle. The rape... even you will not accuse me of giving that command, I would hope. Ser Amory was almost as bestial with Rhaenys. I asked him afterward why it had required half a hundred thrusts to kill a girl of... two? Three? He said she’d kicked him and would not stop screaming. If Lorch had half

the wits the gods gave a turnip, he would have calmed her with a few sweet words and used a soft silk pillow.” His mouth twisted in distaste. “The blood was in him.”

But not in you, Father. There is no blood in Tywin Lannister. “Was it a soft silk pillow that slew Robb Stark?”

[Estheros]

Does Dany have a Targ history book?I know she got something from jor ah,but does she ever ask for a book on dragons and/or her ancestors or does she still only rely on viserys and barrist an?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

Does Dany have a Targ history book?I know she got something from jor ah,but does she ever ask for a book on dragons and/or her ancestors or does she still only rely on viserys and barrist an?

The books Dany got were I think legends about Westeros, although I could.be mistaken. However they may actually be history books, as I noticed a while back an instance where she has read a story about a King who.locked his sisters (or it might havr said queen) in a tower for being beautiful (ala Baelor)

[RumHam]

Are you sure it was tigress, the only SSMs featuring Elia are HERE

There's a small chance Martin said it in a video interview, or one of the web chats he's done. Those wouldn't come up in the search. Still from a quick google the tigress thing seems to come from somebody's fan fiction.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There's a small chance Martin said it in a video interview, or one of the web chats he's done. Those wouldn't come up in the search. Still from a quick google the tigress thing seems to come from somebody's fan fiction.

In that case, someone probably put it in a fanfiction, someone else read that fanficton, and later on thought he had read it in an SSM or interview, most likely.

Too bad, it would have been an nice touch, frail Elia fighting like a tigress for her children :)

Thank you all for searching! :D

[TheCrannogDweller]

Where in the Riverands are Raventree Hall and Stoney Hedge located?

[CosimaistheHottest]

In that case, someone probably put it in a fanfiction, someone else read that fanficton, and later on thought he had read it in an SSM or interview, most likely.

Too bad, it would have been an nice touch, frail Elia fighting like a tigress for her children :)

Thank you all for searching! :D

Just because it doesn't say it doesn't mean that she didn't fight. I mean who isn't going to be trying to fight a savage beast who seeks to rape and murder you and your children. Does one really believe she just laid on the floor and did nothing? All these weird fanon theories and you can't imagine that she actually for a few seconds tried to fight.

It's just a morbid asking.

Fan :Did Elia fight the man who was trying to rape her and murder her children?

Martin looks awkward: "Well, yes wouldn't you. It just didn't work out for her and how much damage could she really do."

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Just because it doesn't say it doesn't mean that she didn't fight. I mean who isn't going to be trying to fight a savage beast who seeks to rape and murder you and your children. Does one really believe she just laid on the floor and did nothing? All these weird fanon theories and you can't imagine that she actually for a few seconds tried to fight.

It's just a morbid asking.

Fan :Did Elia fight the man who was trying to rape her and murder her children?

Martin looks awkward: "Well, yes wouldn't you. It just didn't work out for her and how much damage could she really do."

Chill, I never said she didn't fight. I meant a mentioning by GRRM would have been nice.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I feel a little bit attacked here. Especially as a Martell/Targaryen fan :)

[coil]

A question related to the Dunk and Egg tales, if you don't mind: is there something 'secret' going on during The Sworn Sword?

By secret I mean something strange going on but not outright stated, like the whole Edge Knight's

shady business about Dunk's knighthood

.

Do you also have any idea about who burned Wat's Wood? I have doubts on Lucas, but wasn't able to find textual evidences...

[CosimaistheHottest]

Chill, I never said she didn't fight. I meant a mentioning by GRRM would have been nice.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I feel a little bit attacked here. Especially as a Martell/Targaryen fan :)

Sorry if it was perceived to be an attack. I didn't mean it to be. I was just thinking along the lines of you thinking she wouldn't try to fight off the man who is about the harm her and her children.

