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She-wolves of Winterfell: Analyzing Northern women


Mladen

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Just a thought---If the girls are changed by the presence of their new animal symbols, doesn't that change the dynamics of the wolf pack? Arya and Sansa are not the same girls they were at the start and they do not they follow their wolves' paths exactly. Lady is dead while Sansa is alive and Arya has been living in a order of master assasins for two books while Nymeria continues to roam the wilderness. How can the metaphorical wolf pack stay the same when the 'wolves' have changed so drastically? The natural leader among the Stark siblings, Robb, died and left the other children without any safety. Though I suppose Nymeria's natural leadership skills can demonstrate Arya's ability to lead and attract others.

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Just a thought---If the girls are changed by the presence of their new animal symbols, doesn't that change the dynamics of the wolf pack? Arya and Sansa are not the same girls they were at the start and they do not they follow their wolves' paths exactly. Lady is dead while Sansa is alive and Arya has been living in a order of master assasins for two books while Nymeria continues to roam the wilderness. How can the metaphorical wolf pack stay the same when the 'wolves' have changed so drastically? The natural leader among the Stark siblings, Robb, died and left the other children without any safety. Though I suppose Nymeria's natural leadership skills can demonstrate Arya's ability to lead and attract others.

It is natural for the person to change, and in literature, it is rather normal to infuse more than one symbol or metaphor. The author can still use many symbols but not on the damage of already existent one. So, Sansa's bird symbolism, or Arya's cat one, doesn't minimize the power of the wolf symbolism, for it is still strong in their respective arcs. It is basically the anchor of the animal symbolism in their stories. Arya got wolf dreams, and Sansa is very much attached to her home and her pack. So, basically, new symbols are widening the perspective, but not damaging the original metaphor.

As for Arya's leadership skills, one has to note that Nymeria is leading the pack of ordinary wolves, not direwolves. That certainly parallels when Arya took the charge when she was "leading the pack" with Gendry and HotPie, and then there is Nymeria's name, taken from Rhoynar Queen who led her people... Not impossible, but I doubt we'll see Arya being ruler of some sort.

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Thank you so much. I am glad that my work is tantalizing for you guys. This board has one of the toughest audiences ever :)

The connection I usually make with Kipling's work is actually about Rickon, and the feral child aspect in his story...

And more than that... Many times, Sansa's actions have been wrongly interpreted as abandoning her family, but there were lot about wolf theme in it. From the falling in love, to not bending the knee to Tyrion, to her pulling in herself in time of sorrow and danger and lastly adopting the lonely child. So, even though, she was presented at the beginning of the story, as this typical girl, there is a lot of going on under the surface.

I do see where Rickon can parallel a ferel child, in that he is raised in a foreign environment, and had a wild reputation. But I was thinking more of Raksha, aka The Demon, aka Mother Wolf in relation to the girls, and as a very positive she-wolf reference.

I also agree that Sansa is wrongly interpreted in any type of abandonment of family.

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I do see where Rickon can parallel a ferel child, in that he is raised in a foreign environment, and had a wild reputation. But I was thinking more of Raksha, aka The Demon, aka Mother Wolf in relation to the girls, and as a very positive she-wolf reference.

I also agree that Sansa is wrongly interpreted in any type of abandonment of family.

It's been a while since the last time I read Kipling, but in ASOIAF there is very brilliant motif of she-wolf mother in Sansa's storyline, especially in regard of "adopting" SR.

This is thoughtful and well-written essay. However, I may be off-base here but the imagery & symbolism of wolves in the American Southwest is a bit different than those presented here. I honestly didn't realize the she-wolf had such negative connotations. I'm not well-read on this and It's been many years since I've studied Native American histories of animal symbolism so I will have to brush up a little before I can state clearly what the wolf represents in these cultures. I think you may find it worth exploring since GRRM lives in Santa Fe, NM & one cannot travel through any part of the entire region without encountering the wolf image. It's strong, positive and very pervasive.

Well, the essay doesn't go in detail where the wolfs had positive and where the negative symbolism. Certainly, that in Native American culture, wolf would have much different interpretation than, perhaps in European Christian, and I have even read some of the pieces about it. But, even in ASOIAF, we see the game of positive and negative symbolism... Especially, when Robb is mockingly called dog, or Lannisters making comparisons between lions and wolfs...

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Mladen, what a wonderful essay. :bowdown: I remember reading some of the thoughts from this essay a few months ago in your essay about the wolf symbolism in ASOAIF in general - it was one of the first posts I remembered reading on this forum, and one of those that made me want to join the forum in the first place. I particularly liked the points you made about Sansa, Arya and Lyanna as "she-wolves", and about she-wolves refusing to be "mounted" by males they don't want and haven't chosen themselves. People often tend to overlook Sansa's wolf nature because it's less obvious. These three girls are among my favorite female characters in the series. I'm also looking forward to your other essays on Northern women.

