Daenerys Stormborn - A Re-Read Project Part I: AGoT

[MoIaF]

Excellent analysis TMO! :thumbsup:

Queen Alysanne and I have been discussion this chapter, specifically the dream. There is so much foreshadowing and symbolism in this dream, it’s crazy.

It’s really interesting that you bring up Bran as this dream has a lot of similarities with Bran’s own coma dream.

"Wings shadowed her fever dreams. You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you? She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone. You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you? She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. Home, she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame. ... don’t want to wake the dragon, do you?

Ser Jorahs face was drawn and sorrowful. Rhaegar was the last dragon, he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. The last dragon, he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone. She felt the dark behind her, and the red door seemed farther away than ever. ... don’t want to wake the dragon, do you? Viserys stood before her, screaming. The dragon does not beg, slut. You do not command the dragon. I am the dragon, and I will be crowned. The molten gold trickled down his face like wax, burning deep channels in his flesh. I am the dragon and I will be crowned! he shrieked, and his fingers snapped like snakes, biting at her nipples, pinching, twisting, even as his eyes burst and ran like jelly down seared and blackened cheeks. ... don’t want to wake the dragon The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run. ... don’t want to wake the dragon. She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb."

Bran III AGOT:

"Death reached for him, screaming. Bran spread his arms and flew. Wings unseen drank the wind and filled and pulled him upward. The terrible needles of ice receded below him. The sky opened up above. Bran soared. It was better than climbing. It was better than anything. The world grew small beneath him."

Both Dany and Bran are afraid of the Ice that is coming for them. Death to them is a howl (good catch on the wolf thing!) a scream. They are terrified and are trying to get away as quickly as possible. It's also interesting that both these premonition / dreams came to them in times where they were both battling for their lives. Perhaps connecting this current battle with a future battle (for their lives and the lives of others).

********

"Her son was tall and proud, with Drogos copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin ... want to wake the dragon... "

Her son turned to ashes and she tasted ashes when she woke up. A sad remnant of what little was left of her son by the time she woke up.

********

"Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. Faster, they cried, faster, faster. She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. Faster! the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings."

Here are Dany’s ancestors encouraging her along, encouraging her to become and embrace the dragon. I find the description of their swords curious, pale fire. Perhaps a kind of ice fire.

Her feet begin to melt the stone where ever they touched- breaking out of her shell and waking a dragon from stone. She grows wings and begins to fly like a dragon. This is also important to keep in mind as I believe this is part of the bonding process between Drogon and Dany.

*******

I re-quoted Bran below to show that both he and Dany must fly in order to get away from the ice that is threatening to consume them. Here we see that they both share the same fear - perhaps a common enemy.

Bran III AGOT:

"Death reached for him, screaming. Bran spread his arms and flew. Wings unseen drank the wind and filled and pulled him upward. The terrible needles of ice receded below him. The sky opened up above. Bran soared. It was better than climbing. It was better than anything. The world grew small beneath him."

"And Daenerys Targaryen flew. Wake the dragon The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings."

Bran I ASOS - While warged into Summer he thinks the following:

"Prince of the green, prince of the wolfswood. He was strong and swift and fierce, and all the lived in the good green world went in fear of him."

Note the two items highlighter in green, Once both Dany and Bran embrace their inner strength (animal?) others will run in fear of them. I think this might be foreshadowing of the vast amount of power they both will hold.

*********

"She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door. ... the dragon... And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. The last dragon, Ser Jorahs voice whispered faintly. The last, the last. Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars. She woke to the taste of ashes."

I use to think that this might mean that Dany was Rhaegar reincarnated; however, I realize that this dream shows that Dany has now supplanted Rhaegar as the last dragon. That’s what they use to call her brother, but in reality Dany is the last dragon.

******

Here is the quote from Dany X ADWD where we see the phrase whispering of the stars:

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

“Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?” Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight. “Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?”

General Ideas about the Dream

The dream starts with Dany hearing the phrase “You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you? This is something Viserys used to say to her when he threatens violence against her. However, as the dream continues the phrase becomes a demand for her to “wake the dragons”.

