IRON BANK Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Good leaders take advice, they dont just charge in and do what they feel is best, that is what boy lords do. And boy lords are the bane of any house. I noticed earlier you said Stannis was a minor character, can you explain what you mean by that? How are you defining this? Stannis is a great leader as I stated to mark antony, however stannis is so conceited he takes Jons advice as if it is his own. Davos is a great main character, and through his pov we are introduced to Stannis. Davos has alot of text. Through Mels pov we also see Stannis, Through Jons pov we see Stannis, and Asha we also see Stannis. I know kings do not get povs however all the kings are dead so Stannis as a minor character is great. It does not make him any less significant. Just not as crucial to the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 You know, I think stannis is the only character that has had a thread dedicated to how funny he is. Whoa there E-Rizzle I love this thread :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'll give Stannis this: he went after the specific people who were giving him trouble: Renly, Cortnay, the cannibals (even though the cannibals had good reason). Christie hurt tens of thousands of innocent people for no reason than his own entertainment. I wouldn't compare the two except Stannis is a far better man than Christie. I agree 100% Christie is a massive ass, even though we arent sure he ordered it, or even knew about it.(I definitely think he did, and as someone that actually lives in jersey this is important to me) Stannis is a million times better then him. All that being said please guys, no more Christie talk, I don't want this to get locked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Stannis is a great leader as I stated to mark antony, however stannis is so conceited he takes Jons advice as if it is his own. When did he take credit for Jon's advice, i am going blank here. Could you provide quotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I'll give Stannis this: he went after the specific people who were giving him trouble or had broken the law: Renly, Cortnay, the cannibals (even though the cannibals had good reason). Christie hurt tens of thousands of innocent people for no reason other than his own entertainment. I wouldn't compare the two except Stannis is a far better man than Christie. Yeah Christie, has his flaws. The bridge closing was petty. If he wants the white house he better stay away from that non sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 When did he take credit for Jon's advice, i am going blank here. Could you provide quotes? you will have to take my word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florina Laufeyson Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 You know, I think stannis is the only character that has had a thread dedicated to how funny he is. Honestly, he is funnier to me then dolerous edd and tyrion. My fave Stannis joke Also, im surprised my post about him being a better commander then robb has not been attacked yet. Still waiting for it. Calling out Marsh is indeed very awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 "I'm the showstopper / the Wall dropper / my horn sounds'zas'yur shit comes down / you shoulda feared it b'fore now / but choo can't hear it cuz how / you gonna hear it when you dead? / You hear dat, Roose? you dead. / Your head all froze up / 'swhy this one goes up / to R'hllor-in-a-blood-red-sky / cuz dis victry is mine / 'twasn't you 'twas I / who made the ice my ride / my bed, my pride / a-place-to-fish-and-fry-while-your-Freys-all-fled / I turned the snow yellow / you made it red / I pissed on your fellows / as they bled / steam hissed off 'a that / frozen tableau of the dead / I...Fell....On....Winter-Fell On Winter-Fell on / Wintr'-don't-fall-on-me / I fall on Winter Fall-on-Winter / Fall on Winter to the SPRING / I fell on Winter / fell on Winter / fell on Wintr'-don't-fall-on-me / I fell upon the Roose and Rams / goddamn you know I'm gonna be KING.I...Fell...On... andon.....and......onBa-Ray-Theee--ONandOnandon to king's landing.I Fell on Winter.....Winter didn't fall on meThat was literally the greatest thing I've ever read. Please, please somebody make this song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 You know, I think stannis is the only character that has had a thread dedicated to how funny he is. Honestly, he is funnier to me then dolerous edd and tyrion. My fave Stannis joke I agree. We already have The Wit and Wisdom of Tyrion Lannister, where's our The Accidental and Intentional Humor and Insights of Stannis Baratheon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 you will have to take my word for it. Because your "Word is true as gold". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornishman Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 A thread from a couple years ago is when I started to enjoy the Stannis character more. I think Davos also shows how important supporting characters are in writing, as without Davos, in both a figurative and literal sense, there is no Stannis. