Does Ghost really belong to Jon?

[Mithras]

I know wolves cannot be tamed 100% but still Ghost sometimes acts too weird, not like anything we saw in Summer or the other wolves.

The best warg experience other than Jon is that of Bran's. Summer is under 100% control of Bran. He never objects and he does exactly what Bran tells him to do.

But Ghost sometimes do what he wants to do no matter what Jon tells him.

There are two cases I remember him acting weird:

1) Ghost led Jon to the dragonglass stash. He was extremely weird during that trip. There was a strong smell of wights but he did not go after that as he did in finding Jafer's hand. He led Jon through some circles and finally to the stash which looks like a gift from the old gods.

2)

“Sir Richard and Ser Justin have returned,” said Devan. “Will you come, my lord?”

The wrong-way rangers. Massey and Horpe had ridden south, not north. Whatever they had learned did not concern the Night’s Watch, but Jon was curious all the same. “If it would please His Grace.” He followed the young squire back across the yard. Ghost padded after them until Jon said, “No. Stay!” Instead the direwolf ran off.

Wrong-way rangers returned from negotiating with Mors Umber. Jon was summoned to Stannis. Ghost naturally followed Jon but Jon did not let him come. Ghost did not stay as commanded and ran off. I am almost sure that Ghost went to a good place to earsdrop the meeting in King's Tower with Stannis.

I am sure there are more cases where Ghost did not do what he was told to do. And finally there is this realization Jon came through:

Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre’s. He had a weirwood’s eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree. He belongs to the old gods, this one.

I propose that Ghost does not belong to Jon but to Bloodraven. He was sent by the old gods as a mystical mentor to Jon. From time to time, Bloodraven uses him to guide Jon or get the recent news. Jon-Ghost couple is not a typical warg-wolf couple. As a result, Wall preventing warg telepathy theory is wrong because the relation between Jon-Ghost is very special and cannot be generalized.

[Kienn]

I'd say he belongs to Jon but Bloodraven borrows him from time to time.

The wall-blocking-warging theory is very flimsy since it's solely based on Jon's comment that he hasn't felt Ghost since he crossed the wall and there are multiple counter-examples. It's a good example of a theory that shows who will really believe anything anyone tells them on this board.

[CassBlackfyre]

I'd say he belongs to Jon but Bloodraven borrows him from time to time.

The wall-blocking-warging theory is very flimsy since it's solely based on Jon's comment that he hasn't felt Ghost since he crossed the wall and there are multiple counter-examples. It's a good example of a theory that shows who will really believe anything anyone tells them on this board.

What counter-examples are there?

[Nic.]

The first two cases illustrates Ghost doing what is in the good interest for Jon despite Jon's stubbornness. If anything it reinforces that Ghost is loyal to Jon and only Jon. I have no idea what the third point is supposed to illustrate, nor would it be the first time that the direwolves are linked to the old powers.

[DaarioBigalowTyroshiGigolo]

Jon is only half First Men, so it makes sense that Ghost doesn't quite fit with him.

That said, I think his relationship with Ghost is analogous to that of Dany's with Drogon.

There are some parallels between them:

- They are both described as being larger than their siblings

- They both spend a large amount of time away from their respective partner

- While Drogon's scales are black and Ghost's fur is white*, they both have red eyes.

- They have a very close relationship with their respective partner

* I wonder if there is any connection to the HoBaW, an interesting prospect if Jon and Dany marry; they will be Death incarnate. The Last Hero and AAR together... make the PtwP? You heard it here first folks.

Every time I see one of your posts I always click all your spoiler tabs without fail. It's like popping bubble wrap.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Jon is only half First Men, so it makes sense that Ghost doesn't quite fit with him.

The same could be said for all of the Stark children, though.

[RoamingRonin]

This could be attributed to Jon fighting against his warging abilities. Varamyr noted Jon doesn't own up to his full potential as a warg and mentions Mance denied him the chance to make an attempt to claim Ghost as his own. Perhap if Jon gave into his powers, Ghost would be more willing to obey his commands. Bran and Arya have stronger abilities and they both give into their nature.

[ghosts in winterfell]

Well, precisely. They are ''Stark'' children. I'd be the last one to say it matters more who your father was than your mother, but the fact is that in Westerosi society you took your name from the former, and as the saying goes ''There must always be a Stark in Winterfell''. There is power in names, at least so far as the Old Gods are concerned methinks.

Besides,Jon has always defined himself by his bastardy and he does dream and wonder about his mother. His decision not to take Stannis up on his offer further proves he isn't a true Stark, but if he had accepted I think his relationship with Ghost may have become stronger.

Bran, Arya and possibly even Robb were more powerful wargs than Jon, and they all define themselves by being Stark. Robb is described as being more like his father every day by Catelyn, and he had a very close relationship with Grey Wind. Arya refuses to let go of her true identity (''Arya of House Stark''), thus the wolf dreams between continents and warging a cat. Bran is the most powerful warg of all, and although I can't remember a line which proves it, I'm sure there is one.

I don't really think that's what that scene was about. It seemed to me that he was resisting the temptation to seize power solely because he desired it -- he swore his oath the the Night's Watch and he wasn't going to abandon it to chase his childhood dream. Had he known that Robb named him as heir, he may have acted differently.

Also, Arya is currently working very hard to define herself as No One.

eta- And yes, Westerosi society may be patrilineal, but it still doesn't make him less of a Stark.

[Kienn]

His decision not to take Stannis up on his offer further proves he isn't a true Stark

Deciding not to burn down the weirwood trees proves he's not a Stark? ...