“If I look back I am lost”

In this chapter it’s the first time we hear Dany utter this phrase and it is directly related to her fevered dream:

"Darkness, Dany thought. The terrible darkness sweeping up behind to devour her. If she looked back she was lost."

If she looked backed she would be literally lost in her mind. It’s not only the premonition of what’s to come but also the literal things she must leave behind her in order to survive. She must put the death of her husband and child behind, as well as her brother (Viserys). If she hesitates for a moment she won’t survive.

In contrast we have her last chapter Dany X ADWD:

"She stank of blood and sweat and fear, but none of that mattered. “To go forward I must go back,” she said."

For the first time Dany sees and feels that she can deal with what frightens her the most. In this chapter she has become the dragon.

"When she whipped her silver mare on her right flank the mare went left, for a horse’s first instinct is to flee from danger. When she laid the whip across Drogon’s right side he veered right, for a dragon’s first instinct is always to attack."

Back to the rest of the chapter

• “Only shadows,” Ser Jorah husked, but Dany could hear the doubt in his voice. “I saw, maegi. I saw you, alone, dancing with the shadows.”

I’m still a little confused by this, Did Ser Jorah see the shadows after he walked into the tent or before? I’m not sure if that’s clear.

• Drogo’s return. This is what Dany asks MMD:

“When will he be as he was?” Dany demanded.

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”

Honestly, I don’t think this is a prophesy. The answer to Dany’s question is never, he will never be as he was before. However, it might be a self fulfilling prophecy in which I think it is not Drogo per se who returns to Dany but Drogon.

• The Stallion the Mounts the World vs. The Prince that was Promise.

I think these two prophecies are speaking about the same person and have been interpret with the cultural biases of both cultures. If you look at the STMTW prophecy he’s literally called the prince that was promised. I believe all these prophecies are interconnect with each other.

ETA: content

[DragonDreamer]

Really interesting analysis TMO, thanks for the hard work. （￣ー￣）

In summary, Dany's penultimate chapter is littered with tons of symbolism and foreshadowing. It provides the reader with a growing anticipation for her future, and for future of the dragon eggs. Most importantly, it is demonstrative of Daenerys' inner strength and power, as she handles her misfortunes with perseverance and courage. How many characters in the series would be able to withstand half of what Daenerys has survived?

Not many. Not many.

Danearys has had a very unorthodox life and as tough as the lives of our other protagonist have been very few of them compare to hers in the tragic nature of her life. In her last chapter prior to this one when she realizes the grave nature of Drogo's wounds you can see a new level of desperation creeping up on her. Family is very important to Daenerys and to realize that soon the family she had made for herself was about to be destroyed made her do things she would later come to regret. Family and home are so important to her that at times it has blinded her, to her own detriment. This is of course one of the reasons I enjoy her character so much, she is a fighter by nature, and can have at times a determination and strength of will that rarely see. You can't help but admire that kind of resilience.

Great Essay !! TMO :D

I agree with you that this chapter makes Dany a candidate for AAR or at least will play a role in the prophecy.

Another interesting thing I noted in relation to that was Dany's 3 attempts to get the dragon eggs, which is similar to the AA legend, the last attempt is where she got the eggs, similar to AA final attempt to get the sword.

First Attempt

She woke to the taste of ashes. “No,” she moaned, “no, please.” “Khaleesi!” Jhiqui hovered over her, a frightened doe. The tent was drenched in shadow, still and close........ “Yes, Khaleesi.” Quick as that Jhiqui was gone, bolting from the tent, shouting. Dany needed…something…someone…what? It was important, she knew. It was the only thing in the world that mattered. She rolled onto her side and got an elbow under her, fighting the blanket tangled about her legs. It was so hard to move. The world swam dizzily. I have to… They found her on the carpet, crawling toward her dragon eggs. Ser Jorah Mormont lifted her in his arms and carried her back to her sleeping silks, while she struggled feebly against him. Over his shoulder she saw her three handmaids, Jhogo with his little wisp of mustache, and the flat broad face of Mirri Maz Duur. “I must,” she tried to tell them, “I have to…” “…sleep, Princess,” Ser Jorah said. “No,” Dany said. “Please. Please.” “Yes.” He covered her with silk, though she was burning. “Sleep and grow strong again, Khaleesi. Come back to us.”