I have to disagree with your intro, though, or maybe just with your wording:

Feminism in she-wolf symbolism of ASOIAF




It is often difficult for authors to write characters of opposite sex. It is not rare that it leads to discussion whether male authors are capable of writing female characters and vice versa. Due to history, tradition and the patriarchy of our world, male authors and their female characters are often criticized for lacking depth, falling into standardized roles of mothers, daughters and wives, and usually being just plot tool for main, usually male, hero. So, it is no wonder when the critics spoke about GRRM’s female characters that the words like “misogyny” appeared. But, strangely enough, GRRM definitely divided female readership into two opposite groups. The one criticized Martin’s world for being misogynist, and the other praised the depth of female characters, noticing some subtle feminist slogans. But, as it is often the case in Martin’s books, the truth lies somewhere between.

I don't think that the truth is "somewhere between", since those two are not opposites or contradictory. The world of ASOAIF is deeply misogynist; that's a very deliberate choice by the author. And this is how he sends his feminist messages, which IMO really not subtle most of the time - they're pretty obvious. He makes the point over and over what a crapsack world this patriarchal medieval society is, how awful it is to women, and to the poor and the lower classes, and to the disabled and disfigured people, and to the men who don't fit the traditional masculine ideal (e.g. Samwell) and to anyone who is seen as "different". Not only is there a versatile gallery of different interesting, well-developed and layered female characters, including several major characters of the same importance as the male characters, but Martin also portrays, through their arcs, all the difficulties, hardships, abuses and injustices that women of such a society were faced with. There is no "in between" - the universe is very misogynistic, and the books are very feminist.

It's been a while since the last time I read Kipling, but in ASOIAF there is very brilliant motif of she-wolf mother in Sansa's storyline, especially in regard of "adopting" SR.

Well, the essay doesn't go in detail where the wolfs had positive and where the negative symbolism. Certainly, that in Native American culture, wolf would have much different interpretation than, perhaps in European Christian, and I have even read some of the pieces about it. But, even in ASOIAF, we see the game of positive and negative symbolism... Especially, when Robb is mockingly called dog, or Lannisters making comparisons between lions and wolfs...

Something I generally never understand when it comes to human behavior in general, not just in these books, is the use of "dog" comparisons in offensive and contemptuous meanings. It's Man's Best Friend, right? The closest domestic animals we have, our pets and protectors, known for their devotion? So what's up with calling people "dogs" as an insult? It's especially bizarre when you contrast it with the use of wild animals, which are not friendly to humans and which most humans would run away from if they saw them outside of the zoo, as positive metaphors. There's something really fucked up about humans if they have so much respect only for wild predators, but despise the domestic animals and pets they live with and use, even those they supposedly love.

I loved that speech by Sandor where he says he likes dogs better than knights and tells the story of the dogs that died saving Tytos Lannister (ironically, from a lioness); really, why should he consider that an insult? The Lannisters call themselves lions, other families and individuals are known as wolves, dragons, falcons, vipers and what not. It makes sense for the Starks and (some of) the Targaryens, who are really bonded with their sigil animals, but for many others, it's just empty boasting, as Illyrio correctly pointed out. The Lannisters are particularly ridiculous with their "lion" metaphors - if they saw a real lion, they'd be looking to run away as fast as possible, or would need a pack of dogs to save them like Tytos did.

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you mean this review?

This item has wolves on it which makes it intrinsically sweet and worth 5 stars by itself, but once I tried it on, that's when the magic happened. After checking to ensure that the shirt would properly cover my girth, I walked from my trailer to Wal-mart with the shirt on and was immediately approached by women. The women knew from the wolves on my shirt that I, like a wolf, am a mysterious loner who knows how to 'howl at the moon' from time to time (if you catch my drift!). The women that approached me wanted to know if I would be their boyfriend and/or give them money for something they called mehth. I told them no, because they didn't have enough teeth, and frankly a man with a wolf-shirt shouldn't settle for the first thing that comes to him.

I arrived at Wal-mart, mounted my courtesy-scooter (walking is such a drag!) sitting side saddle so that my wolves would show. While I was browsing tube socks, I could hear aroused asthmatic breathing behind me. I turned around to see a slightly sweaty dream in sweatpants and flip-flops standing there. She told me she liked the wolves on my shirt, I told her I wanted to howl at her moon. She offered me a swig from her mountain dew, and I drove my scooter, with her shuffling along side out the door and into the rest of our lives. Thank you wolf shirt.