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66319-stannis-humor/ The Stannis humor thread always cheers me up, so many fantastic dry one liners. Godry the Giantslayer - "The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever."Stannis - "Half my army is made up of unbelievers. I will have no burnings. Pray harder." Pray harder....hah, so much win in so few words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Ro Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Stannis is a great leader as I stated to mark antony, however stannis is so conceited he takes Jons advice as if it is his own.What do you mean he takes it as if its his own? HE takes jons advice, yeah. At no point does he say "lol this plan of mine was great!' So im really not sure what you mean here. He never once gives himself props for coming up with the idea to get the mt clans support. Davos is a great main character, and through his pov we are introduced to Stannis. Davos has alot of text. Through Mels pov we also see Stannis, Through Jons pov we see Stannis, and Asha we also see Stannis. I know kings do not get povs however all the kings are dead so Stannis as a minor character is great. It does not make him any less significant. Just not as crucial to the story.Huh? So in order to be a main character you have to have a pov? I guess littlefinger, roose bolton, robb, jof, tywin, etc are all minor characters? What do you even mean by minor character? what is the definition here? Do you mean a person with no pov? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I agree. We already have The Wit and Wisdom of Tyrion Lannister, where's our The Accidental and Intentional Humor and Insights of Stannis Baratheon? Here you go. Video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRON BANK Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 A thread from a couple years ago is when I started to enjoy the Stannis character more. I think Davos also shows how important supporting characters are in writing, as without Davos, in both a figurative and literal sense, there is no Stannis. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/66319-stannis-humor/ Exactly with out Davos, Most of what we read about Stannis would not be their. Davos is truly an interesting read especially when it comes to his devotion toward Stannis and how this reflects on their relationship and helps describe Davos upward mobility through society.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Raven Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 This is one of my all-time favorite threads. When he's not saving the realm and grinding his teeth, he moonlights as an advice columnist. Dear Stannis... http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/63977-dear-stannis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Whores Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The funniest Stannis moment for me is definitely when the crow kept being noisy, so Stannis just turns and commands it to be quiet. The mental image of Stannis Baratheon getting pissed off at a crow and yelling at it is so damn hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
complexphoenix Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I see Stannis as a Faustian character, capable of being good but corrupted by his pact with a malevolent force. He murdered his own brother; I don't buy his bullshit excuse about that at all, nor do I buy Melisandre's. They meant for Renly to die, they took a course of action that was meant to cause his death, and because of it he died. That makes them guilty, and kinslaying is vile. Stannis reduced the size of House Baratheon by a full third and severed the family's alliance with House Tyrell, leading directly to his defeat at the Blackwater. Given that he himself lacked the support to take the throne, he should have gotten behind Renly instead of resorting to kinslaying. As it was, his actions only served to secure the throne for the Lannisters. I often wonder if Stannis screwed over his family forever by burning the godswood of Storm's End. That godswood had a weirwood, one of the last in the South. We know that Storm's End is protected by powerful magic, magic linked to the children of the forest. That magic probably protected the bloodline of Durran, and now there's a good chance it's gone and won't come back. If House Baratheon goes extinct, it will be Stannis' fault. Stannis is a joy to read, endlessly quotable and remarkably endearing in his blunt, sour wit, but I find his moral fiber sorely lacking. He judges others but not himself. He is repeatedly hypocritical, whining to Cressen about how unappreciated he is despite all his service and then treating Cressen himself, despite all his service, like a bag of chopped liver; and talking about the importance of law and then breaking the laws of gods and men by murdering his brother and later offering to make Jon Lord of Winterfell even though Sansa is the lawful heir. He falls prey to the malevolent influence of Melisandre far too easily, and though Davos saves him partway, he ultimately doesn't heed Davos enough to be really saved. If Stannis burns the godswood of Winterfell, he will be well and truly dead in my eyes. He has no right to tell the Northmen how to worship and even less right to burn their ancient trees. He claims to be bringing justice, but he's engaging in thievery of the worst kind, by destroying things that took thousands of years to create, don't belong to him, and cannot be replaced. If any crime is deserving of gruesome death, the burning of weirwoods is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Another thing I want to address here, Stannis as a strategist/tactician. This has