Second Attempt

After a time—a night, a day, a year, she could not say—she woke again. The tent was dark, its silken walls flapping like wings when the wind gusted outside. This time Dany did not attempt to rise. “Irri,” she called, “Jhiqui. Doreah.” They were there at once. “My throat is dry,” she said, “so dry,” and they brought her water. It was warm and flat, yet Dany drank it eagerly, and sent Jhiqui for more. Irri dampened a soft cloth and stroked her brow. “I have been sick,” Dany said. The Dothraki girl nodded. “How long?” The cloth was soothing, but Irri seemed so sad, it frightened her. “Long,” she whispered. When Jhiqui returned with more water, Mirri Maz Duur came with her, eyes heavy from sleep. “Drink,” she said, lifting Dany’s head to the cup once more, but this time it was only wine. Sweet, sweet wine. Dany drank, and lay back, listening to the soft sound of her own breathing. She could feel the heaviness in her limbs, as sleep crept in to fill her up once more. “Bring me…” she murmured, her voice slurred and drowsy. “Bring…I want to hold…” “Yes?” the maegi asked. “What is it you wish, Khaleesi?” “Bring me…egg…dragon’s egg…please…” Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

Third and Final attempt.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg.

Another interesting part I saw was that this chapter bears some similarities to Dany's last chapter in ADWD and in both they wake up to miscarriages from a dream involving dragons. This is a post I made in another thread regarding the two cases.

Dany's last chapter of ADWD is very similar to Daenerys IX in AGOT.

First AGOT:

Jhiqui would have run as well, but Dany caught her by the wrist and held her captive. “What is it? I must know. Drogo…and my child.’.’ Why had she not remembered the child until now? “My son…Rhaego…where is he? I want him.”

She should weep, she knew, yet her eyes were dry as ash. She had wept in her dream, and the tears had turned to steam on her cheeks. All the grief has been burned out of me, she told herself.

ADWD:

“Drogon killed a little girl. Her name was … her name …” Dany could not recall the child’s name.

That made her so sad that she would have cried if all her tears had not been burned away. “I will never

have a little girl. I was the Mother of Dragons.”

In both cases she wakes from a fevered dream, can't remember a child but remembers her dragon/dragons and doesn't cry after both events. She also wakes to a miscarriage in both events.

Also I wonder if the drink MMD gave Dany in this chapter was what killed Rhaego, the taste is similar to what ate in ADWD to give her a miscarriage, perhaps another parallel of the two chapters?

"She told herself that there were powers stronger than hatred, and spells older and truer than any the maegi had learned in Asshai. The night was black and moonless, but overhead a million stars burned bright. She took that for an omen. No soft blanket of grass welcomed them here, only the hard dusty ground, bare and strewn with stones. No trees stirred in the wind, and there was no stream to soothe her fears with the gentle music of water. Dany told herself that the stars would be enough."

I also found this quote interesting, as it shows that Dany was already planning to perform the ritual to hatch the eggs, this also proves it wasn't just something she didn't plan for as a lot of posters seem to think. She clearly was already planning for it. Also the fact that she started making promises of vengeance against Jhaqo etc, proves she knew that she would get dragon and knew what she would have to do to get them.

Very good observation of Daenerys inability to remember the names of two very important children to her in contrast to remembering that she need her dragons. I didn't make that connection but as you quoted above it's seems so clear now, and the wording is very similar, which I imagine is not a coincidence. *_^

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

“A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.”

I also think this line also shows that Dany is one with her dragon especially when they are flying, hence the hybrid symbolism. Also the Valyrian sphinx is half human half dragon

From ADWD : On Drogon’s back she felt whole.

ASOS: Drogon looped his neck around to nip at her hand. His teeth were very sharp, but he never broke her skin when they played like this. Dany laughed, and rolled him back and forth until he roared, his tail lashing like a whip. It is longer than it was, she saw, and tomorrow it will be longer still. They grow quickly now, and when they are grown I shall have my wings.

