Too many new cast members for season 5?

[Arkekansler]

They should get the actor playing Jaqen back to play Pate or the Kindly Man (or both). Not very bookcannon but show only people would immediatley recognize them + Jaqen is a fan favorite. All the other characters should be extra's.

Quentyn should be introduced when Dany meets him for the first time or be cut completely.

JonCon, Septa Lemore and Faegon should best be introduced with the GC. No need for the trip itself. Just let Illyrio drop Tyrion off.

Areoh Hotah and Penny should be cut (give more time to Ian Glenn). Randyll Tarly should keep on getting namedrops but without actually introducing them.

Hyle Hunt is out as well. It's just her and Pod. Gendry should be sent to the Vale and replace Mya and some other characters (like Lothor Brune).

Indira Varma is a great actress but I think they'll only use her as an in to Dorne when she takes Oberyn's body back. They might use her in the role of the Sandsnakes in KL, but I hope they refrain from that since Elia is quite a cool character for not getting caught up in the revenge cycle.

I like most of your ideas (except the Dorne part which is evident above). I´ve never heard the idea of sending Gendry to the Aery so that’s interesting.

Here’s an idea. What if they use the guy playing Jaqen but as another faceless man? It´s commonly accepted that “Jaqen” is in Oldtown but what’s to say the faceless men couldn’t use a face more than once on more than one person. Also it would make sense for “The kindly man” to adopt that face since Arya is more likely to feel comfortable around a familiar face (if not person).

[HairGrowsBack]

Hyle Hunt is out as well. It's just her and Pod. Gendry should be sent to the Vale and replace Mya and some other characters (like Lothor Brune).

Gendry still has a part to play in the Riverlands however , and that's saving Brienne (though it could end up being Pod as well, mirroring his Blackwater scene maybe ?). I don't know, I'd rather have him with the BwB and the orphans like in the books.

[Arkekansler]

Gendry still has a part to play in the Riverlands however , and that's saving Brienne (though it could end up being Pod as well, mirroring his Blackwater scene maybe ?). I don't know, I'd rather have him with the BwB and the orphans like in the books.

But they kind of f**ked that up having BwB sell him to Mel (one of the worst changes IMO). The likeliest future is for him to replace Hunt since that will at least put him in the same place as in the books. Still like the idea of him at the Aerie though.

[SM4e]

One thing I´m almost entirely sure of is that we won’t see Quentyn until he arrives in Meereen. I, unlike many, actually did enjoy he´s chapters prior to that but from a show perspective it would be really weird to include them. Also you are here suggesting a scene that’s not even in the books? That won’t happen.

I seriously doubt people will forget Oberyn in a season especially if Quentyn shows up in Meereen early in season 5.

On Arianne I might be bias since she is by far my least favorite part of the entire series. So if you could explain why I’m supposed to care about this vapid, reckless and frankly annoying character I´d be mush obliged. (And don´t say she’s hot)

I also liked Quentyn's chapters quite a lot. Well, the actuall death ceremony of Jon Arryn was also not included in the books, but was the scene to introduce Jaime and Cersei.

I think it would seem strange, if Quentyn just popped out of nowhere in a pre-war situation. I don't think they'll rush though AFFC/ADWD. For the most characters the conent will be enough for 1,5 seasons and I do think that the pit szene will be 5x9 with Quentyn freeing the dragos, Tyrion almost dieing and Daenerys flying off on Drogon; it's just the natural climax since I think Jon will not be assisanited before 5x10 (probably even later).

Daenerys has other toubles to manage at the beginning of Season 5; dragons, banished Jorah, they'll need time to establish Barristan as a very trustworthy character, and so on.

Well, as I said, Arianne mirrors almost entire Dorne (quick-deciding, revengeful and great of pride) and I find her development interesting as she realizes that there're other ways to get revenge, ways that are more effective. I actually quite enjoyed her Princess in the Tower chapter where she reflects her mistakes and don't tell me you didn't enjoy Doran's speech of paraphrased) grass and snake and fire and blood.

[Mother of Mountains]

Is there any reason the "crown Myrcella" subplot itself can't be cut? It goes nowhere. Indeed, if you wanted, you could easily introduce Arianne when she arrives to meet with Aegon in TWOW.

