Jump to content

R + L = J v 68


Stubby

Recommended Posts

Sometimes this thread makes me feel like I'm Islanded in a Stream of Starks.

That's good!

I'd like to hear some people's opinions on who (if anyone) Jon should end up marrying if he is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son and/or becomes a king of some description. Jon/Dany is a fairly common ship, to what degree does shipping it correlate with R+L=J?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could be right, but I've never been of the belief that Jon will completely disregard his Targaryen heritage. This would provide a way for him to acknowledge the fire half of his existence. Also, taking the name Aegon VII would show continuity, that he was claiming to rule the same kingdom, more or less, that the first Aegon did.

I don't think it's a crazy idea either. There are a bunch of threads that wonder what Jon's Targaryen name is, was, or will be.

Jon, regardless of who his parents were, has no Targaryen heritage to disregard or abandon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Heritage as in the definition of heritage...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heritage

1

: property that descends to an heir

2

a : something transmitted by or acquired from a predecessor : legacy, inheritance

b : tradition

3

: something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth : birthright <the nation's heritage of tolerance>

Eh, one can certainly argue that in that sense Jon as Rhaegar's son and heir does actually have Targaryen heritage :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I asked his in another thread but I figured I would ask all of you omniscients....



A Song of Ice and Fire is already Aegon's Song. Rhaegar tells us so in the HoTU vision. GRRM has confirmed it as Aegon, Elia and Rhaegar in the vision.



If Rhaegar took off to abduct Lyanna to fulfill some sort of magical blood pregnancy, why did he give Aegon the Song of Ice and Fire? Lyanna's baby hadn't even been conceived yet. If he thought there was something foretold about an "ice and fire" union with Lyanna... why did he say Aegon already had the song?



-



Also, the point about more than one pregnancy was not about more than one child, it was about the length of time Lyanna was missing, and (as has been discussed) why Lyanna may have been bedridden for quite a long period of time... more than the 9 months needed to deliver a full-term baby. And it was brought up as part of a discussion about Lyanna's seeming lack of action/communication as well as the presence of the KG for so long at the ToJ.



Thanks for the analysis, Rhaenys_T, well done. I believe when I first brought this up in the last thread, I estimated about 15 months.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because Rhaegar was mistaken. First he thought he himself was The Prince Who Was Promised, later he thought it was Aegon. No doubt he expected his third child to be a Visenya to go with Rhaenys and Aegon, because that was how he interpreted the prophecy. He thought that Aegon would be the central head of the dragon, paralleling the historical Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. He apparently didn't interpret the "ice and fire" to mean Targaryen and Stark, but simply as leading dragons against the Others and then being sung about for it. Although the notion might have occurred to him after meeting Lyanna. Or not.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^Because people change, their beliefs change. We are all different people from who we were just a year ago. At first Rhaegar thought that he himself was the prophecies protagonist, the prince that was promised, then he thought it was his son Aegon (a point in time when Dany saw him in her vision), then he thought that the dragon had three heads so he had to have another child. Elia was not able to have anymore children so he eloped with Lyanna and made Jon with her. Who was Rhaegar really? We still don't know. What we do know is that he was wrong about many things and that Rhaegar made mistakes. A lot of them. Maybe in the end he realized that to actually represent Ice and Fire you have to be made of both (Jon), and not just fire. Maybe not.



What we DO need is another book. And pronto!


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because Rhaegar was mistaken. First he thought he himself was The Prince Who Was Promised, later he thought it was Aegon. No doubt he expected his third child to be a Visenya to go with Rhaenys and Aegon, because that was how he interpreted the prophecy. He thought that Aegon would be the central head of the dragon, paralleling the historical Aegon, Rhaenys and Visenya. He apparently didn't interpret the "ice and fire" to mean Targaryen and Stark, although the notion might have occurred to him after meeting Lyanna. Or not.

Yes, I do know the theory how he was mistaken, certainly if he was counting Rhaenys.

However, since it seems to be accepted that, at the point in time, he was already planning to create another dragon, specifically with Lyanna, in order to create a magical mix of Ice and Fire... why does he say it's Aegon's song?

The Song of Ice and Fire is almost universally accepted to mean Jon, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

But Rhaegar had already assigned it to a child whose mother had nothing to do with Ice. And if he was already planning to merge his Fire with Lyanna's Ice.... why is it "already Aegon's song"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^Are you serious? Because at that point in time when Dany sees him in her vision he is of that belief! It doesn't mean he was right or that he kept believing it till the end.

Yes, I'm quite serious, since it's the only time in five books we ever hear the title of the entire series.

He was literally on his way to go make a fire and ice baby at Aegon's birth, according to popular opinion. It was already in his head during that scene at the HoTU. And according to some, that plan had been in his head for months, since the ToH.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I do know the theory how he was mistaken, certainly if he was counting Rhaenys.

However, since it seems to be accepted that, at the point in time, he was already planning to create another dragon, specifically with Lyanna, in order to create a magical mix of Ice and Fire... why does he say it's Aegon's song?

The Song of Ice and Fire is almost universally accepted to mean Jon, son of Rhaegar and Lyanna.

But Rhaegar had already assigned it to a child whose mother had nothing to do with Ice. And if he was already planning to merge his Fire with Lyanna's Ice.... why is it "already Aegon's song"?

Because he thought it was.

Rhaegar, as in-story character, might not have recognized the significance of the symbolism in the same way that the audience does.

ETA: You win the award for best straw man signature. Congrats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I'm quite serious, since it's the only time in five books we ever hear the title of the entire series.

He was literally on his way to go make a fire and ice baby at Aegon's birth, according to popular opinion. It was already in his head during that scene at the HoTU. And according to some, that plan had been in his head for months, since the ToH.

I believe the consensus was that Elia was just too weak to support another pregnancy, and therefore he moved on to his second option, which opportunistically presented itself in the form of a strong willed woman whom he may or may not have fallen for. The ironies presumably being that the pregnancy killed the more verile of the two women and actually came to fulfill the "central" head of the three headed dragon, unbeknowst to rhaegar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...