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Possible... although I think dragons are not inherently unwargable for non-Targs; I can imagine Arya or Bran chainging into a dragon's skin too...

Well actually they are inherently unwargable, you have to look at the magic. Remember Dragons, the wall, warging, the Others are all magic. So much of the books is around politics and human nature that they forget about the magic to often.

Magic comes in three forms in Westeros. Fire, Ice and Nature. Warging is nature and not inherently compatible with Ice or fire. 3, stars, that 3 colors have been symbolic of this magic. The green star from Dunk and egg, go look at the scene again, look at Dunks sigil. The red star or comet, and the blue star of the celestial bodied dragon. And the balance is off, The children used to dominate Westeros, not a lot of fire or ice. But the first men came killed a lot of them. The balance became off set, nature became week. So ice magic began to overwhelm and the Others came. Then came the long night. Darkness, it's a yin yang concept. But along comes light bringer the natural counter balance to darkness, and was joined with the children and they overwhelmed the Others. So the children had gotten weaker again and the Others had gotten weak, nature and Ice are out of balance now. So the rise fire, Valyria. Then fire starts to take over the world, but something destroys Valyria. Probably the children using the crazy powerful weapon they use. So the children are weak, the others are weak and the Dragons are weak, cause some survived. A sort of balance was struck.

But about 100 years ago the dragons died. The reason they were sick and weak towards the end is because the comet comes and goes.

But it's back, but fire is still weak because it's source is only three young dragons. 3 sources of magic exist but two are weak. The children are dying off, and fire has only three young dragons. Magic gets gets stronger around certain sources, the Dragons, the Wall and the Children. Those are the three sources of magic in the world.

As green magic is nature magic, it is tied to nature. You notice none of the Wargs have warged an Ice creature either. But that doesn't make it impossible, because the 3 colors seek unity. Mel is stronger at the wall she can't do Ice magic, but she can feel the magic. People have stated there magic is greater around the dragons. These are sources of power. What happens when red light, blue light, and green light over lap in balanced amounts? You get white light. But it does something else when red, blue and green are mixed outside of light it creates black.

In order for Jon to warg a dragon, he needs the fire within him or he will burn. In order for Jon to Warg ice he needs the ice within him, and warging is green magic is already part of him. Not on Brans level but it is part of him. A person must become all three in order to bring the light. Martin picked those colors for a reason and symbolized the magic with them. It's not 4 types of magic or 5, it's 3. 3 that make one.

Speculation, I don't think you can warg a dragon till the fire is with in you. It's two different types of magic, and the person has to be connected to them to use it. You know there is a reason that within a person these magics represent different aspects. Green is nature and magic of the mind, Red is fire and magic of the soul or energy notice how it brings people back. Blue magic is Ice the body, hard, frozen. Fire on the inside, ice on the outside. It's not about ice and fire there are 3 magics. The children are called singers, Song of Ice and Fire. Well it's my best guess anyway.

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If I knew what you were missing, I could elaborate.

Certainly Catherine of Aragon didn't do such a thing, but some posit the theory that Elia might have.

A perspective:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/97085-exploring-the-parallels-between-the-children-of-the-forest-first-men-andals-rhoynar-and-british-history/

Well, the link you provided is about still births, a phantom pregnancy, one heir who died quickly after birth (a boy) and one living heir (a girl). I don't really see how this related to Ashara and Elia and a possible switch. Are you perhaps suggesting that Elia's child died during birth and baby Aegon was actually a child of Ashara's? Or are you pointing towards the still births, since Ashara is said to have had one?

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Well, the link you provided is about still births, a phantom pregnancy, one heir who died quickly after birth (a boy) and one living heir (a girl). I don't really see how this related to Ashara and Elia and a possible switch. Are you perhaps suggesting that Elia's child died during birth and baby Aegon was actually a child of Ashara's? Or are you pointing towards the still births, since Ashara is said to have had one?

Yes, and I'm sorry, that was abrupt, (working and lurking on my lunchbreak), yes, both have been theories that have been posited, but more the prior.

I tend to gravitate towards looking through historical and classical prisms, (though this is a work of fiction and the Author will tweak characters and outcomes), when trying to ferret out the direction the story is going.

And while I in no way compare Rhaegar with Henry VIII, (thats more Maegor the Cruel), Rhaegar did take measures to secure what he needed in terms of his heirs, and I don't even think what he did was extraoridnary given his time and his position.

If I had to make a comparison to a historical parallel, it might be more king John, (and again not an exact character match), who put aside his first wife for being barren to marry the king of France's niece, Isabella of Angoulume, whom John did also kidnap.