Pretty sure this is included, the recent trailer even includes Oberyn stating the Dornish view that now Joffrey is dead, Myrcella should be Queen.

[Veltigar]

But they kind of f**ked that up having BwB sell him to Mel (one of the worst changes IMO). The likeliest future is for him to replace Hunt since that will at least put him in the same place as in the books. Still like the idea of him at the Aerie though.

I agree. The BwB change was ridiculous and a major a bridgeburner in that aspect.

I believe that Hunt won't be replaced because Gendry's inclusion would hamper the development of the TriPod and Brienne dynamic. And since I believe that Gendry will eventually wind up in the Vale in the books as an escort for Brienne, it's the most logical thing to do to send him to the Eyrie straight away.

That would give Gendry an original storyline, where he doesn't have to compete with TriPod for lines (because they would say the same things to Brienne I figure). It would help them to save money, since Gendry could replace quite a few characters (Mya, Lothor, other normal servants most notabley).

They could also built up Gendry's chivalry at the Eyrie and use him later on as a nice contrast to Harry the Heir (who'll probably be a total douche). They could even suggest a bit of budding romance between the two of them. Gendry would see Alayne, who can't M'lady zone him like Arya, as a nice change. And Sansa would like his protective presence and his bastard streetsmart (since they are both supposed to be bastards they could bond over that).

They could even throw a huge plot bomb on us. IIRC in the book there is a line in a Jaime chapter where he thinks of Sansa and hopes she hid herself, forgot who she was and married a blacksmith. If they make Jaime say that to Brienne when he gives her Oathkeeper and then cut to a scene between Sansa and Gendry (preferably there first meaningful encounter), well then Twitter would explode.

A Gendry-Sansa pairing could happen in the books as well so they might be foreshadowing something.

[Constantinople]

Pretty sure this is included, the recent trailer even includes Oberyn stating the Dornish view that now Joffrey is dead, Myrcella should be Queen.

It does? Where?

[Arkekansler]

I also liked Quentyn's chapters quite a lot. Well, the actuall death ceremony of Jon Arryn was also not included in the books, but was the scene to introduce Jaime and Cersei.

I think it would seem strange, if Quentyn just popped out of nowhere in a pre-war situation. I don't think they'll rush though AFFC/ADWD. For the most characters the conent will be enough for 1,5 seasons and I do think that the pit szene will be 5x9 with Quentyn freeing the dragos, Tyrion almost dieing and Daenerys flying off on Drogon; it's just the natural climax since I think Jon will not be assisanited before 5x10 (probably even later).

Daenerys has other toubles to manage at the beginning of Season 5; dragons, banished Jorah, they'll need time to establish Barristan as a very trustworthy character, and so on.

Well, as I said, Arianne mirrors almost entire Dorne (quick-deciding, revengeful and great of pride) and I find her development interesting as she realizes that there're other ways to get revenge, ways that are more effective. I actually quite enjoyed her Princess in the Tower chapter where she reflects her mistakes and don't tell me you didn't enjoy Doran's speech of paraphrased) grass and snake and fire and blood.

Doran´s speech was good I’ll give you that. But not in my opinion good enough to deserve a whole separate plotline leading up to it. Especially since the point of the speech could (and will) be made as clearly when Quentyn arrives in Meereen.

Most (all) of the Danny stuff you mention will be covered in season 4.

Do you think Quentin freeing the dragons and Danny flying Drogon will be in the same episode? Really?

About your Quentyn/Doran scene it wouldn’t make sense mostly because it takes a while to cross to Meereen. In season 1 they could jump thru time because it made sense for all the characters, now it won’t. Also it would mean either teleporting Quentyn to Meereen or giving him the journey he has in the books and then some. I understand that you seem to want that to happen but it just won´t. Also he will have to interact with Danny for a good while. So if the scene with him releasing the dragons is in 5x9 and his introduction in 5x1 either he will have to travel all the way in like 4 episodes or he will only spend like 3 episodes in Meereen before releasing the dragons (or you divide 9 episodes into an appropriate timeline). Unless he borrows LFs jetpack and turn it up to 10 it´s not possible.