I don't think the fact that "No one in the tent, except MMD observed Rhaego's body" is important. According to Jorah, other women saw the body. Their description of it accords with MMD's, right? The knight certainly doesn't contradict her on the matter, and he indicates that he talked to the other women.

The overall question of who sees what, however, is a convoluted one. In the previous Dany POV, we really don't know what anyone other than Dany saw from outside the tent. She observes frightening shadows. She is clearly in very bad shape; her vision can't be taken as clear and accurate. Her thoughts contain a question about her friends: "What was wrong with them, couldn't they see?" She doesn't ask this question. It seems that she can't even talk. Thus, no answer is given. In the current POV, we find out that Jorah did see shadows. He tries to brush this fact off as a matter of little consequence. He tells MIrri, "I saw, maegi. I saw you alone, dancing with the shadows." This, on the face of it, Is a peculiar statement. If Mirri was alone, who or what was casting the shadows? Her answer is clear and frightening. "The grave casts long shadows, Iron Lord." Jorah has no reply to that. He is ashamed. At least he appears that way to Dany, and I think she perceives this matter correctly.

Maybe he just saw shadows and not the shapes?

[MoIaF]

I also think this line also shows that Dany is one with her dragon especially when they are flying, hence the hybrid symbolism. Also the Valyrian sphinx is half human half dragon

From ADWD : On Drogons back she felt whole.

ASOS: Drogon looped his neck around to nip at her hand. His teeth were very sharp, but he never broke her skin when they played like this. Dany laughed, and rolled him back and forth until he roared, his tail lashing like a whip. It is longer than it was, she saw, and tomorrow it will be longer still. They grow quickly now, and when they are grown I shall have my wings.

I think we should include Tyrion's description of the Valyrian sphinx:

"The next evening they came upon a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It had a dragons body and a womans face. A dragon queen, said Tyrion. A pleasant omen. Her king is missing. Illyrio pointed out the smooth stone plinth on which the second sphinx once stood, now grown over with moss and flowering vines. The horselords built wooden wheels beneath him and dragged him back to Vaes Dothrak.

Also, Maester Aemons words:

"The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddle"

Which might pertain to the union of a dragonlord (rider) to their dragon. Once they become one then they'll have full control of their dragon. As Queen Alyanne mentioned above we will see Dany become one with her dragon, of course after much heartache at times for denying her nature.

[Fire Eater]

This is definitely foreshadowing of Daenerys being Azor Ahai, IMO.

I don't think it is evidence that Dany is AA, and I believe she is, but a red herring. As GRRM said: “Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy.”

I don't think Dany is AA, but I do agree that she is the Stallion that Mounts the World. Other than that, you did an excellent job. I think MMD's prophecy refers to Dany dying, and meeting Drogo again in the afterlife.

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run. “... don’t want to wake the dragon".

I hear it's always cold at the Wall, and the wind blowing off it is always cold.

er son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash.

I find this to be a bit sad. MMD may have been concerned about the destruction Rhaego would possibly bring, but he was still an unborn baby. It is sad for a 14 year-old girl like Dany to lose her husband, her home and her child in one night when she had done nothing up to that point to deserve that.

The grave casts long shadows . . . The shadows have touched you too Ser Jorah

This is also the first time we see her using If I look back I am lost. Part of the reason she says that is because the past is so painful, and I think she usually tells herself this when she is feeling a bit lost. Or it could also be a bit of Rhaegar's "it does no good to speak of roads not taken."

found Dany standing over the other dragon's eggs, the two still in their chest [Drogon and Rhaegals' eggs]

I think this foreshadows Dany losing Drogon and Rhaegal at some point. She already loses Drogon in ADwD when he flies away, and I think she may lose Rhaegal in TWoW to possibly the blacks in the second Dance of Dragons. Although, Drogon eventually returns to her to stay, and I think the same could be the case for Rhaegal.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I don't think it is evidence that Dany is AA, and I believe she is, but a red herring. As GRRM said: “Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy.”

