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Small Questions v 10021


Stubby

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Stannis does have 2 squires yes; Devan, Davos' son and some Farring...Gilbert perhaps? Idr his name but its definitely a Farring. Who incidently dies in Dance during the march to Winterfell, leaving Stannis with no squires prior to the battle.

It is Bryen Farring who dies, Gilbert Farring is the Castellan of Storm's End.

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Was Steffon's accident a sabotage planned by Aerys? Given how he overreacted to Brandon and Rickard, was he planning to get rid of powerful lords and break their alliances for a long time? Was Steffon's job to find a bride doomed from the beginning?


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It is Bryen Farring who dies, Gilbert Farring is the Castellan of Storm's End.

Cheers :) I knew it was some Farring or other.

My own question; can anyone think of any ocassions where Bran has shown an aggressive side, or a desire for revenge, or any other similar feelings?

@Lamprey - impossible to know. I think not, from the brief description we get of it. Bear in mind that this was prior to the Tourney at Harrenhal, and Steffon Baratheon was Aerys'...cousin? Second cousin? (Rhaenys will know) While Aerys mistrusted his family, I cant see him.killing them off. Idk the timeline, but if this occurred before the Defiance of Duskendale, it becomes even more unlikely.

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Was Steffon's accident a sabotage planned by Aerys? Given how he overreacted to Brandon and Rickard, was he planning to get rid of powerful lords and break their alliances for a long time? Was Steffon's job to find a bride doomed from the beginning?

No, Aerys actually trusted his cousin. They were close and thus he was chosen to bring a bride for Rhaegar. Not to mention the tourney of harrenhal occured quite a while after that accident.

Cheers :) I knew it was some Farring or other.

My own question; can anyone think of any ocassions where Bran has shown an aggressive side, or a desire for revenge, or any other similar feelings?

No we haven't been given a specific account of Bran's aggressiveness, afaik.

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Cheers :) I knew it was some Farring or other.

My own question; can anyone think of any ocassions where Bran has shown an aggressive side, or a desire for revenge, or any other similar feelings?

@Lamprey - impossible to know. I think not, from the brief description we get of it. Bear in mind that this was prior to the Tourney at Harrenhal, and Steffon Baratheon was Aerys'...cousin? Second cousin? (Rhaenys will know) While Aerys mistrusted his family, I cant see him.killing them off. Idk the timeline, but if this occurred before the Defiance of Duskendale, it becomes even more unlikely.

:)

Aerys' father was Jaehaerys, and Steffon's mother was Rhaelle. Rhaelle and Jaehaerys were brother and sister. So Aerys and Steffon were first cousins.

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My own question; can anyone think of any ocassions where Bran has shown an aggressive side, or a desire for revenge, or any other similar feelings?

Depends on what you wish to include in this. We know the direwolves sometimes project the feelings of their owners, and when Tyrion comes back to WF and the direwolves come to the scene, they all start growling at him, Summer being the first one.

The door to the yard flew open. Sunlight came streaming across the hall as Rickon burst in, breathless. The direwolves were with him. The boy stopped by the door, wide-eyed, but the wolves came on. Their eyes found Lannister, or perhaps they caught his scent. Summer began to growl first. Grey Wind picked it up. They padded toward the little man, one from the right and one from the left.

“The wolves do not like your smell, Lannister,” Theon Greyioy commented.

“Perhaps it’s time I took my leave,” Tyrion said. He took a step backward... and Shaggydog came out of the shadows behind him, snarling. Lannister recoiled, and Summer lunged at him from the other side. He reeled away, unsteady on his feet, and Grey Wind snapped at his arm, teeth ripping at his sleeve and tearing loose a scrap of cloth.

Bran himself doesn't seem to be aggressive, he tries to stop Summer after this, but who knows, maybe subconciously he feels some kind of hatred for the Lannisters and it comes out.

I can't find the quote now, but another thing that came to my mind on the top of my head, is that Bran might have had some angry thoughts about Walder and Walder.

ETA: Here it is, Walders making mock of Hodor got Bran pretty upset at least:

Little Walder cast his splintered lance aside, spied Bran, and reined up. “Now there’s an ugly horse,” he said of Hodor.

“Hodor’s no horse,” Bran said.

“Hodor,” said Hodor.

Big Walder trotted up to join his cousin. “Well, he’s not as smart as a horse, that’s for certain.” A few of the White Harbor lads poked each other and laughed.