[Arkekansler]

I agree. The BwB change was ridiculous and a major a bridgeburner in that aspect.

I believe that Hunt won't be replaced because Gendry's inclusion would hamper the development of the TriPod and Brienne dynamic. And since I believe that Gendry will eventually wind up in the Vale in the books as an escort for Brienne, it's the most logical thing to do to send him to the Eyrie straight away.

That would give Gendry an original storyline, where he doesn't have to compete with TriPod for lines (because they would say the same things to Brienne I figure). It would help them to save money, since Gendry could replace quite a few characters (Mya, Lothor, other normal servants most notabley).

They could also built up Gendry's chivalry at the Eyrie and use him later on as a nice contrast to Harry the Heir (who'll probably be a total douche). They could even suggest a bit of budding romance between the two of them. Gendry would see Alayne, who can't M'lady zone him like Arya, as a nice change. And Sansa would like his protective presence and his bastard streetsmart (since they are both supposed to be bastards they could bond over that).

They could even throw a huge plot bomb on us. IIRC in the book there is a line in a Jaime chapter where he thinks of Sansa and hopes she hid herself, forgot who she was and married a blacksmith. If they make Jaime say that to Brienne when he gives her Oathkeeper and then cut to a scene between Sansa and Gendry (preferably there first meaningful encounter), well then Twitter would explode.

A Gendry-Sansa pairing could happen in the books as well so they might be foreshadowing something.

As I said I like the idea but where do you get the impression Brienne will end up at the Aerie?

[Mother of Mountains]

It does? Where?

I may have dreamt it apparently, sorry.

[SM4e]

Doran´s speech was good I’ll give you that. But not in my opinion good enough to deserve a whole separate plotline leading up to it. Especially since the point of the speech could (and will) be made as clearly when Quentyn arrives in Meereen.

Most (all) of the Danny stuff you mention will be covered in season 4.

Do you think Quentin freeing the dragons and Danny flying Drogon will be in the same episode? Really?

About your Quentyn/Doran scene it wouldn’t make sense mostly because it takes a while to cross to Meereen. In season 1 they could jump thru time because it made sense for all the characters, now it won’t. Also it would mean either teleporting Quentyn to Meereen or giving him the journey he has in the books and then some. I understand that you seem to want that to happen but it just won´t. Also he will have to interact with Danny for a good while. So if the scene with him releasing the dragons is in 5x9 and his introduction in 5x1 either he will have to travel all the way in like 4 episodes or he will only spend like 3 episodes in Meereen before releasing the dragons (or you divide 9 episodes into an appropriate timeline). Unless he borrows LFs jetpack and turn it up to 10 it´s not possible.

Oberyn will make several allusions to his beloved sister and brother, so the viewers will be excited to see the brother of this super-charismatic, likeable (fan-favorite fore sure) character. Tywin will also mention Doran in 4x01 I assume since they all expect him to arrive.

Well we have as main points: Decision to go to Meereen, Reintroduction + Romance with Daario, Daario vs. Oznak, Siege of Meereen (as seen in trailer), Deepening of Missandei's character (as stated by Nathalie Emmanuel), Hizdar asking to reopen the fighting pits,Dragons growing and getting uncontrolable -> Hazzea + Daenerys' inner conflict, Jorah's betrayal.

This wouldn't be too deep into ADWD and since we have neither got the Shavepate nor Reznak mo Reznak nor anybody else from Meereen's nobles (but Hizdar) cast, I think I'm right. This would fill season 4 comfortably.

5x01 - Doran & Quentyn

5x03/04 - Quentyn and companion travelling

5x06 - Quentyn arriving in Meereen

5x06/07/08/09 - Quentyn getting closer to Daenerys

last 20-25 minutes of 5x09 - On the one hand dramatic fighting scenes in the pit with Tyrion in the end and then Drogon+Daenerys, on the other hand Quentyn freeing Rhaegal and Viserion and getting burned in another dramatic scene [i'm pretty sure they will cast a pretty, but shy character as Quentyn, so it'll be actually a dramatic climax] and in the ending sequence we have Meereen burning and Drogon flying off.

So yeah, Quentyn will actually need LF's jetpack, but since the show is for casual viewers mainly, the audience will not care that much at all (and for me as a reader it's also understandable).