I'm going to have to disagree here. Dany's dream with Rhaego doesn't work as a red herring in the literary sense. At this point in the story the reader knows nothing about the legend of AA. GRRM could have easily made Doreah tell the story of AA if he intended for Rhaego's burning heart to be a red herring.

[Fire Eater]

I'm going to have to disagree here. Dany's dream with Rhaego doesn't work as a red herring in the literary sense. At this point in the story the reader knows nothing about the legend of AA. GRRM could have easily made Doreah tell the story of AA if he intended for Rhaego's burning heart to be a red herring.

I was referring to hatching the dragons not Rhaego. My apologies.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

I think we should include Tyrion's description of the Valyrian sphinx:

"The next evening they came upon a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It had a dragons body and a womans face. A dragon queen, said Tyrion. A pleasant omen. Her king is missing. Illyrio pointed out the smooth stone plinth on which the second sphinx once stood, now grown over with moss and flowering vines. The horselords built wooden wheels beneath him and dragged him back to Vaes Dothrak.

Also, Maester Aemons words:

"The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddle"

Which might pertain to the union of a dragonlord (rider) to their dragon. Once they become one then they'll have full control of their dragon. As Queen Alyanne mentioned above we will see Dany become one with her dragon, of course after much heartache at times for denying her nature.

Quaithe and riddles is mentioned at least twice in ADWD

My hope is that Mirri was saying an old prophesy that doesn't nec refer to Drogo or nothing else comes of it, not a fan of an inadvertent prophesy

[MoIaF]

Quaithe and riddles is mentioned at least twice in ADWD

My hope is that Mirri was saying an old prophesy that doesn't nec refer to Drogo or nothing else comes of it, not a fan of an inadvertent prophesy

I think Dany might have thought it a prophecy when it really wasn't one, that's my first inclination. However, as you say MMD could have been reciting words from a different prophecy, however, I don't think we need anymore more prophecies. :D

*****

I forgot to note something in my initial comments:

"Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. Faster, they cried, faster, faster. She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. Faster! the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings."

"And Daenerys Targaryen flew. Wake the dragon The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings."

I had pointed out the first part but I forgot to point out the second. First she begins to melt the stone with her feet and once she begins to fly the stone is gone. This is pretty clear foreshadowing of waking the dragons from stone, as well as foreshadowing of Dany awakening herself as a dragon.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think Dany might have thought it a prophecy when it really wasn't one, that's my first inclination. However, as you say MMD could have been reciting words from a different prophecy, however, I don't think we need anymore more prophecies. :D

*****

I forgot to note something in my initial comments:

"Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. Faster, they cried, faster, faster. She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. Faster! the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings."

"And Daenerys Targaryen flew. Wake the dragon The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings."

I had pointed out the first part but I forgot to point out the second. First she begins to melt the stone with her feet and once she begins to fly the stone is gone. This is pretty clear foreshadowing of waking the dragons from stone, as well as foreshadowing of Dany awakening herself as a dragon.

So you think Dany's 3 dragons are the dragons 'woken from stone' and there will be no more stone dragons hidden anywhere? like in the crypts of winterfell or whatever people say? I think people forget sometimes that her eggs were fossilized for 'eons' before they came to Dany. They were literally balls of stone and only Dany could tell they were anything more.

I have been wondering lately if these dragons are going to be any different from other dragons, since they were the ones 'woken from stone'......... If anything is signifigantly special about them since they were technically 100% dead inside before she put them on the fire. All the connections between her and her dragons; her hearing the 'dragonsong', her being able to feel the warmth of the eggs while no one else can; the fact that she had a half-dragon baby. I just cannot understand the argument that there is nothing special about her. Viserys handled the eggs, so it's not like she was the only Targayren to ever touch them. Her and viserys had the same parents, same brother. If just any Targaryen could make the pyre happen then why is she the only one who noticed anything in close proximity to the eggs? We have no idea how long Illyrio had the eggs before he gave them to her, for all we know he could have let fAegon handle them or Serra (possible Blackfyre wife of Illyrio and mother of Aegon who both have the Old Valyrian blood), and if he did no one ever mentioned a word about warmth or live dragons inside the eggs.