“Hodor.” Beaming genially, Hodor looked from one Frey to the other, oblivious to their taunting. “Hodor hodor?”

Little Walder’s mount whickered. “See, they’re talking to each other. Maybe hodor means ‘I love you’ in horse.”

“You shut up, Frey.” Bran could feel his color rising.

Little Walder spurred his horse closer, giving Hodor a bump that pushed him backward. “What will you do if I don’t?”

“He’ll set his wolf on you, cousin,” warned Big Walder.

“Let him. I always wanted a wolfskin cloak.”

“Summer would tear your fat head off,” Bran said.

Little Walder banged a mailed fist against his breastplate. “Does your wolf have steel teeth, to bite through plate and mail?”

“Enough!” Maester Luwin’s voice cracked through the clangor of the yard as loud as a thunderclap.

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It struck me as a way of just saying "relatively close relative", but I thought it was interesting, as I couldn't recall any other examples where it is used as such.

Rhaegar calls Robert cousin, while actually, they are second cousins.

From the Wikipedia page on the definition of the word cousin, I got the meaning that Aegon and Bloodraven's relationship can be described as first cousins trice removed (though I'm not a native speaker, so I'm not certain on whether or not such a term is used in real life). Perhaps that's why Aegon uses the word cousin, and Rhaegar does the same for Robert?

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Rhaegar calls Robert cousin, while actually, they are second cousins.

From the Wikipedia page on the definition of the word cousin, I got the meaning that Aegon and Bloodraven's relationship can be described as first cousins trice removed (though I'm not a native speaker, so I'm not certain on whether or not such a term is used in real life). Perhaps that's why Aegon uses the word cousin, and Rhaegar does the same for Robert?

Your English is exceptionally good for a non native speaker. I barely noticed the accent...
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Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can confirm Brynden Blackfish Tullys age for me?



This is what I've come up with so far:



The wiki says he was born 240ac, no source is provided.



From the books I've pieced this together:




Barristan ADwD


Aegon’s son Jaehaerys had bestowed the white cloak on him when he was three-and-twenty, after he slew Maelys the Monstrous during the War of the Ninepenny Kings.


Barristan was 23 in 260ac, Thus the War of the Ninepenny Kings had to have taken place around 260ac.



Jaime AFoC



Jaime could see archers moving behind the merlons on the castle ramparts. Above them streamed the banners of House Tully, the silver trout defiant on its striped field of red and blue. But the highest tower flew a different flag; a long white standard emblazoned with the direwolf of Stark. “The first time I saw Riverrun, I was a squire green as summer grass,” Jaime told his cousin. “Old Sumner Crakehall sent me to deliver a message, one he swore could not be entrusted to a raven. Lord Hoster kept me for a fortnight whilst mulling his reply, and sat me beside his daughter Lysa at every meal.”


“Small wonder you took the white. I’d have done the same.”


“Oh, Lysa was not so fearsome as all that.” She had been a pretty girl, in truth; dimpled and delicate, with long auburn hair. Timid, though. Prone to tongue-tied silences and fits of giggles, with none of Cersei’s fire. Her older sister had seemed more interesting, though Catelyn was promised to some northern boy, the heir of Winterfell... but at that age, no girl interested Jaime half so much as Hoster’s famous brother, who had won renown fighting the Ninepenny Kings upon the Stepstones. At table he had ignored poor Lysa, whilst pressing Brynden Tully for tales of Maelys the Monstrous and the Ebon Prince. Ser Brynden was younger then than I am now, Jaime reflected, and I was younger than Peck.






This visit takes place prior to Jaime’s participation in subduing the Kingswood Brotherhood when Jaime was younger than Peck (who is 15). This means the absolute latest this visit could have taken place was in the earliest days of 281ac –before Jaime’s 15th birthday, the Kingswood Brotherhood, or the Tournament at Harrenhal– but 280 is more likely. According to Jaime Brynden was younger in 280/281ac than Jaime is in 300ac meaning the Blackfish was under 33 years old at the time. If we assume all of this is correct and we take Barristan Selmy’s date for the Wot9pK as accurate than Brynden Blackfish Tully would have only been about 13 when he fought in the stepstones.



300ac: Jaime is 33.


280/81ac: Jaime is 14 years old, Brynden is under 33 years old.


266ac: Jaime is born.


260ac: Wot9pK, Brynden Tully is 13 years old.


247ac: Brynden is born.



does this make sense?