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Well actually they are inherently unwargable, you have to look at the magic. Remember Dragons, the wall, warging, the Others are all magic. So much of the books is around politics and human nature that they forget about the magic to often.

Magic comes in three forms in Westeros. Fire, Ice and Nature. Warging is nature and not inherently compatible with Ice or fire. 3, stars, that 3 colors have been symbolic of this magic. The green star from Dunk and egg, go look at the scene again, look at Dunks sigil. The red star or comet, and the blue star of the celestial bodied dragon. And the balance is off, The children used to dominate Westeros, not a lot of fire or ice. But the first men came killed a lot of them. The balance became off set, nature became week. So ice magic began to overwhelm and the Others came. Then came the long night. Darkness, it's a yin yang concept. But along comes light bringer the natural counter balance to darkness, and was joined with the children and they overwhelmed the Others. So the children had gotten weaker again and the Others had gotten weak, nature and Ice are out of balance now. So the rise fire, Valyria. Then fire starts to take over the world, but something destroys Valyria. Probably the children using the crazy powerful weapon they use. So the children are weak, the others are weak and the Dragons are weak, cause some survived. A sort of balance was struck.

But about 100 years ago the dragons died. The reason they were sick and weak towards the end is because the comet comes and goes.

But it's back, but fire is still weak because it's source is only three young dragons. 3 sources of magic exist but two are weak. The children are dying off, and fire has only three young dragons. Magic gets gets stronger around certain sources, the Dragons, the Wall and the Children. Those are the three sources of magic in the world.

As green magic is nature magic, it is tied to nature. You notice none of the Wargs have warged an Ice creature either. But that doesn't make it impossible, because the 3 colors seek unity. Mel is stronger at the wall she can't do Ice magic, but she can feel the magic. People have stated there magic is greater around the dragons. These are sources of power. What happens when red light, blue light, and green light over lap in balanced amounts? You get white light. But it does something else when red, blue and green are mixed outside of light it creates black.

In order for Jon to warg a dragon, he needs the fire within him or he will burn. In order for Jon to Warg ice he needs the ice within him, and warging is green magic is already part of him. Not on Brans level but it is part of him. A person must become all three in order to bring the light. Martin picked those colors for a reason and symbolized the magic with them. It's not 4 types of magic or 5, it's 3. 3 that make one.

Speculation, I don't think you can warg a dragon till the fire is with in you. It's two different types of magic, and the person has to be connected to them to use it. You know there is a reason that within a person these magics represent different aspects. Green is nature and magic of the mind, Red is fire and magic of the soul or energy notice how it brings people back. Blue magic is Ice the body, hard, frozen. Fire on the inside, ice on the outside. It's not about ice and fire there are 3 magics. The children are called singers, Song of Ice and Fire. Well it's my best guess anyway.

That's all possible, but I think we lack actual textual evidence to know just about anything about the wargability of dragons. The fact that the old Valyrians kept away from Westeros, and that we have never seen dragons being used against First Men armies, means that there's no precedent either way - and I tend to think that's intentional. So far, all we know is that the dragons have the mental capacity of dogs - and that dogs are easily wargable.

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Yes, and I'm sorry, that was abrupt, (working and lurking on my lunchbreak), yes, both have been theories that have been posited, but more the prior.

I tend to gravitate towards looking through historical and classical prisms, (though this is a work of fiction and the Author will tweak characters and outcomes), when trying to ferret out the direction the story is going.

And while I in no way compare Rhaegar with Henry VIII, (thats more Maegor the Cruel), Rhaegar did take measures to secure what he needed in terms of his heirs, and I don't even think what he did was extraoridnary given his time and his position.

If I had to make a comparison to a historical parallel, it might be more king John, (and again not an exact character match), who put aside his first wife for being barren to marry the king of France's niece, Isabella of Angoulume, whom John did also kidnap.

?She was the king's niece? I know that she was of a prominent family, very young and very beautiful, and betrothed to another on top of it (ring any familiar bells? :D) She also bore John's heir :P

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Alert:

Supposedly (emphasis on supposedly) , the theory that Aegon is a brightflame has been confirmed.

I saw it on my FB westeros link, but I don't have time right now to double back to the source of confirmation.

If, and again, big if, this is true, wouldnt his claim then trump Dany or Jons?

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?She was the king's niece? I know that she was of a prominent family, very young and very beautiful, and betrothed to another on top of it (ring any familiar bells? :D) She also bore John's heir :P

Pretty sure she was, will go back and check, but yes, it does ring lots of bells, :)

Edit: Granddaughter of king Louis VI.

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Alert:

Supposedly (emphasis on supposedly) , the theory that Aegon is a brightflame has been confirmed.