Dany's connection and inherent knowledge of the eggs and what to do with them is supernatural. She is so strong that she doesn't even grieve very long for her dead husband whom she loved. IMO it is because she knew in her heart that their love was only temporary, her eternal love was about to begin with her dragons, a bond has formed that will be stronger than any human relationship she has ever or will ever have, like the Starks and their wolves. Except the difference is, the wolves had a regular birth, no Stark was required to bring them to life. That's why I think her connection with Drogon goes deeper into her blood than any other bond in the books.

[MoIaF]

So you think Dany's 3 dragons are the dragons 'woken from stone' and there will be no more stone dragons hidden anywhere? like in the crypts of winterfell or whatever people say? I think people forget sometimes that her eggs were fossilized for 'eons' before they came to Dany. They were literally balls of stone and only Dany could tell they were anything more.

I have been wondering lately if these dragons are going to be any different from other dragons, since they were the ones 'woken from stone'......... If anything is signifigantly special about them since they were technically 100% dead inside before she put them on the fire. All the connections between her and her dragons; her hearing the 'dragonsong', her being able to feel the warmth of the eggs while no one else can; the fact that she had a half-dragon baby. I just cannot understand the argument that there is nothing special about her. Viserys handled the eggs, so it's not like she was the only Targayren to ever touch them. Her and viserys had the same parents, same brother. If just any Targaryen could make the pyre happen then why is she the only one who noticed anything in close proximity to the eggs? We have no idea how long Illyrio had the eggs before he gave them to her, for all we know he could have let fAegon handle them or Serra (possible Blackfyre wife of Illyrio and mother of Aegon who both have the Old Valyrian blood), and if he did no one ever mentioned a word about warmth or live dragons inside the eggs.

Dany's connection and inherent knowledge of the eggs and what to do with them is supernatural. She is so strong that she doesn't even grieve very long for her dead husband whom she loved. IMO it is because she knew in her heart that their love was only temporary, her eternal love was about to begin with her dragons, a bond has formed that will be stronger than any human relationship she has ever or will ever have, like the Starks and their wolves. Except the difference is, the wolves had a regular birth, no Stark was required to bring them to life. That's why I think her connection with Drogon goes deeper into her blood than any other bond in the books.

Honestly, no I don't think that there are any other types of stone dragons. I haven't seen any textual evidence that would suggest otherwise. As I have been harping about for a long time, the prophecy clearly says "to wake dragon(s) from stone" which means that the whoever this particular person is they will do the awakening not be awoken.

As you can see the passage above shows us that Dany herself is doing the awakening. She will go on to wake literal dragons in the next chapter, which of course is an extraordinary act which the author himself calls a miracle. However, thinking that this is in any way a red herring is completely misinterpreting the text and misunderstanding the arc of Dany's story. Her role in ASOIAF is of great importance and as extraordinary as it was for her to wake the dragons from stone, these same dragons have Im sure an extraordinary role to play in the final two books.

Regarding Danys bond to Drogon, there is substantial evidence of the importance of their bond. Not just as rider and dragon but as mother and children. If we look at Danys dream Drogon has also been a sort of spiritual guide to Dany showing her how to wake the dragons. He came to her before she ever received the dragon eggs, that I think is something that is constantly overlook and I would consider of great importance.

By the way, when GRRM answers the question about the miracle of Dany's dragons he clearly says that Viserys could never have done this. This role was Dany's and Dany's alone. I think this is an integral part of the prophecy which I cannot see anyone else fulfilling.

[SeanF]

I think only Dany could have hatched the eggs, but she couldn't have had hatched them, had the circumstances not been right.

So, she was necessary to hatch them, but she was not sufficient. They hatched, because it was time for them to hatch. It's like Bilbo finding the Ring. It was time for the Ring to be found, but only Bilbo could find it.

And, to make them hatch, she required a victim to be burned alive. She had that victim.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think only Dany could have hatched the eggs, but she couldn't have had hatched them, had the circumstances not been right.