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Makes sense to me. Someone should really go through the wiki and note which ages are just estimations. Thirteen seems young, but he was only a squire at the start of the war so it makes sense.

thanks, :agree:

this would mean Hoster Tully was born in 242ac not 235ac (wiki):

Cat AGoT:

He [blackfish] was Lord Hoster's brother, younger by five years, but the two of them had been at war as far back as Catelyn could remember.

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Hi folks, I'm wondering if anyone can confirm Brynden Blackfish Tullys age for me?

This is what I've come up with so far:

The wiki says he was born 240ac, no source is provided.

From the books I've pieced this together:

Barristan ADwD

Barristan was 23 in 260ac, Thus the War of the Ninepenny Kings had to have taken place around 260ac.

Jaime AFoC

This visit takes place prior to Jaime’s participation in subduing the Kingswood Brotherhood when Jaime was younger than Peck (who is 15). This means the absolute latest this visit could have taken place was in the earliest days of 281ac –before Jaime’s 15th birthday, the Kingswood Brotherhood, or the Tournament at Harrenhal– but 280 is more likely. According to Jaime Brynden was younger in 280/281ac than Jaime is in 300ac meaning the Blackfish was under 33 years old at the time. If we assume all of this is correct and we take Barristan Selmy’s date for the Wot9pK as accurate than Brynden Blackfish Tully would have only been about 13 when he fought in the stepstones.

300ac: Jaime is 33.

280/81ac: Jaime is 14 years old, Brynden is under 33 years old.

266ac: Jaime is born.

260ac: Wot9pK, Brynden Tully is 13 years old.

247ac: Brynden is born.

does this make sense?

Well, the wiki mentions that Jon Arryn was born in 225 AC, and Cat mentions at one point that Hoster was 20 years older than Jon Arryn, which would place Hosters birth year in 245 AC. With the Blackfish 5 years younger, that would place the Blackfish in 250 AC.

However, Jon Arryn's birth year doesn't have a source, and I can't seem to find it in the books. Also, Hoster being born in 245 AC might still seem logical (his first child was born in 264, when he would have been 19, but it would make Brynden's birth year strange. The War of the Ninepenny kings took place during the reign of Aegon V, so before 259 AC. You can't fight in such a war when you're 9 :p

13 years old is very young to fight in a war as well, and to distinguish yourself. Jaime did this when he was 15, but he was exeptional with a sword.

The wiki would make more sense, though I wouldn't know where they got the source.

Jaime is 34 in 300 AC, since 300 AC is already halfway on it's way there.

Jaime would have been 14 in 280 AC, when he was still a squire. Jaime is born in 266 AC.

According to Jaime, Brynden was younger than 34 in 280 AC, when Jaime came to visit. So, following Jaime's line of thoughts, Brynden was born in 246 at the very least, putting Hoster in 241 AC.

Brynden would be 13 in 259, though I have reason to believe the War of the Ninepenny Kings didn't happen in the last year of Aegon's reign, that would be rather coincidental. All of this would make Brynden still very young during the war, which IMHO would be too young to be capable of standing your ground against the disciplined GC.

Makes sense to me. Someone should really go through the wiki and note which ages are just estimations. Thirteen seems young, but he was only a squire at the start of the war so it makes sense.

I agree with this. The time line of global events is filled with mistakes, and on the separate pages there are plenty of mistakes as well regarding the years. A lot of times, the years on the separate pages don't match with the years given in the global time line for major events page. It's quite annoying actually.

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Well, the wiki mentions that Jon Arryn was born in 225 AC, and Cat mentions at one point that Hoster was 20 years older than Jon Arryn, which would place Hosters birth year in 245 AC. With the Blackfish 5 years younger, that would place the Blackfish in 250 AC.

However, Jon Arryn's birth year doesn't have a source, and I can't seem to find it in the books. Also, Hoster being born in 245 AC might still seem logical (his first child was born in 264, when he would have been 19, but it would make Brynden's birth year strange. The War of the Ninepenny kings took place during the reign of Aegon V, so before 259 AC. You can't fight in such a war when you're 9 :P

13 years old is very young to fight in a war as well, and to distinguish yourself. Jaime did this when he was 15, but he was exeptional with a sword.

The wiki would make more sense, though I wouldn't know where they got the source.

Jaime is 34 in 300 AC, since 300 AC is already halfway on it's way there.

Jaime would have been 14 in 280 AC, when he was still a squire. Jaime is born in 266 AC.