Pros: Fits my girthy frame, has wolves on it, attracts women

Cons: Only 3 wolves (could probably use a few more on the 'guns'), cannot see wolves when sitting with arms crossed, wolves would have been better if they glowed in the dark.

i don't even....
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Mladen, what a wonderful essay. :bowdown: I remember reading some of the thoughts from this essay a few months ago in your essay about the wolf symbolism in ASOAIF in general - it was one of the first posts I remembered reading on this forum, and one of those that made me want to join the forum in the first place.

Wow, thank you for the kind words, Annara. And if I have influenced you to join the forum, as you say, then I must have done something good... For in a very short time, you have become very prolific and respected poster

I don't think that the truth is "somewhere between", since those two are not opposites or contradictory. The world of ASOAIF is deeply misogynist; that's a very deliberate choice by the author. And this is how he sends his feminist messages, which IMO really not subtle most of the time - they're pretty obvious. He makes the point over and over what a crapsack world this patriarchal medieval society is, how awful it is to women, and to the poor and the lower classes, and to the disabled and disfigured people, and to the men who don't fit the traditional masculine ideal (e.g. Samwell) and to anyone who is seen as "different". Not only is there a versatile gallery of different interesting, well-developed and layered female characters, including several major characters of the same importance as the male characters, but Martin also portrays, through their arcs, all the difficulties, hardships, abuses and injustices that women of such a society were faced with. There is no "in between" - the universe is very misogynistic, and the books are very feminist.

I think perhaps the wording is bigger issue, then the opposite thoughts. ASOIAF is primarily series of fantasy novel, and mostly, it is seen that way. Martin gets praises for the depth of his characters and general characterization. But, the medieval setting, plus the genre in which you don't expect to see some great notion of feminism together provided some rather shallow analysis of Martin's work. I do agree with you, the world is misogynistic, and the books are feminist, but the books have one rather humane message about powerless in characters' lives and gender neutrality of it. Both genders are, in many ways, forced on choices they would like to evade, but alas, sometimes there is always a role to play, duty to fulfill... So, my point was that Martin was both being praised for the underlining feminism in the books and obvious misogyny of the world. I imagine that inability to separate those two is death of any good analysis.

Something I generally never understand when it comes to human behavior in general, not just in these books, is the use of "dog" comparisons in offensive and contemptuous meanings. It's Man's Best Friend, right? The closest domestic animals we have, our pets and protectors, known for their devotion? So what's up with calling people "dogs" as an insult? It's especially bizarre when you contrast it with the use of wild animals, which are not friendly to humans and which most humans would run away from if they saw them outside of the zoo, as positive metaphors. There's something really fucked up about humans if they have so much respect only for wild predators, but despise the domestic animals and pets they live with and use, even those they supposedly love.

Animal symbolism is rather interesting, but sometimes extremely confusing area... It all depends on cultural setting, the history, education etc. For instance, wolf has such diverse symbolism, from predatory nature and viciousness to the positive imagery of the spiritual, intelligent and social animal. Look for instance in America. The Native Americans have rather deep and powerful positive imagery, while on the other hand you have Christian representations of "big, bad wolf" So, when it comes to dogs, there is also contradictions in it. We appreciate the dog as obedient, loyal friend, but at the same time we fear of what we don't understand, his wild nature, and animal side. Also, it should be noted that dog is the pet, and in many ways seen as lower than its owner (with the leash around the neck) So, perhaps, when someone says "dog", he actually means on that status below human, someone supposedly not as refined, intelligent and sensible as humans "are".

Now, as for the wild animals and our admiration, I suppose it is more enhanced in civilized areas (I still remember the first time I have seen the cow, I was in awe :)). The wild animals represent the outside world, world of foreign beauties and mysteries. We appreciate the lion's mane as the royal symbol, peacock's feathers as something vain and admirable, etc...

I loved that speech by Sandor where he says he likes dogs better than knights and tells the story of the dogs that died saving Tytos Lannister (ironically, from a lioness); really, why should he consider that an insult? The Lannisters call themselves lions, other families and individuals are known as wolves, dragons, falcons, vipers and what not. It makes sense for the Starks and (some of) the Targaryens, who are really bonded with their sigil animals, but for many others, it's just empty boasting, as Illyrio correctly pointed out. The Lannisters are particularly ridiculous with their "lion" metaphors - if they saw a real lion, they'd be looking to run away as fast as possible, or would need a pack of dogs to save them like Tytos did.

I agree to some extent... (btw, if you haven't, you should read Mahaut's essay on PTP about Sandor and dog symbolism). Martin has two dimension in his use of animals in his storytelling - one is metaphors and the other is real animals. You see two aspects colliding with Starks and Targaryens, but for the rest, mostly it is about metaphors and it should be seen through the prism of what we know culturally about those animals. So, it is rather important to separate those two aspects, especially when it comes to those that makes those lines blurrier like Starks and Targaryens.

