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R + L = J v 69


Stubby

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the thing for me that instantly made me believe that Jon was Lyanna's son was when Dany is in the house of the undying and she sees a blue rose growing out of a chink in the ice of giant frozen wall. After that it just instantly clicked for me

An excellent observation! The symbolism of the blue rose is very deep and is explored in this thread:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/82623-jon-snow-and-the-blue-winter-rosetta-stone/

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Still, none of this explains how Varys missed that bit. He's the master spy. Even if he didn't have little birds in Dorne or Winterfell, the very rumors that Cersei heard about Ashara must have made it back to him - the fact that three sworn brothers were missing couldn't have gone unnoticed either.

I've always thought he must have realized.

Interesting thing GRRM says in a recent interview, that could be of indication that R + L = J reveal will happen in WoW. (10.20 onward www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFAGknnoRio)

"There are certain things I'm laying clues for that there will be revelations later on. Some people have put together those clues as early as 1998 - adding things together" ... "These people have guessed a secret that I'm going to reveal in book 6, people have already guessed that when book two was just out."

OUCH.

I'm torn between excited and terrified. It's going to be the angstier thirty pages of the Epic Saga of Brooding Jon Snow, and totally not pretty.

It might be Lyanna=TKOLT, Aegon is alive, Syrio=Jaqen, why Tyrion is a giant,...

I'd wager that not only one secret is to be revealed.

Tyrion being a giant is just a nice touch from GRRM, no need to read anything into it. The TKOLT bit was only introduced in ASOS, so it's out, Syrio's definitely dead, and I don't think anyone had even started speculating back in '98 - I was four myself, so I couldn't say :P but it seems to me that the first hint of Aegon' (potential) role in the story is the House of the Undying, but I think it's a pretty good guess it took most of the fans a while to go from 'wow, this is what the title means' to 'OMG Aegon must be alive' and fans 'guessed when the book was just out'.

It could be the House of the U., but I doubt the latter because that's more of a series of foreshadowings than a straight-out mystery. The only big mysteryes laid out in the first two books are Jon's parentage (if this is the theory, then GRRM's phrasing makes it sound like R+L it's a given, saying that the fan guessed) and the PtwP (I'll be happy if this is the theory cleared out, but that sounds like a matter for the last book).

So, again, OUCH.

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A quick Comics updating from issue #18. Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Kindle copy to be released and had to scan from paper. Blame my scanner for the low quality ;)


Here you'll find a short gallery portraying Ned's dungeons dream.


Now besides the usual 'busty jokes' lol I'd point out Lyanna's smile while receiving the crown. As for the crown, it's so much more than a simple garland of flowers. Its peculiar design brings me back to J. Stargaryen's analysis about the blue rose and the crown of love and beauty symbolism. Rhaegar put a royal symbol on Lyanna's lap. Literally. A royal gift borne of love. Not to mention that crown spike pressing into Lyanna's midsection *hint, hint*


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A quick Comics updating from issue #18. Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Kindle copy to be released and had to scan from paper. Blame my scanner for the low quality ;)

Here you'll find a short gallery portraying Ned's dungeons dream.

Now besides the usual 'busty jokes' lol I'd point out Lyanna's smile while receiving the crown. As for the crown, it's so much more than a simple garland of flowers. Its peculiar design brings me back to J. Stargaryen's analysis about the blue rose and the crown of love and beauty symbolism. Rhaegar put a royal symbol on Lyanna's lap. Literally. A royal gift borne of love. Not to mention that crown spike pressing into Lyanna's midsection *hint, hint*

Very interesting indeed...

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A quick Comics updating from issue #18. Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Kindle copy to be released and had to scan from paper. Blame my scanner for the low quality ;)

Here you'll find a short gallery portraying Ned's dungeons dream.

Now besides the usual 'busty jokes' lol I'd point out Lyanna's smile while receiving the crown. As for the crown, it's so much more than a simple garland of flowers. Its peculiar design brings me back to J. Stargaryen's analysis about the blue rose and the crown of love and beauty symbolism. Rhaegar put a royal symbol on Lyanna's lap. Literally. A royal gift borne of love. Not to mention that crown spike pressing into Lyanna's midsection *hint, hint*

It's interesting that the artist chose to depict the QoLaB crown as an actual crown. And then how in the last panel you uploaded is Ned is holding the crown (complete with blue roses) when Lyanna says "Promise me, Ned." Which is also the same panel where one of the spikes is pointing right at her midsection. Promise her what, I wonder. ;) Yeah, I think the artist went out of his way to provide very strong R+L=J and marriage clues for the audience.