According to Jaime, Brynden was younger than 34 in 280 AC, when Jaime came to visit. So, following Jaime's line of thoughts, Brynden was born in 246 at the very least, putting Hoster in 241 AC.

Brynden would be 13 in 259, though I have reason to believe the War of the Ninepenny Kings didn't happen in the last year of Aegon's reign, that would be rather coincidental. All of this would make Brynden still very young during the war, which IMHO would be too young to be capable of standing your ground against the disciplined GC.

I don't trust the Wiki dates unless there is a verifiable source backing it up, so I don't trust the Jon Arryn date of birth.

Lady Minisa did have 6 kids, only 3 of which survived. So it's possible that it took Hoster and Minisa several attempts before they successfully gave birth to their first surviving child (Cat).

Why do you think the Blackfyre rebellion took place in 259 under King Aegon V instead of 260 under King Jaehaerys II?

13 is young, but Benjicot Blackwood was only 11 and he was in a number of battles in the Dance of Dragons.

Jaime ASoS:

...Served against the Kingswood Brotherhood as squire to Lord Sumner Crakehall. Knighted in his 15th year by Ser Arthur Dayne of the Kingsguard, for valor in the field....

...He had saved Lord Sumner’s life as Big Belly Ben was about to smash his head in, though the outlaw had escaped him. And he’d held his own against the Smiling Knight, though it was Ser Arthur who slew him.

From this I think the bar is lowered for teenagers. Jaime, by his own admission, only held his own. I could see Brynden carrying out a similar feat by saving the life of Lord Darry (whom he squired for w/ Norbert Vance) or perhaps his brother, and earning the fame Jaime knew him for.

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Why does Egg call Bloodraven "cousin" when speaking with him in The Mystery Knight? Since Bloodraven is his half-great uncle, wouldn't uncle, nuncle, ....hell, gruncle make more sense?

Any other examples of this?

I'd also say that addressing Bloodraven as cousin is whole lot less of a mouthful than "half-great-bastard-uncle" for an adult. Even more so for a 12 year old.

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I don't trust the Wiki dates unless there is a verifiable source backing it up, so I don't trust the Jon Arryn date of birth.

Lady Minisa did have 6 kids, only 3 of which survived. So it's possible that it took Hoster and Minisa several attempts before they successfully gave birth to their first surviving child (Cat).

Why do you think the Blackfyre rebellion took place in 259 under King Aegon V instead of 260 under King Jaehaerys II?

13 is young, but Benjicot Blackwood was only 11 and he was in a number of battles in the Dance of Dragons.

Jaime ASoS:

From this I think the bar is lowered for teenagers. Jaime, by his own admission, only held his own. I could see Brynden carrying out a similar feat by saving the life of Lord Darry (whom he squired for w/ Norbert Vance) or perhaps his brother, and earning the fame Jaime knew him for.

That's from the A Game of Thrones RPG and Resource Book,where it is stated that:

At the Redgrass Field, a pitched battle took place to determine who would hold the Iron Throne. During the course of that battle, Daemon Blackfyre and hisi two eldest sons were slain. His remaining sons and his half-brother Bittersteel, another of Aegon's legitimised bastards, fled to the Free Cities. They and their descendants were to trouble the Seven Kingdoms for generations until the death of the last Blackfyre Pretender, Maelys the Monstrous, during the War of the Ninepenny Kings in the reign of Aegon V.

In the timeline of that book it is stated that the War of the Ninepenny Kings happened 40 years before Ned Stark was appointed Hand, which would put it in 258 AC, a year before Summerhal. The book also states that after Maelys' death. the war lasted another half year, after which the Band lost the Stepstones and the Disputed Lands. Only Alequo Adarys lingered on in Tyrosh for six more year, but of course, that didn't bother the Targaryens anymore.

Of course, in the book itself it is stated that only things appearing in the novels are canon. However, it is stated that GRRM himself has approbed and authorised all the material concerning the Seven Kingdoms, including the certain grey areas. Everythis that hasn't already appeared in the novels, may be changed as the story progresses. Anything "new" in the RPG book is true, unless GRRM decides to change it in the futyre by putting it in his books.

Barristan slaying Maelys is also in there.

Also, I think (concerning Brynden's possible age) that

Benjicot Blackwood did not actually fight. He was only there, sitting on his horse. Someone at a tPatQ thread raised the option of Benjicot being present at the borders of the fighting simply to inspire loyalty and bravery amongst the men

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