Elia already gets alot of crap thrown at her for "being in the way of true love." When she seemingly had it worse in the end, then the other two. Left alone with a madman who starts burning people alive and brutalizing his wife. Then she becomes a hostage to this same man. When her husband finally does come back, he doesn't get them away from him. He goes off to fight in a war and gets killed. Her uncle also dies. Now, she is being blamed again for it by Aerys because "Dorne betrayed Rhaegar." He allows his wife and son to leave but she and her children are kept as hostages like they aren't even family to this man. Who knows, maybe she thought the Lannisters were coming to save them or maybe she realized that this was the perfect opportunity for Tywin Lannister to have his own daughter as Queen and he wasn't coming to help them. During all this, her daughter goes missing or she tells her to hide just in case, Elia's door is broken down and her and her child are murdered but not before she is shamed by this man who she has probably met before seeing as how her own husband gave him the honor of knighthood. She didn't have the comfort of a quick death or have someone she loved to ease her passage/. The face that she looked up at for her last moments was that of a savage man.

So yeah it annoys me when I feel people think of her as only frail, not good enough, not worthy and that she wouldn't have done anything to save herself and her children.

[RumHam]

Why are people knighted on the battlefield? Seems like something that could wait.

[Ser Leftwich]

Why are people knighted on the battlefield? Seems like something that could wait.

In case they die in the meantime. It is probably after the fighting has ended. A turn of phrase.

After the Battle of the Blackwater, they have the throne room for ceremony (there is some passage about the KG having to do all the knighting or some such), on a battlefield out in the middle of nowhere, you just do it there.

[MordsGoldTeeth]

Why are people knighted on the battlefield? Seems like something that could wait.

yes this just means on the field of battle, not while the battle is actually taking place

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

A question related to the Dunk and Egg tales, if you don't mind: is there something 'secret' going on during The Sworn Sword?

By secret I mean something strange going on but not outright stated, like the whole Edge Knight's

shady business about Dunk's knighthood

.

Do you also have any idea about who burned Wat's Wood? I have doubts on Lucas, but wasn't able to find textual evidences...

Well, as to Dunk's knighting, Dunk , in the Hedge Knight, already thinks to himself "He knew what it was like to want something so badly that you would tell a monstrous lie just to get near it." This he thinks after learning about Aegon having lied about being Egg, only because he wanted to be someone's squire. There's also the fact that Dunk hesitates when someone asks to be knighted by him.

There are two possibilities here. Either Dunk doubts the validity of the knighting he received, or he was never truly knighted at all. The last option could refer to the "to want something so badly you would tell a monstrous lie". Lying about being a knight is a big deal in Westeros. Although the "just to get near it" part of the though would be a little strange here.

Dunk had no witnesses to his becomming a knight, so whether or not it was valid... There are a lot of hints in the Dunk and Egg stories about Dunk's knighting and about how it might not have gone as he tells it. These hints are in all three stories, IIRC. So if you thought you read some in the Sworn Sword, that is possible. Most hints are in the Hedge Knight though, I believe.

As to Wat's Wood, it most likely happened at the command of the Red Widow. The timing is incredibly suspicious. Though she might not have meant for it to have been as bad as it was. The drought that was going on might have made it worse than planned.

Sorry if it was perceived to be an attack. I didn't mean it to be. I was just thinking along the lines of you thinking she wouldn't try to fight off the man who is about the harm her and her children.

Elia already gets alot of crap thrown at her for "being in the way of true love." When she seemingly had it worse in the end, then the other two. Left alone with a madman who starts burning people alive and brutalizing his wife. Then she becomes a hostage to this same man. When her husband finally does come back, he doesn't get them away from him. He goes off to fight in a war and gets killed. Her uncle also dies. Now, she is being blamed again for it by Aerys because "Dorne betrayed Rhaegar." He allows his wife and son to leave but she and her children are kept as hostages like they aren't even family to this man. Who knows, maybe she thought the Lannisters were coming to save them or maybe she realized that this was the perfect opportunity for Tywin Lannister to have his own daughter as Queen and he wasn't coming to help them. During all this, her daughter goes missing or she tells her to hide just in case, Elia's door is broken down and her and her child are murdered but not before she is shamed by this man who she has probably met before seeing as how her own husband gave him the honor of knighthood. She didn't have the comfort of a quick death or have someone she loved to ease her passage/. The face that she looked up at for her last moments was that of a savage man.