So, she was necessary to hatch them, but she was not sufficient. They hatched, because it was time for them to hatch. It's like Bilbo finding the Ring. It was time for the Ring to be found, but only Bilbo could find it.

And, to make them hatch, she required a victim to be burned alive. She had that victim.

Exactly what I think.

And she needed to have the knowledge to know how to go about it.

[Ser Pollo Loco]

I view it as one or two ways either the timing was right and others Targs tried before they should have or the previous generations Dragon dreams were nec to put Dany in the right set of circumstances.

[Fire Eater]

snip

GRRM clearly stated he doesn't have prophecies fulfilled in a too literal way and easy, and Dany hatching literal dragons from stone, and being declared AA by Aemon and Benerro is too easy.

“Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy.”

If Jon discovers a Targaryen identity, he would be waking a dragon from stone. Dragons in prophecies in D&E have always referred to Targaryens. In TMK, Daemon II thought the prophecy referred to a literal dragon hatching, but it was just Egg.

Alayne Stone

She [Arya] pushed the sword [Needle] and sheath behind the step, then shoved the stone back into place

Skagos meant "stone" in the Old Tongue.

Sansa takes on the pseudonym of Alayne Stone to hide her true name and identity, Arya hides Needle under a stone and finally, Rickon is hiding on Skagos, which means "stone." Stone is associated with hiding something, and a stone dragon could refer to a hidden dragon, or Targaryen.

I do think Dany has an important role to play, just not as AA. I think her dragons also have a role to play as well.

[Nictarion]

GRRM clearly stated he doesn't have prophecies fulfilled in a too literal way and easy, and Dany hatching literal dragons from stone, and being declared AA by Aemon and Benerro is too easy.

But she did that before we ever heard of AA. It's not like we heard the prophecy, and then 2 chapters later someone fulfilled it.

I also think if Dany is a red herring for AA, it be a bit repetitive. We've already had Stannis declared as AA, and turned out to be false.

I'm not convinced it's Dany, I just think it's more likely. If not for the line about Mel seeing Snow, there'd be absolutely no evidence its Jon, compared to quite a bit for Dany.

[MoIaF]

GRRM clearly stated he doesn't have prophecies fulfilled in a too literal way and easy, and Dany hatching literal dragons from stone, and being declared AA by Aemon and Benerro is too easy.

If Jon discovers a Targaryen identity, he would be waking a dragon from stone. Dragons in prophecies in D&E have always referred to Targaryens. In TMK, Daemon II thought the prophecy referred to a literal dragon hatching, but it was just Egg.

Alayne Stone

She [Arya] pushed the sword [Needle] and sheath behind the step, then shoved the stone back into place

Skagos meant "stone" in the Old Tongue.

Sansa takes on the pseudonym of Alayne Stone to hide her true name and identity, Arya hides Needle under a stone and finally, Rickon is hiding on Skagos, which means "stone." Stone is associated with hiding something, and a stone dragon could refer to a hidden dragon, or Targaryen.

I do think Dany has an important role to play, just not as AA. I think her dragons also have a role to play as well.

I'm really tired of the assertion that dragon dream were dragons appear are always about Targaryans when it's simply not true. Daeron saw the return of the dragons - he knew the difference between seeing Targaryan dragons in his dream and seeing real dragons.

"I dreamed of you, said the prince.

You said that at the inn.

Did I? Well, its so. My dreams are not like yours, Ser Duncan. Mine are true. They frighten me. You frighten me. I dreamed of you and a dead dragon, you see. A great beast, huge, with wings so large they could cover this meadow. It had fallen on top of you, but you were alive and the dragon was dead.

Did I kill it?

That I could not say, but you were there, and so was the dragon. We were the masters of dragons once, we Targaryens. Now they are all gone, but we remain. I dont care to die today. The gods alone know why, but I dont. So do me a kindness if you would, and make certain it is my brother Aerion you slay.

I dont care to die either, said Dunk.

