Rysler Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 After too much of pondering and googling, I have decided to solve this mystery once and for all. Who are the prince that was promised and Azor Ahai's reincarnation, or are they the same? Melisandre occasionally speaks of the two as one, but neither Aemon nor anyone else refers to the prince as Azor reborn or vice versa. Some parts of their respective prophesies coincide, but not all of them. They could easily be the same person, but there is no telling for sure. Here are the facts: What we know of the prince:-a bleeding star heralds his coming-he's born amidst salt and smoke-his is "the song of ice and fire"-the prince is a warrior-he's of the Targaryen line (Aerys & Rhaella's) What we know of Azor's rebirth:-his rebirth is marked by bleeding stars and gathering darkness-he's born again amidst salt and smoke-he will challenge "the darkness" using Lightbringer, which was originally forged by stabbing Nissa Nissa with it-he will wake the stone dragons Regarding the destiny of the two, I am going to assume "the song of ice and fire" of the prince could mean "the battle for the dawn" led by Azor. Here are the most common theories, arguments for and against, and a synopsis for each. Feel free to correct if I'm mistaken. Good points from posters written in blue: -the post assumes there will be "a person/two persons" who turn out to be AA and/or PTWP-divided opinions on whether or not the PTWP and AA are the same-"Lightbringer" could be a metaphor instead of a sword or some other weapon-some signs could yet to be shown Candidates: Stannis+"rebirth" marked by the Red Comet, salt and smoke (A&P)+drew "Lightbringer" from a fire (A)+warrior (A&P)+proclaimed by Melisandre (A&P?)+distant Targaryen blood +had a vision of battling darkness (A&P)+battles the Others (A&P)-not of Aerys & Rhaella's line-no dragons-dismissed by Aemon-Melisandre has trouble confirming him as Azor Synopsis: Supported mainly by Melisandre's influence. Most certainly not the prince, not very probable to be Azor. Daenerys+born on Dragonstone, the place of smoke and salt (A&P)+"reborn" in the pyre under the Red Comet (A&P)+woke the stone dragons in a fire which burned her husband (A)+Aerys's daughter (P)+conqueror/warrior (A&P)+proclaimed by Aemon as the promised prince/ss (P)-female, though translation error may explain-no Lightbringer? Synopsis: Pretty much everything matches. Very likely to be either or both. Jon+"rebirth" marked by bleeding stars, gathering darkness, salt and smoke (A&P)+birth marked by a bleeding star (P)+warrior (A&P)+battles the Others (A&P)+had a vision of fighting the Others with Lightbringer (A&P)+more or less killed Ygritte (A)+grandson of Aerys? (P)+Melisandre sees him in her fires (A)+/-regular lowborn-turned-prince archetype (P?)+NW vow: "I am the sword in the darkness" -> Lightbringer?-but is he Rhaegar's son?-no dragons or Lightbringer? Synopsis: If R+L=J is true, very likely to be the prince. Azor-theory is also very likely and is only held back by the lack of Lightbringer and/or dragons. Victarion+"reborn" in amidst salt and smoke (A&P)+darkness gathers (A)+hand became stronger and charred in a fire -> Lightbringer? (A)+killed his former wife (A)+warrior (A&P)+has a "great future" according to Moqorro (A&P)+on a quest to court Daenerys, armed with Dragonbinder (A)-no bleeding star-did not wake the dragons-no Targaryen blood whatsoever Synopsis: Not the prince, but he's a surprisingly strong Azor candidate. An unexpected dark horse? Rhaegar+born amidst salt and smoke (A&P)+warrior (A&P)+Aerys's son (P)+considered to be the prince by both Rhaegar and Aemon (P)-no red star nor darkness-no Lightbringer-no dragons-dismissed by both Rhaegar and Aemon-dead Synopsis: Only Summerhall's tragedy and bloodline support these. Also, being dead sinks ambitions. Unlikely that he was either. Aegon+born under a red comet (A&P)+Aerys's grandson (P)+warrior (A&P)+proclaimed by Rhaegar (P)-no salt or smoke-no dragons-no Lightbringer-dead? Synopsis: Even if fAegon is Rhaegar's long-lost son, only bloodline and comet support him. Rather unlikely to be the prince, almost certainly not Azor. Bran+"reborn" amidst salt and smoke? (A&P)+a prince (P)+currently learning magic North of the Wall (A?)