- had to rewrite the text since I accidently closed my browser, I might have forgotten something :| -

[Veltigar]

As I said I like the idea but where do you get the impression Brienne will end up at the Aerie?

For starters I don't think she or Jaime (Valonqar) will die in LS trial. So, we need a place for her to go. We know from the books that Brienne was planning to work her way to the Eyrie eventually, but that everyone told her that she would never make it alone because of the Clans being out for blood.

We know that the BwB is internally divided. There are those who broke off with Ned Dayne and disappeared into the Neck. There are LS loyalists like Lem Lemoncloak who just want revenge and are becoming as bad as what they fought against. And then there is a third party lead by Thoros and Gendry. They are still with LS, but they dislike what it has become.

I believe that LS will try and kill Pod and Brienne in spite of her promise. I believe Thoros and Gendry will take offense of that and that the BwB will fall apart in two waring parties. When the dus setlles Lem and LS will be dead and Gendry's faction victorious.

However, there is still a dilemma. Jaime, Brienne, etc. now their hide-out and they have been massivly weakened by the infighting. Jaime on the other hand cannot afford to let them just walk away. The solution is a simple one. Let the remaining BwB members swear fealthy to Brienne, who they know is a true knight and send them on their way to the Vale. The last place in the South were Sansa could realisticly be.

And now of course it becomes highly speculative:

Once arrived in the Vale Brienne would immediatly seek out LF. He'd tell her she isn't there. By that time I expect HtH to be completely smitten by Sansa, but Sansa, having seen his true nature doesn't want to marry him anymore. LF would put pressure on her by treatening SR.

At that point Sansa would start to search for a way out. She would speak to a couple of people and when Brienne arrives I think she'll make the leap of Faith and acost her. Together they'll try to escape. But someone in the party (I'm guessing the Mouse, Myranda or Hunt if he's still alive) sells them out. To escape LF and his cronies, they'll have but one choice and that's to travel up to the Eyrie.

There LF and HtH would besiege them (tell everyone that Brienne was a Lannister spy out to kidnap SR) and they would hold out for some days. Eventually, HtH and his soldiers would get inside. Brienne, Gendry, Sansa and everyone who's still alive would make a last stance in the courtyard. When all seems lost a black shadow appears from above. Dany has landed in the Vale and took Drogon to the Eyrie in the hope of repeating Visenya's actions during Aegon's conquest. She swoops in and saves Sansa and SR by burning the enemy soldiers.

TWoW will see Pov's killed and a huge cut down of locations. The Vale would be one of the suction points. We already have Sansa there, Brienne would follow and there help Sansa which whatever she needs to escape from LF clutches and the Dany-cluster will probably land there.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

I like the Gendry+Sansa idea. It only works however if Gendry sees her only as Alayne and it of course is dependent on "the endgame" of these plotlines which we can't really know.

This is also true for the most points made in here, it gets exceedingly difficult to foretell what is important and what's not. I'd also wait for Season 4 to be over as we then know more about where the show wants to take most points!

My take on the Dornish is that there's a plot that presents itself quite clearly: 1) Arianne demands action of Doran due to Oberyn's death 2) Arianne seduces King'sguard and/or abducates Myrcella and gets put in the tower by Doran (1-2 eps) 3) Ellaria visits Arianne and explains why she doesn't want revenge 4) Doran frees Arianne, fire+blood speech which then directly cuts to Quentyn presenting himself to Dany 5) Dany shows Quentyn the dragons, then marries and pit scene 6a) Last episode Quentyn frees the other two dragons 6b) Meanwhile in Dorne, the Feast where Doran needs Arianne to distract the Kingsguard sent.

The weak point is that this needs quite a lot of scenes and maybe they want to use their Volantis set-up (if they create it), But I'm pretty confident they'll introduce Quentyn only in Meereen, his experiences on the road are not vital (at least not to his story). They're not particularly exciting and can be given to other characters if wanted. But I do think the themes happening in Dorne ("feminism" and "femme fatale", "rightful revenge vs. forgiving") are too goo of scen material to pass up on). The second part of the season in Dorne is a bit light but there's so much more to put into the season after all.