Well, I shant kill you, ser. Ill withdraw my accusation as well, but it wont serve unless Aerion withdraws his. He sighed. It may be that Ive killed you with my lie. If so, I am sorry. Im doomed to some hell, I know. Likely one without wine. He shuddered, and on that they parted, there in the cool soft rain."

Here we clearly see that Daeron knew his dream was about a Targaryan. Then Egg says to,Dunk:

"Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daerons dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy."

You don't think that Daeron knew the difference, he had been dreaming for years about them. Besides Daeron's dream according to Egg confirms the prophecy that King Aerys had read. And of course we know of a Targaryen that dreamt of a dragons and real dragons came. BEFORE Dany RECEIVED the dragon eggs from Illyrio she had a dream where she saw a dragon (most likely Drogon). And of course she went on to hatch the dragons.

This proves that dragon dream can be both about figurative and literal dragons.

As for the stone quotes you've provided I'm sorry to tell you but there is nothing new or groundbreaking about authors using stone as a means of concealment. It's quite a common thing to use in literature to hide under a stone. The quote I provided above shows that Dany's literal dragons weren't the only ones awoken from stone. Dany awoke herself as shown in her dream when she melted the stone with her feet and then the stone was gone once she took flight. After the death of her family she had to become a dragon. She struggled with it for four books but at the end of ADWD she finally comes to embrace it.

Not everything that happens in the books is a riddle many things are quite obvious. The dragons are important but Dany awakening herself as a Dragon is what is truly important and what many people are missing.

But she did that before we ever heard of AA. It's not like we heard the prophecy, and then 2 chapters later someone fulfilled it.

I also think if Dany is a red herring for AA, it be a bit repetitive. We've already had Stannis declared as AA, and turned out to be false.

I'm not convinced it's Dany, I just think it's more likely. If not for the line about Mel seeing Snow, there'd be absolutely no evidence its Jon, compared to quite a bit for Dany.

Exactly, Dany is not a red herring, the prophecy will most likely be fulfilled by more than one person. I don't know how many times I've repeated this but GRRM has been quite clear hat this story is not about a one true hero, many will have a hand in the final victory, whatever that may be.

Bringing the discussion back to the theme of the tread, we are begging to see the transformation of Dany in the chapter. She has began to take full control of herself and those around her. She has no one else to rely on now, now she can only rely on herself.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

GRRM clearly stated he doesn't have prophecies fulfilled in a too literal way and easy, and Dany hatching literal dragons from stone.

We've all seen that there was a prophecy that the dragons would return, and someone wakes fossilized dragons after 300 hundred years of their extinction, how is that a red herring?

Dany may or may not be AAR, but she is definitely the one that woke dragons from stone, if she wasn't the one then what was the point of all the "you dont want to wake the dragon" symbols in her dreams etc. The author himself described it as a miracle, how can it be a red herring? At this point in the story the reader knows next to nothing about the AA legend, how is the hatching of the eggs supposed to work as a red herring then?

ETA: The dragons being red herrings seriously undermines Dany's character as it means she lost her husband, son and pretty much everything in AGOT for nothing.

[MoIaF]

I think only Dany could have hatched the eggs, but she couldn't have had hatched them, had the circumstances not been right.

So, she was necessary to hatch them, but she was not sufficient. They hatched, because it was time for them to hatch. It's like Bilbo finding the Ring. It was time for the Ring to be found, but only Bilbo could find it.

And, to make them hatch, she required a victim to be burned alive. She had that victim.

Indeed - Dany having the dragon dream before she got the eggs perhaps in preparation for what was to come.

Dany was the only who could do it, but you're right the right elements needed to be put into place for it to happen. She wasn't going to awaken them just by putting them in a pyre. Sacrifices had to be made, and we know from this chapter that they were many and quite costly to Dany.

[Fire Eater]

see what life is worth when all the rest are gone

A good point as Dany lost her husband, brother and son, and the khalasar that had been her brief home. She is at her lowest point now, having lost almost all she had including her power as a khaleesi. To paraphrase from one of my favorite novels, Siddhartha: sometimes to go up one must come down.

My response to all your responses is here.