I saw it on my FB westeros link, but I don't have time right now to double back to the source of confirmation.

If, and again, big if, this is true, wouldnt his claim then trump Dany or Jons?

Ran said on twitter : There's a special pleasure in having a long-held theory confirmed. #TWoIaF #ASoIaF

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Well the Valyrians didn't decide to stay away from Westeros. The picked Essos. Most likely because it was on there back door. The Targs picked Westeros and didn't seem to have any fear of the north. In fact we know 3 of them that went to the wall.

At no point is it suggested that Targs fear wargs. However we do have some examples of Wargning. Bloodrave is not trying to teach Brandon to Warg Wights, we see in multiple POV's that Wargs feel what the animals feel. The flesh of the animal, the fur, the heartbeat. Dragons and Wights are different, there is no heartbeat with a Wight. If a warg feels that I don't think they will react well. That cold or that heat as well. Dragons are an inferno on the inside, and the Others are ice. We know Wargs will feel that, and I don't think it will feel good.

But taking the fire within? When Thoros revived Beric he stated he filled him with fire. With Mel her blood is black and smokes like Drogons, she states the fire is within her. So while not a lot of clues there are some. More than there are that the Valyrians feared Wargs. The Targs could of gone to Essos, they came to Westeros, they have been north, they have faced the first men, they have been to the wall. The magics are based in specific orders, Nature, fire, Ice. And one does not trump the other, they are just different. Fire and Nature are weak right now, though fire is growing. Ice is entering an apex.

On a side note I would also suggest the Horn Joramun is actually the Children who have the ability to smash large things. But that is getting way off topic.

So while what I say is not fact and I am not claiming it is, I think people should keep it in mind, that alternatives exist.

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Alert:

Supposedly (emphasis on supposedly) , the theory that Aegon is a brightflame has been confirmed.

I saw it on my FB westeros link, but I don't have time right now to double back to the source of confirmation.

If, and again, big if, this is true, wouldnt his claim then trump Dany or Jons?

Huh, I didn't see the Aegon reference on FB Alia, just the cryptic news feed that a "long-held theory" (of Ran's?) had been confirmed.

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Alert:

Supposedly (emphasis on supposedly) , the theory that Aegon is a brightflame has been confirmed.

I saw it on my FB westeros link, but I don't have time right now to double back to the source of confirmation.

If, and again, big if, this is true, wouldnt his claim then trump Dany or Jons?

Whoah.... that would be quite a spoiler!

What would it mean for camp Blackfyre, though? Could he be a union of both lineages? A male Brightflame and female Blackfyre, as we know the male Blackfyre lineage to be extinct?

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Whoah.... that would be quite a spoiler!

What would it mean for camp Blackfyre, though? Could he be a union of both lineages? A male Brightflame and female Blackfyre, as we know the male Blackfyre lineage to be extinct?

Thats exactly where I speculated Aerion would have gotten his bride. Renember his elitism was very like Viserys and he had no sisters, so the only other dragons would be Blackfyres.

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Hi UVA!!! :)

Yes, when I trolled back to find out, nothing really. The Aegon theory had been one of the first.

Hey!!

I agree with some others -- I think this theory is most likely something to do with world-building in the TWOIAF as opposed to a significant plot point/secret unfortunately.

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Thats exactly where I speculated Aerion would have gotten his bride. Renember his elitism was very like Viserys and he had no sisters, so the only other dragons would be Blackfyres.

Now, this is peculiar. He had an infant son who was in the succession line for the throne, i.e. no bastard, but it is not stated whom he married - I doubt his wife was a Blackfyre because it would have been mentioned somewhere by now. However, the wiki states that he may have fathered some bastards in Lys, and who was from Lys? Serra.

Oh, BTW: how do we know that the male Blackfyre line is extinct? We know that the last official descendant was Maelys, but can we be so sure that there were no other, hidden offspring?

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Butterbumps is speculating it is one of Rans long held theories like Valyrians have actual dragon blood in them. It does seem to be World book related, so probably not a major plot reveal. If we are lucky we will know in 9 months, if we are lucky. Seems like a publicity move though. Starting the WoIaF hype, because there is zero information in the post. I think you will be seeing a few of these over the coming months.

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Oh, BTW: how do we know that the male Blackfyre line is extinct? We know that the last official descendant was Maelys, but can we be so sure that there were no other, hidden offspring?

You mean Mance Rayder, origin unknown, who was taken alive as a child by the Nights Watch from a "wildling raiding party"?

As he's described as a man in middle years that would fit with the War of the Ninepenny Kings 40 years back - and he does set some store by his cloak of red and black :cool4:

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