Btw, is it just me or do the shadows have a dragon-like appearance?

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A quick Comics updating from issue #18. Unfortunately I'm still waiting for my Kindle copy to be released and had to scan from paper. Blame my scanner for the low quality ;)

Here you'll find a short gallery portraying Ned's dungeons dream.

Now besides the usual 'busty jokes' lol I'd point out Lyanna's smile while receiving the crown. As for the crown, it's so much more than a simple garland of flowers. Its peculiar design brings me back to J. Stargaryen's analysis about the blue rose and the crown of love and beauty symbolism. Rhaegar put a royal symbol on Lyanna's lap. Literally. A royal gift borne of love. Not to mention that crown spike pressing into Lyanna's midsection *hint, hint*

Wow, now that puts things in perspectve. But, who is her friend? Young Lady Whent?

And if so, where is she now?

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FF3 ... :bowdown: Thanks for that!



JS ... I think you're right. A dragon for sure.



Alia ... That's a keen observation and a good question. Presumably her brothers all died in the Rebellion, but what could have happened to the young lady? The only living Whent females ever mentioned are Wynafrei (married to Danwell Frey) and Shella (who was an old woman and reportedly dead by the end of Feast)


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Goldilocks in the images is likely to be Cersei. She would be slighted, if present. ;)

I don't think she was though - again, did GRRM approve this? Or else it's only (lovely) speculation

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It's interesting that the artist chose to depict the QoLaB crown as an actual crown. And then how in the last panel you uploaded is Ned is holding the crown (complete with blue roses) when Lyanna says "Promise me, Ned." Which is also the same panel where one of the spikes is pointing right at her midsection. Promise her what, I wonder. ;) Yeah, I think the artist went out of his way to provide very strong R+L=J and marriage clues for the audience.

Btw, is it just me or do the shadows have a dragon-like appearance?

They do. And such a detail echoes another dream of Ned, where he faces - in quite a stark fashion ;) - his sister's statue in the crypts. A huge shadow of peculiar shape looms behind Lyanna... Same midsection emphasis btw.

Oh wow, yes, that's a huge crown, and an actual spiky one, too. Never expected that.

Is that GRRM-approved?

I don't think she was though - again, did GRRM approve this? Or else it's only (lovely) speculation

Here is your answer, from the very word of the authors.

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On Cersei, hadn't she already gone back to Casterly Rock?

(And is yellow her family's "color")?

The dream is a twisted mix of memory and nightmare, as Ned puts it. I believe it's Cersei, looking quite in a sour mood. This is probably both an author wink to the 'educated' reader who's well aware of Cersei's feelings toward Rhaegar and the visual result of Ned's jumbled mind after all the Cersei related havoc in his life ;)

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Goldilocks in the images is likely to be Cersei. She would be slighted, if present. ;)

And the fact that Rhaegar rejected Cersei also plays into that scene; when Rhaegar chose Lyanna over her I thinks that what he did showed to me that Lyanna had qualities that he find desirable.

Cersei didn't, and she wound up with a unhappy marriage, 3 bastard children by Jaime, and now that Maggy the Frog's prophecy is beginning to fulfill itself with Joffrey's death, and I am sure Tommen and Myrcella will soon follow him into death.

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On Cersei, hadn't she already gone back to Casterly Rock?

(And is yellow her family's "color")?

It's mentioned in the books that she is pissed because her golden dress "shrank", so I guess that yellow= golden here.

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They do. And such a detail echoes another dream of Ned, where he faces - in quite a stark fashion ;) - his sister's statue in the crypts. A huge shadow of peculiar shape looms behind Lyanna... Same midsection emphasis btw.

Here is your answer, from the very word of the authors.

I can't make out the shape behind Lyanna's statue. What do you see?

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I think it's a dragon's claw.

Which reminds me - the point is made about Longclaw not getting renamed, because a long claw works for both wolves and bears. But a dragon has claws, too - no? Another small hint probably of Jon being of mixed / undefined identity?

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