Bran, Arya and possibly even Robb were more powerful wargs than Jon

That seems really presumptuous... We don't get much info about warging or how to distinguish strength. The info we do get is from Varamyr and from that I'd say the only way to tell strength is by what animal and how many animals at once someone is able to control. According to Varamyr cats are hard to control since he has trouble, but more likely it's an issue of personal affinity. Arya defined herself as "Cat of the Canals" and later is able to control one. Varamyr also tells us straight out that Jon is a very strong warg, we don't get any info at all about other Stark siblings' "strength".

Bran is obviously the most powerful since he has practiced the most, but I'd put that separately from natural affinity or strength.

What counter-examples are there?

1) Summer senses Ghost across the wall.

2) Varamyr controls an Eagle across the wall.

3) Ghost senses Summer across the wall.

[Mithras]

“That was a horn.”

Others had heard it too. The music and the laughter died at once. Dancers froze in place, listening. Even Ghost pricked up his ears.

During the wedding of Alys, a horn was heard. After the first blast, Ghost pricked his ears to see whether there would be second blast, just like every brother of the NW.

ETA: That sounds similar to Coldhands calling Sam brother in my opinion. BR still acts like a brother of the NW.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

nvm

[Mithras]

After the deal was struck between Jon and Tormund, we have this:

Ghost was gone, though. Jon peeled off one black glove, put two fingers in his mouth, and whistled. “Ghost! To me.”

From above came the sudden sound of wings. Mormont’s raven flapped from a limb of an old oak to perch upon Jon’s saddle. “Corn,” it cried. “Corn, corn, corn.”

“Did you follow me as well?” Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. “Snow,” it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly. Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him.

They look as though they belong together.

Mormont's raven took the place of Ghost to earsdrop the negotiation. Ghost went to Val to do gods know what. Remember Val was very different when she returned.

Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.

Val looks as she belongs to the old gods now, and Jon thinks Ghost and Val look as though they belong together. Previously Jon thought Ghost belonged to the old gods.

[Tywin Smokin a Blunt]

Jon doesn't own Ghost, he IS Ghost and Vice Versa. The fact that Ghost acts up more than say Summer I think is about the fact that Jon has been denying his warging nature, not learning how to control it like Bran has. Look at Shaggy Dog, that wolf is even more unruly than Ghost, because Rickon is four and doesnt know how to control himself let alone a direwolf.

[franko99]

I think Bran/Summer is the exception, not the rule.

Ghost doesn't act more different than the other direwolves, look at Robb and Greywind, he found a secret path before the battle of Oxcross, just like Ghost the obsidian, even though their masters didn't know what they were doing, it is also noted that Greywind didn't like the Freys and Westerlings, and he acted really strange in spite of Robb trying to calm him, just like Ghost and Jon in ADWD,

[Mourneblade]

Each wolf is bound to each Stark, and vise verse. Each pair share strength, and emotion, but they are of two minds. The wolves will never hurt or betray their host Stark, but they do make their own choices unless the Stark has the power to override its will. As is the case with Bran, and opposite, for a time, with Rickon.

As to the Wall's effect, it is there. The wolves' spirt link is greatly hindered by the power of the Wall, and only through strong warging ability, is this hindrance overcome.

I also believe, on certain occasions, that Bloodraven does slip into Ghost's skin.

[Ho Ho Hodor]

theres also the time that when Jojen was asking Bran about his wolf dreams.. while this was making Bran angry Summer was uncontrollable and the Reeds went up the tree and it took Hodor to shoo them away... Bran doesn't even acknowledge yet that it was him that Summer was reacting too.. I don't have my book on me to bring up the quote

I think they are naturally linked.. I mean how could Arya be having wolf dreams across the Sea if there wasn't some sort of spiritual/magic connection.. the source of that magic is the cause for finding the cache of dragonglass and back route at Oxcross... so whether or not you want to try and label that magic is up to yall.. much like irl I prefer to note the crazy stuff that happens and admire it vs trying to indentify what is really causing all of it...

edit: I agree with pretty much everything Mourneblade just wrote ^ ^ ^ ^ ^

[Kienn]

As to the Wall's effect, it is there. The wolves' spirt link is greatly hindered by the power of the Wall, and only through strong warging ability, is this hindrance overcome.

Classic, mangle an incorrect theory to try to fit the flood of contradictory evidence...

3 examples of the Wall doing nothing to block warging, one being Jon himself (plus the countless times Bloodraven has likely warg'd beyond the wall...

1 example of untrained Jon being unable to sense Ghost - while he's distracted by his dreams of Winterfell's crypts, issues due to his desertion of the Watch and Ygritte, and attacks on the Wall from the south AND the north...

Which one is the outlier... hmmm

[Rysler]

I think the wolves are more like "partners" than "pets", so I wouldn't call it "belonging". Therefore Ghost doesn't belong to Jon, but is definitely his partner and loyal to him. The direwolves are rather similar to their respective partners, as Sansa once noted. Lady was gentle and trusting; Shaggydog is fierce and wild; Grey Wind was brave and resourceful; Nymeria is somewhat wild yet caring; Summer is calm and adventurous; Ghost is silent and watchful. Though I can't tell whether they're somewhat molded by their respective companions, is it a coincidence or were the wolves truly sent by the gods.

Speaking of which, does anyone suppose Bloodraven could have been controlling the direwolf that staggered close to Winterfell and gave birth to the pups? Nobody had seen a direwolf south of the Wall and suddenly one comes to deliver pups to aspiring wargs...