Roddy's post above does seem intriguing, but it's a little too much speculative for me. (also gets a bit far from the theme of this thread :))

[Arkekansler]

Oberyn will make several allusions to his beloved sister and brother, so the viewers will be excited to see the brother of this super-charismatic, likeable (fan-favorite fore sure) character. Tywin will also mention Doran in 4x01 I assume since they all expect him to arrive.

Well we have as main points: Decision to go to Meereen, Reintroduction + Romance with Daario, Daario vs. Oznak, Siege of Meereen (as seen in trailer), Deepening of Missandei's character (as stated by Nathalie Emmanuel), Hizdar asking to reopen the fighting pits,Dragons growing and getting uncontrolable -> Hazzea + Daenerys' inner conflict, Jorah's betrayal.

This wouldn't be too deep into ADWD and since we have neither got the Shavepate nor Reznak mo Reznak nor anybody else from Meereen's nobles (but Hizdar) cast, I think I'm right. This would fill season 4 comfortably.

5x01 - Doran & Quentyn

5x03/04 - Quentyn and companion travelling

5x06 - Quentyn arriving in Meereen

5x06/07/08/09 - Quentyn getting closer to Daenerys

last 20-25 minutes of 5x09 - On the one hand dramatic fighting scenes in the pit with Tyrion in the end and then Drogon+Daenerys, on the other hand Quentyn freeing Rhaegal and Viserion and getting burned in another dramatic scene [i'm pretty sure they will cast a pretty, but shy character as Quentyn, so it'll be actually a dramatic climax] and in the ending sequence we have Meereen burning and Drogon flying off.

So yeah, Quentyn will actually need LF's jetpack, but since the show is for casual viewers mainly, the audience will not care that much at all (and for me as a reader it's also understandable).

- had to rewrite the text since I accidently closed my browser, I might have forgotten something :| -

I´m coming around on your 5x9 episode! I actually forgot that Drogon is free the entire time (Oops). But other than that I still think it more likely to have Quentyns introduction directly in Meereen in episode 4 or 5. The episodes of Quentyn traveling will I think be either too big for a minor character or will have to be stripped down for time and therefore feel hollow. And when it comes down to it if D&D has to choose between including or cutting a storyline without it really making any difference that storyline will be cut. (I´m worried people will get annoyed at once again being introduced to a Martell only to have him killed off and because of this I would try to make Quentyn as mush of a background character as possible while keeping him a full character.)

In Dannys storyline I expect all political opponents will be cut save Hizdar, Shavepate and The green grace. Of these the Shavepate will mostly be in the background and The green grace will only have a couple of scenes. So Dannys season 5 will mostly be divided between the courtroom, Daario, Hizdar and Quentyn (maybe some Missandie and Barristan).

PS. Veltigar: Although I agree with a lot of what you’re saying it’s still highly speculative. For all we know Brienne might be dead when as you putt it “the dust settles” and the surviving BwB will accompany Jaime to Casterlyrock.

[SM4e]

But other than that I still think it more likely to have Quentyns introduction directly in Meereen in episode 4 or 5. The episodes of Quentyn traveling will I think be either too big for a minor character or will have to be stripped down for time and therefore feel hollow. And when it comes down to it if D&D has to choose between including or cutting a storyline without it really making any difference that storyline will be cut. (I´m worried people will get annoyed at once again being introduced to a Martell only to have him killed off and because of this I would try to make Quentyn as mush of a background character as possible while keeping him a full character.)

Yeah ok you got a point there. It also depends on Drinkwater's/Yronwood's further importance [i haven't read the sample chapters of Barristan in TWOW] whether they include some of the journey, so both characters are known to the audience. After all, we can just guess and from how we know D&D Quentyn will probably appear when he arrives in Meereen, ...but one may dream. :D

Any other thoughts on the guesses I posted on page 2?

[Colonel Green]

Not if you don't adapt important sections of the book you can't.

A lot of people would dispute how important either of those sections are. Beyond which, the adaptation process always involves cutting things.

[boojam]

The assumption around these parts seems to be that Season 5 of GoT will combine material from AFFC and ADWD, and I think that's reasonable: I certainly can't imagine that cutting out Dany, Jon and Tyrion from season 5 would go down at all well with show-watchers.