So yeah it annoys me when I feel people think of her as only frail, not good enough, not worthy and that she wouldn't have done anything to save herself and her children.

No, I agree that Elia must have fought in her last moments (and those of Aegon). I have always pictured it such, and can't possibly picture it any other way. I just thought it would have been a nice tough if the words were actually spoken by GRRM himself.

As to Elia having been in the way of true love. That is complete crap. Did Elia have a choice in her marriage? Probably not. And still, she did everything required of her. And then, only a short time after she gave birth to the son and heir her husband needed, he leaves her, and rumours start to surface that he took off with another woman. Even in a loveless marriage, something like that will hurt. She had it worse than Rhaegar and Lyanna, IMHO. She was left alone in a castle with a madman who held all the power, and died a horrible, slow and cruel death.

Why are people knighted on the battlefield? Seems like something that could wait.

It's an honor to have been a knight, even if it had been for a short time only. Though I'd rather not stop fighting in order to give someone the proper (7 is it?) taps on the shoulder and speak all the right words, or stop fighting to stand witness to it all, or stop fighting because I have to kneel (all scenario's in which you make it so much easier for the enemie to attack you), in Westeros it is considered an honor to have been a knight. Even if you only were a knight for an hour (like when you get knighted on the battlefield and you die right after; at least he was a knight, they'll say :) )

[Hardstone]

I can't recall but was Aeron Greyjoy's ship named in the books before it was sunk off of Fair Isle?

I was just thinking how cool the Greyjoy Brother's ship names are. The Great Kraken, Silence, Iron Victory...did Aeron live up to this standard?

[Aerys Ahai Reborn]

How/where do men of the faith of the Drowned God who join the Night's Watch take their vows?

I'm assuming they all travel to Eastwatch to do so, but that seems inconvenient (well, maybe not since most would be assigned to Eastwatch anyway).

And then do they have to kneel in the freezing cold water while they say their vows? Or can they just do so on the shore without going into the water?

[mindchap]

A question related to the Dunk and Egg tales, if you don't mind: is there something 'secret' going on during The Sworn Sword?

By secret I mean something strange going on but not outright stated, like the whole Edge Knight's

shady business about Dunk's knighthood

.

Do you also have any idea about who burned Wat's Wood? I have doubts on Lucas, but wasn't able to find textual evidences...

D&E Spoiler This is from the SSM

Noreascon (Boston, MA; September 2-6)

[Note: The following is a paraphrase of the reporter's statement.]

Martin officially said that Dunk was not knighted [by Ser Arlan of Pennytree].

[mindchap]

Just because it doesn't say it doesn't mean that she didn't fight. I mean who isn't going to be trying to fight a savage beast who seeks to rape and murder you and your children. Does one really believe she just laid on the floor and did nothing? All these weird fanon theories and you can't imagine that she actually for a few seconds tried to fight.

It's just a morbid asking.

Fan :Did Elia fight the man who was trying to rape her and murder her children?

Martin looks awkward: "Well, yes wouldn't you. It just didn't work out for her and how much damage could she really do."

We were just looking for a quote, none of us think(at least I don't) that she didn't put up any fight, it's just that sometimes people will say they read something somewhere that they never actually read or it wasn't said by GRRM. On these boards if someone tries to make a statement with words from GRRM they have to be able to back it up else it loses all credibility. That whole part of this story is one of the hardest for me to read because I have small children whom I love very much and would fight to my dying breath to try and keep them safe, their mother would too. :)

[Mini Ghost]

Would Jaqen give Gendry the FM coin if he said he wanted to join him?