been discussed alot, but I feel Stannis is the best commander in the series, topping Robert, Tywin, and even robb. I feel his successes at war outweigh all of theirs(with the exception of robert) and I feel his victories are way more impressive. He traps the greyjoys at fair isle, and smashes them. HE holds se for a year, he annihilates the wildlings at the battle of the wall in storm, and he cleans asha and her ironborn of of deepwood. Pretty impressive, imo. Especially fair isle and the wall. His best victories. The list is quite impressive. I won't get into who is the "best" (because that always degenerates into fanboyism, quibbling over definitions, arguing over what "counts" etc), but rather if Stannis should be considered a "great" general/battle commander or just a good/reliable one. First, Storm's End: This isn't a display of tactical or strategic skill so much as a display of resolve and discipline. Clearly there were mutinous whisperings inside the castle, which Stannis effectively quelled. This is no small feat for an untested lordling still in his teens. But I don't think it suggests that he's a great "battle commander" Fair Isle: A smashing victory, and the one that really sealed his reputation. The Ironborn are supposed to be unrivaled in naval combat, yet Stannis beat them on their own turf and allowed for Robert to consolidate his authority as King. Blackwater: Major marks against Stannis here. Appointing a Florent as naval commander and attacking a fortified position when a major enemy force is still in the field (Tywin and Mace's hosts) were both foolish. I think his loss here came from focusing too much on the Throne itself, rather than the broader war. The Wall: Used the advantage of surprise and the better quality of his troops/equipment to great effect. But as others have pointed out, most lords who were willing to do this probably could have pulled it off, simply because it was the last thing Mance expected and men-at-arms will always beat Wildlings in a battle. Deepwood Motte: This victory came not so much from tactical skill but from political maneuvering. Stannis listens to the good advice of Jon and enlists the Mountain Clans to his side, playing on their hate for the Ironborn and respect for Royal guests. Asha is scared out of the castle into the woods, where her inferior force is crushed by Stannis's. The battle isn't much to write home about (Ironborn fighting Northmen in the wolfswoof, c'mon) but the preparation leading up to it is. So, considering his major defeat and the mitigating factors in some of his victories, I would call Stannis a "good" or "reliable" battle commander at the moment. I think his likely victory against Ramsay/the Freys will be what moves him into "greatness" territory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord rosa Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 "is that a jape" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan the Man Baratheon Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 The list is quite impressive. I won't get into who is the "best" (because that always degenerates into fanboyism, quibbling over definitions, arguing over what "counts" etc), but rather if Stannis should be considered a "great" general/battle commander or just a good/reliable one. First, Storm's End: This isn't a display of tactical or strategic skill so much as a display of resolve and discipline. Clearly there were mutinous whisperings inside the castle, which Stannis effectively quelled. This is no small feat for an untested lordling still in his teens. But I don't think it suggests that he's a great "battle commander" Fair Isle: A smashing victory, and the one that really sealed his reputation. The Ironborn are supposed to be unrivaled in naval combat, yet Stannis beat them on their own turf and allowed for Robert to consolidate his authority as King. Blackwater: Major marks against Stannis here. Appointing a Florent as naval commander and attacking a fortified position when a major enemy force is still in the field (Tywin and Mace's hosts) were both foolish. I think his loss here came from focusing too much on the Throne itself, rather than the broader war. The Wall: Used the advantage of surprise and the better quality of his troops/equipment to great effect. But as others have pointed out, most lords who were willing to do this probably could have pulled it off, simply because it was the last thing Mance expected and men-at-arms will always beat Wildlings in a battle. Deepwood Motte: This victory came not so much from tactical skill but from political maneuvering. Stannis listens to the good advice of Jon and enlists the Mountain Clans to his side, playing on their hate for the Ironborn and respect for Royal guests. Asha is scared out of the castle into the woods, where her inferior force is crushed by Stannis's. The battle isn't much to write home about (Ironborn fighting Northmen in the wolfswoof, c'mon) but the preparation leading up to it is. So, considering his major defeat and the mitigating factors in some of his victories, I would call Stannis a "good" or "reliable" battle commander at the moment. I think his likely victory against Ramsay/the Freys will be what moves him into "greatness" territory You forgot the amphibious assault on DS and Subduing of Great Wyk, largest of Iron Islands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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