Furthermore (and I say this as a big fan of FFC and DwD), it's also assumed that the relatively "talky" nature of these two books, which are short on action, will mean they're unlikely to be able to be stretched to more than about 1.5 seasons: again, this is something I'd agree with. I see season 4 having perhaps 10% of the FFC/DwD material, season 5 covering the bulk of it, with season 6 finishing up the remaining 15-20% or so before moving into WoW territory.

My guess is , and this is why Dave, Dan and Bryan met with GRRM in Santa Fe last year that some , tho very little, material from AFOC and ADWD will be brought forward into season 4. Except for the narrative drama at Meereen, which is going to either be condensed a lot , second half of the season, or a lot of invention going on.

I have this feeling the essence of AFOC and ADWD will be boiled down and structured differently from the books, not that any major changes will be made just that the narrative dramatic structure will be streamlined and made more compelling. Plus I think D and D and Bryan now know a better outline of WoW and that's going to start to show up towards the end of season 5.

Otherwise we are going to be wandering in a muddle of repetitive drama for Dany as happened in season 2.

[boojam]

Neither of those people were regulars, so no, they wouldn't have contracts like that. That's kind of the main distinction between regulars and non-regulars (the latter may be committed for set numbers of episodes, but not for huge multi-year contracts).

It's kind of a puzzle. Kate Dickie was back to shoot scenes in 2012 (I think) , I don't know if those were for season 4 or were just held of season 3. I thought she was back for more shooting this season?

It seems some actors are indeed signed, I guess?, to one season contracts and then are hired back easily, Ian McElhinney... for instance, or are their such things a 'flexible contracts'?

I mean Conan Stevens wanted back, but apparently a long story there... Eugene Simon has been waiting for a casting call for two years... I guess he won't be back this year...

For season 4 Natalia Tena , way way back, said she was waiting for a call, so I guess we will be surprised if she makes a cameo appearance. She seems like she is ready to arrange her schedule in order to come back at any time.

Impression is that , with the exception of Clive Mantel ... many actors want to be called back or on the show for show biz exposure reasons... or at least their agents do.

(What Ed Skrein's story is I would still like to know.)

[Arkekansler]

Yeah ok you got a point there. It also depends on Drinkwater's/Yronwood's further importance [i haven't read the sample chapters of Barristan in TWOW] whether they include some of the journey, so both characters are known to the audience. After all, we can just guess and from how we know D&D Quentyn will probably appear when he arrives in Meereen, ...but one may dream. :D

Any other thoughts on the guesses I posted on page 2?

Dorne

I´ve already stated how I feel about Dorne. Basically I could imagine it all cut or moved until later.

The Iron Island

Victarion and Euron I think is a given and while where there I don’t see why we wouldn’t be getting Aeron as well. If nothing else so that Victarion has someone to talk to.

Ashas storyline is completely unpredictable (except that we will get the sex scene as shown in the trailer) but I don’t see why she wouldn’t be surrounded by the same people as in the books.

Whiteharbor/Winterfell

Wyman is in and so is Jayne Poole. As for the others they´re just a jumble of Freys and Northerners that might or might not be named.

Essos (Tyrions storyline)

I see Penny and the whole slave thing being cut so to leave enough space for Illyrio, G&YG and proper Tyrion – Jorah interaction.

Braavos

No idea.

Kings Landing

Agree with you except I think you forgot Taena and I don´t think Bronn will be there for long, but on that to we seem to agree.

Riverlands

Basically agree.

The Vale

Agree and I hope Lyn Corbray will become important. He´s a really cool character, although he´s a peado. Maybe he could be merged with Harry the Heir?

The Wall

I see the Karstark subplot being cut but as you say it´s hard to tell. Jon has enough material to last double the amount of time as many of the others.

Oh and now Locke! (Which I’ve written in another thread I think will be a replacement for Rattleshirt)

[protar]

A lot of people would dispute how important either of those sections are. Beyond which, the adaptation process always involves cutting things.

Are they as important as say, Tyrion going to Dany? No. But without a doubt, cutting either the Ironborn or the Dornish would be changes far larger than anything we've seen so far and would require a completely different story from then on out.