+dream about a fire-breathing, winged snake (A)-no Targaryen blood-no star-no dragons nor Lightbringer Synopsis: Not the prince, rather unlikely to be Azor. Shireen+likely born on Dragonstone (A&P)+Stannis' coronation under the star might have been in fact hers (A)+lived on Dragonstone (volcano) and the Wall (P)+distant Targaryen blood +has greyscale = stone dragon? (A)-not of Aerys' line-no Lightbringer nor dragons (as of yet)-not a warrior nor leader-a minor character Synopsis: Cannot be the prince/ss, some chance of being Azor. Davos+"reborn" amidst salt and smoke-nothing else Synopsis: Very unlikely to be either. Sandor+"reborn" once in fire, once in salt-nothing else Synopsis: Very unlikely to be either. Theon+"reborn" amidst salt and smoke? (A&P)+a prince (P)-no star-no Targaryen blood-no dragons nor Lightbringer Synopsis: Very unlikely to be either. Mance+"reborn" in smoke (A&P)+darkness gathers (A)+has fought the Others (A&P)-no Targaryen blood-no bleeding star-no salt-no dragons nor Lightbringer Synopsis: Very unlikely to be either. Symbolism:-Daenerys killing Drogo to wake dragons could allude to Lightbringer, Nissa Nissa and stone dragons all at once-Stannis' rebirth seems to be the Lightbringer's forging under the comet-Jon's birth is marked by the death of Ser Arthur of Starfall-Jon's rebirth is marked by the dead Ser Patrek, the Night's Warch, a smoking wound and Bowen's tears -> bleeding star, gathering darkness, smoke and salt-Victarion's rebirth happens in a fire at sea with the intimidating Moroqqo the Black Flame -> smoke and salt and gathering darkness-Davos' rebirth happens at Blackwater, with burning ships and water he fell in-Sandor's two were the burning of his face and the "death of the Hound" at the Trident-Bran and Theon turn in their paths in a burning Winterfell amidst dying ironmen -> rebirth amidst smoke and salt-The burning of Rattleshirt could be seen as Mance's rebirth, complete with Night's Watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelstad Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Why do you think AA needs Targ blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GallowsKnight Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think the most likely candidate is Jon Snow but I'd love for it to be a curveball like Davos. And even if Jon is the actual AAR, Stannis or Dany might go done in history with the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 You mixed the two prophecies. There is nothing about salt and smoke in TPtwP prophecy - though it's interesting to note that salt and smoke anyway signify ice and fire - but that's the recurring theme of magic in the book. Who the theory points to, I have no effing idea. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Why do you think AA needs Targ blood? Not AAR, but PTWP, given that Ghost of High Heart told Jaeherys that the Prince that was promised would be born out of Rhaella/Aerys line. That was the reason why they got married. You mixed the two prophecies. There is nothing about salt and smoke in TPtwP prophecy - though it's interesting to note that salt and smoke anyway signify ice and fire - but that's the recurring theme of magic in the book. After reading OP, came to say the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Is anybody else rooting for Shitmouth to be AA? :leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victarion Chainbreaker Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Where is Goldenhand the Just? When we last saw him he was on his way to be executed in a smoky cave amidst Brienne's salty tears and in the presence of the only power capable of resurrection (that we know of.) Furthermore he is widely thought to be the one who will kill Cercei, his Nissa Nissa. Not to mention that he owns one of only 2 known red swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Where is Goldenhand the Just? When we last saw him he was on his way to be executed in a smoky cave amidst Brienne's salty tears and in the presence of the only power capable of resurrection (that we know of.) Furthermore he is widely thought to be the one who will kill Cercei, his Nissa Nissa. Not to mention that he owns one of only 2 known red swords. Goldenhand the vile. And Brienne can just as easily be forced to kill him as Nissa Nissa. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I have decided to solve this mystery once and for all. That's cute... As people have said, you haven't completed step 1 properly yet: compiling their characteristics... of course it doesn't help that said characteristics are spread throughout the books and who knows if you can trust the sources (Melisandre). Also, if Azor Ahai is the one who forges Lightbringer, but in the story it's multiple people.. what does that mean... See the story of Ice: Eddard's blood is described as "cold water" Ice takes off Ned's head by the hand of Illyn Payne(step 1, quenching in water) Tobho Mott reforges Ice into two separate sword (step 1.5, the breaking of the first attempt) Brienne kills Jaime, Jaime kills Cersei, or Brienne kills Cersei with Oathkeeper (step 2, quenching in a lion) So who's Azor Ahai? Ilyn Payne, Tobho Mott, Brienne, or Jaime? And we haven't even actually gotten to step 2 yet, much less step 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that is very simple as I've said before Jon Snow is the 3headed dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I think that is very simple as I've said before Jon Snow is the 3headed dragon. Which is not really a prophecy tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Which is not really a prophecy tbh. Read it. All the Messiah figures are the same person in different cultures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neilos Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 More than one character fits the bill pretty well. I really do expect this to remain ambiguous by the end of the story, with Dany, Jon and Stannis all being possibilities, and readers continuing to argue until the end of days over it.(Just because I don't think a single candidate will ever be confirmed doesn't mean I don't think we'll be given more clues. I think all three of the above will follow AA-ish paths, subject to interpretation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Read it. All the Messiah figures are the same person in different cultures. What I mean is, while in the book AA and TPtwP are referred as prophetic figures, "A dragon has three heads" stands as just one cryptic line by a dying Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 What I mean is, while in the book AA and TPtwP are referred as prophetic figures, "A dragon has three heads" stands as just one cryptic line by a dying Targaryen. I see, Rhaegar wasn't dying tho, but we don't know what Rhaegar meant. Do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysler Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 You mixed the two prophecies. There is nothing about salt and smoke in TPtwP prophecy - though it's interesting to note that salt and smoke anyway signify ice and fire - but that's the recurring theme of magic in the book. Who the theory points to, I have no effing idea. :lol: The wiki states that salt and smoke signal the prince as well as Azor. Also Aemon said that "Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke", while talking about the princess that was promised. Or, of course, he could have mixed the prophesies. He was old and getting delusional... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiasyd Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 GRRM confirmed that "the prince that was promised" and "Azor Ahai reborn" are prophecies that refer to the same figure. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 GRRM confirmed that "the prince that was promised" and "Azor Ahai reborn" are prophecies that refer to the same figure. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6320 True. That is why I said that all the Messianic figures are the same person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Is anybody else rooting for Shitmouth to be AA? :leaving: I am now. The wiki states that salt and smoke signal the prince as well as Azor. Also Aemon said that "Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke", while talking about the princess that was promised. Or, of course, he could have mixed the prophesies. He was old and getting delusional... Aemon is a Targ, despite everything that does make him kinda biased. I think its all of the above, the idea of ONE hero fighting the Others strikes me as absurd at this stage. They'll each play a part of Azor Ahai's overall legend. Unless Jaime drowns Cersie, then you've got water, Lion and Nissa Nissa rolled into one. I always wondered, why a Lion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysler Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 GRRM confirmed that "the prince that was promised" and "Azor Ahai reborn" are prophecies that refer to the same figure. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/6320 Ah. That is good to know. Then I suppose as long as we assume the Azor that was promised points to one person only, it's either Daenerys or Aegon... Or one of the secret Targaryens that seem to be popping out of every corner. But I also like the presented idea that AA/PtwP isn't "a single person" but something else. Hmm.. It would appear things are never simple in aSoiaF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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