Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

sam90

R'hllor?

Recommended Posts

I am not quite sure what is this god. He seems very active in Westeros, contrary to the old gods and the sevens.



Davos, the onion Knight refer to R'hollor as a demon god and for good reasons, since he witnessed firsthand that shadow Melissandre gave birth and killed Renly Baratheon.



But then why is he called The Lord of Light? That seems like a positive name to me.



While I think Melissandre is dealing in black magic and has an hidden agenda to convert the Seven Kingdoms to the worship of The Lord Of Light, I cannot say the same for Thoros Of Mir.



He looks to me like a decent men and not evil at all.




I am confused about R'Hollor and this Lord Of Light religion. I would like you perspective. Please no spoiler beyond A Storm Of Swords. Thank you.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with real life, on every side there are bad guys and good guys on the same side. Like with the christian faith, you get your do-gooders, and then you have your westboro baptist extremists.



Melisandre is definitely the extremist, but truly feels shes doing good. And why not? She's gotten evidence of her faith being rewarded (trust me, keep reading, there is even a Melisandre POV chapter or two for your enjoyment ;))



Thoros is the do-gooder, and typically does his best to do good for his group without forcing his ideals down everyones throat. Hell, he came from being a drunkard to a relatively decent person. I always felt the brotherhood without banners, if anyone would be, were the best group for the common man.



It all depends on which gifts you take from Rhllor as a whole, and how your gifts manifest within his faith (Think how mutants come of age in the marvel universe, it's kinda random what powers youll inherit, but in this case it directly relates to your faith in Rhllor).



Some people believe the real war going on, and the final battle will be Rhllor vs The Great Other (Fire vs Ice). There is that comet in the sky, glowing red, hanging in the balance, as well as the threat of the Others slowly approaching. That isn't a spoiler, just an idea I had.



In regards to Rhllor being the Lord of Light, Martin to me does a good job in relating Rhllor to Lucifer, the actual fallen angel. In christian faith, he was an angel of morning, angel of light. I dont know if thats where George was getting his inspiration from, but it does seem apparent to me.



Melisandre sees Rhllor, as God of Flame. Flame gives off light, so light is included in his authority. Light creates shadow, which would then in turn also be in his authority.



To a modern day Satanist, Rhllor is definitely the way I'd choose to go ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for your perspective. I will keep reading and I can't wait for those Melissandre POV chapters. I am not espcially fond of the character but might be I will learn more about her faith and purpose.



It just feels from the point (nearing the end of ASOS) as if R'hllor is very much active in Westeros and gaining ground, while the old gods are fading away while the sevens are at a loss. It's just an impression perhaps.



The comparison R'hllor - Lucifer does make sens. Also, the flames, ritual sacrifices, black magics ect that Mellisandre is dabbling with may be perceived and compared to some sort of satanism practice.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not quite sure what is this god. He seems very active in Westeros, contrary to the old gods and the sevens.

Davos, the onion Knight refer to R'hollor as a demon god and for good reasons, since he witnessed firsthand that shadow Melissandre gave birth and killed Renly Baratheon.

But then why is he called The Lord of Light? That seems like a positive name to me.

While I think Melissandre is dealing in black magic and has an hidden agenda to convert the Seven Kingdoms to the worship of The Lord Of Light, I cannot say the same for Thoros Of Mir.

He looks to me like a decent men and not evil at all.

I am confused about R'Hollor and this Lord Of Light religion. I would like you perspective. Please no spoiler beyond A Storm Of Swords. Thank you.

Actually, if you read the books 1-3 cloesly (I'm in the middle of ASoS myself) I think you could make a case for all the religions being somewhat active in their own ways, or at least in the minds of the characters.

The 7 new Gods, the Old God's and the Fire God R'hllor all have instances in those books that you could point and say they are really there in Westeros.

This, it just so happens, is coinciding with the return of magic and dragons, coincidence ... I personally don't think so.

I would say all those religions have basis in magic, and so with magic returning the original reasons they were set up are returning with that magic.

There is a great small quote by a character, maybe a Bravosy where he says how those Fire priests are always chanting and burning things over in a City in Essos which suggests he is obviously incredibly sceptical of the non sense they are up to. But for hundreds of years there has been a decline in magic, so of course people are bound to be sceptical as the real powers of these religions ... all of them ... has faded into almost nothing.

But now, finally, we have evidence they are returning.

People are even quite mocking of Thoros of Myr and his fire sword. When referenced in Book 1 about his performance in tournaments people often sort of laugh at the nutcase running around with a flaming sword and find him quite silly and think of his sword as a kind of parlour trick.

As for R'hllor also think about what Melisandre says, Shadow's serve the good because how can you have Shadow's without light?

Like all religion its a matter of perspective.

I wouldn't personally compare the religion of the Lord of Light to Satanism or anything like that, however there is definately a darkness at the outer edges of the info we get about the religion as a whole.

'The Night is Dark and Full of Terror's' can sound sinister or positive depending on your perspective, and it was implicated by Davos I believe that Stannis failure at The Battle of Kings Landing was a direct punishment for not taking along Melisandre and that the wildfire was a sign of retribution almost.

But, and don't forget this is entirely possible too, there is always the outside chance that prophesies and proof of God's are ultimately fake and priests and the religious simply twist events that ahppy to fit their religious prophecies and characters believe certain things based on their religious upbringing and convictions and so their perspectives on things are biased and need to be read sceptically. One of the great literary devices of the series is eveything is written from in character perspective, all of are info is an interpretation, so who is to say what is entirely true and what is entirely false?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for your perspective. I will keep reading and I can't wait for those Melissandre POV chapters. I am not espcially fond of the character but might be I will learn more about her faith and purpose.

It just feels from the point (nearing the end of ASOS) as if R'hllor is very much active in Westeros and gaining ground, while the old gods are fading away while the sevens are at a loss. It's just an impression perhaps.

The comparison R'hllor - Lucifer does make sens. Also, the flames, ritual sacrifices, black magics ect that Mellisandre is dabbling with may be perceived and compared to some sort of satanism practice.

haha i wont get into satanism too deeply out here in the open, but if you watch the show, there is a scene in season three where melisandre pretty much insinuates to Thoros that his purpose was to spread the word of rhllor in kings landing and to robert baratheon, to which thoros admitted fault bc robert died. this scene doesnt take place in the books.

they are deliberately trying to spread the word of rhllor, and are attempting to eliminate the faith of the seven

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×