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Small Questions v 10022


Stubby

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How much/many of the MUSH family trees are reliable? Is it just the Targ and Stark trees that have canonical updates from the World book are they both fully or only partially updated?

IIRC, every change between 1.0 and 2.0 can be considered canon, and in line with the World book. I'm not sure what that means for the Targaryen, I'd have to check, but it mostly involved the Dance of the Dragons time area, bot necessarily the generations after that.

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I never understood why Tywin didn't just marry Sansa himself. He could have had his heirs (he didn't know if Jaime would make it back alive) it seems like such a slip for such a smart man.

Maybe deep down he just couldn't imagine having anyone but Joanna. Not exactly a SQ though. :)

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I thought that too until whores, ok 1 who're found her way to his bed

Taking a bedwarmer is a lot different than taking a wife, though it does seem like a bit of a loophole that could have been closed a bit better, unless he knew that the North would never take to him as Lord of WF and was just looking for a place to get rid of Tyrion that wouldn't seem like a public slight.

Probably not a small question but is Mance Craster's son?

I'm not sure of the answer but I thought I would point out that the subject of Craster is another one of those things that is oddly absent on the SSMs. I mean surely someone in the last fifteen years has asked GRRM about him yet.... :)

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I never understood why Tywin didn't just marry Sansa himself. He could have had his heirs (he didn't know if Jaime would make it back alive) it seems like such a slip for such a smart man.

Even in Westeros, such a marriage would be much frowned upon. It would be clear to everybody that Tywin is forcing himself on a barely flowered girl. It would be almost paedophillia, and Tywin doesn't need such a stain on the Lannister name, given that his children are the twincest Queen regent and Kingslayer, and the whoring-drinking devil-monkey.

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disrupts my English when writing!

I just wanted to know about the Targaryen succession. If the bastards men have more rights than women.

Legitimized bastards would most likely come before the women in line for the throne, though I believe that all trueborns would come first, even if they are younger than said bastard. In line for the throne, women will be considered last.

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I never understood why Tywin didn't just marry Sansa himself. He could have had his heirs (he didn't know if Jaime would make it back alive) it seems like such a slip for such a smart man.

Marrying Tyrion to Sansa would also conveniently put Tyrion at Winterfell, which would make it impossible for him to become Lore of Casterly Rock, giving Tywin more credit to give the Rock to Tommen, a son of Joffrey, or Jaime, if he had been able to get Jamie's vows released.

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Probably not a small question but is Mance Craster's son?

If we believe Gilly, either Mance or Dalla must have been Craster's.

Mance is the son of a wildling woman and a man from the Night's Watch. No relation to Craster has ever been mentioned.

Here is the quote.

"We could name the little one Maester, if you like, When he's old enough, not now. We could."

"Maester is not a name. You could call him Aemon, though."

Gilly thought about that. "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name, Aemon Battleborn, Aemon Steelsong."

A name even my lord father might like. A warrior's name. The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson after all. He had none of Sam's craven blood.

"Yes. Call him that."

"When he is two." she promised, "not before."

AFfC C 35 Samwell III p746

The fandom argument is if either Gilly knew Mance to be her brother or otherwise Sam's mind has been mangled up on account of the baby-swap.

edit for chapter and page nums.

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If we believe Gilly, either Mance or Dalla must have been Craster's.

Here is the quote.

AFfC C 35 Samwell III p746

The fandom argument is if either Gilly knew Mance to be her brother or otherwise Sam's mind has been mangled up on account of the baby-swap.

edit for chapter and page nums.

I think Sam meant born to Mance but being raised by Craster's daughter.

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I think Sam meant born to Mance but being raised by Craster's daughter.

This is what is going on. The fact that Sam mentions he has none of his cravens blood, is because he's going to lie and say the babe is his son. But Sam himself won't be around to see the child grow up. Genetically, the child will be more like Mance (son) and in strength of mind and such, he'll be like his foster mother Gilly, who learned everything she knew from Craster (hence the grandson part).

There is a quote in the books about Mance's parents, though I can't go looking for it right now. It was a man from the night's watch who got a wildling woman pregnant (and since Craster wouldn't allow a man to do that to a wife/daughter of his, it's not one of his girls). The girl showed up at the shadow tower with the babe, and the NW took the child in to raise him as a man of the NW.

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There is a quote in the books about Mance's parents, though I can't go looking for it right now. It was a man from the night's watch who got a wildling woman pregnant (and since Craster wouldn't allow a man to do that to a wife/daughter of his, it's not one of his girls). The girl showed up at the shadow tower with the babe, and the NW took the child in to raise him as a man of the NW.

That is the official story but where does the tolerance of Craster against the NW originating from? What if that girl took the boy offered to the Others and delivered him to Shadow Tower? Craster was a prickly old man, Mance is quite prickly too.

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That is the official story but where does the tolerance of Craster against the NW originating from? What if that girl took the boy offered to the Others and delivered him to Shadow Tower? Craster was a prickly old man, Mance is quite prickly too.

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Mance has deserted. Should the girl have been Crasters daughter/wife, Crasters hate against the NW would have increased. First they got his wife/daughter pregnant, next they stole his human sacrifice.

Also, if Mance was related to Craster, the NW wouldn't trust Mance either, seeing as how Mance had sworn a vow, and then broke it.

Also, Craster shows no love for Mance at all.

The fact that they are both prickly by nature doesn't say anything :) also, Mance isn't all that prickly, imho

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This is all I can find for Mance:

“He liked women, Mance did, and he was not a man whose
knees bent easily, that’s true. But it was more than that. He loved the wild better than the Wall. It
was in his blood. He was wildling born, taken as a child when some raiders were put to the
sword. When he left the Shadow Tower he was only going home again.”

It was Craster who was the Black Brother's bastard:

She punched him again. “Craster’s more your kind than ours. His father was a crow who stole a
woman out of Whitetree village, but after he had her he flew back t’ his Wall. She went t’ Castle
Black once t’ show the crow his son, but the brothers blew their horns and run her off. Craster’s
blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse.”
There may be more in there about Mance's parents but it's way too late for me to keep hunting(and we're verging out of SQ territory). :)
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This is what is going on. The fact that Sam mentions he has none of his cravens blood, is because he's going to lie and say the babe is his son. But Sam himself won't be around to see the child grow up. Genetically, the child will be more like Mance (son) and in strength of mind and such, he'll be like his foster mother Gilly, who learned everything she knew from Craster (hence the grandson part).

There is a quote in the books about Mance's parents, though I can't go looking for it right now. It was a man from the night's watch who got a wildling woman pregnant (and since Craster wouldn't allow a man to do that to a wife/daughter of his, it's not one of his girls). The girl showed up at the shadow tower with the babe, and the NW took the child in to raise him as a man of the NW.

That's the description of Craster's background actually. About Mance all we know is that he was wildling born, found as child and raised by the NW. Interesting discussion going on about this here.

eta-- and Mindchap nicely provided the quotes :)

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