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Not to derail, but you last paragraph here reminds me of the use of Horses symbolically in the journey of our characters. Particularly Dany, Barbs Dustin, and Bran. Not really a discussion for this thread.

BOT: interestingly wolves also seems to represent a lack of trust, or perhaps it is that acute awareness.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Guys, I am so sorry about this delay but as some of you may know I haven't been on forums for a while due to RL issues... Our next topic is Lyanna Stark and the essay about her will be completed in the days to come (this weekend, I swear on my love for Sansa :)). In the meantime, you are all free to throw some ideas about Lyanna and Ned's daughters. Again, apologies for the delay but I have been truly too busy for writing essays...


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Just a question. Why is the thread called she-wolves of Winterfell when it is about all Northwomen from various Houses and not just Starks?

This has already been answered. The original idea was to analyze the Stark ladies - Lyanna, Sansa and Arya, but it grew in size and I expanded it on all Northern women, with emphasis on Mormont ladies and Manderly girls. Plus, since most of them are loyal to Starks, they do represent in a way the female wolf pack of the North...

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Generally a really great read. I think Sansa's gilded cage situation lends itself to your ideas about the domesticity of wild animals quite well.





When it comes to Arya, deconstruction of domesticity is done on almost every level. Her wild behavior clearly states that “she is no lady”. An entire deconstruction of the domesticity every noble-born girl should aspire to is done on every page of Arya’s POV. She is interested in “men’s businesses” like swordsmanship, riding, fighting, and all the interest, she as individual who happens to be female finds interesting, thus breaking the greatest stereotype that our gender defines our interests. Arya also provides us with a strong contrast to some other women, especially Cersei. Arya’s entire interest in man’s business doesn’t change the fact she is a woman, while on the other hand, Cersei’s greatest desire is to be a man, and she experiences power while satisfying other woman, “raping her like Robert”. Arya’s gender is never questioned. She is a female. It’s that simple. But, the problem Martin poses in front of us when Arya is in question is that by giving her manly interests, does he transform her gender. Is Arya’s gender changed by what she is interested in? And this is something where we can actually see Martin’s sheer brilliance and those subtle feminist slogans I mentioned at the beginning. GRRM’s Arya is an extraordinary girl, and although biologically and psychologically she hasn’t fully grown into a woman yet, that doesn’t mean she is not a female. And by not turning Arya in some hermaphrodite, Martin does an amazing job depicting Arya as a she-wolf, using all the aspects he can for 8 year-old child – fierce temper, predatory nature and wilderness.






I think maybe your language could be a little more informed when talking about Arya though; you seem to have some sex vs gender discrepancies. The roles she prefers to take on are indicative of masculine gender, not necessarily of sex (eg Brienne: female, self identified woman, masculine). Hermaphrodites have basically nothing to do with it as that tends to refer to intersex genitalia. Just some editing suggestions

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This has already been answered. The original idea was to analyze the Stark ladies - Lyanna, Sansa and Arya, but it grew in size and I expanded it on all Northern women, with emphasis on Mormont ladies and Manderly girls. Plus, since most of them are loyal to Starks, they do represent in a way the female wolf pack of the North...

Ok, sorry for missing it.

However that still does not make much sense to me as a wolf pack consists of wolves and don't include bears or merwomen. But since its not at all I'm gonna drop it.

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Something I generally never understand when it comes to human behavior in general, not just in these books, is the use of "dog" comparisons in offensive and contemptuous meanings. It's Man's Best Friend, right? The closest domestic animals we have, our pets and protectors, known for their devotion? So what's up with calling people "dogs" as an insult? It's especially bizarre when you contrast it with the use of wild animals, which are not friendly to humans and which most humans would run away from if they saw them outside of the zoo, as positive metaphors. There's something really fucked up about humans if they have so much respect only for wild predators, but despise the domestic animals and pets they live with and use, even those they supposedly love.

Calling someone a dog is a fairly common insult, yes. It's something along the lines of "slave", alluding to the role as the dog as man's servant. Dogs may be "man's best friend", but sadly the reverse is not always true, yet the situation is not one where the dog usually has any say in the matter.

Hence, calling someone a dog does not relate to any admirable abilities a dog might have (unlike the wild animal references, like brave as a lion etc.), but instead to the subservient position they have towards man. And saying that someone is subservient is, you guessed it; Insulting.

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This is not my best work for I am really too busy, so please be kind in your criticism :). Nevertheless, with a lot of pride and happiness I present you:




Arya and Sansa: Lyanna Stark's yin and yang




The story of Lyanna Stark and the truth about what truly happened to her have eluded the readers for the five installments of ASOIAF. From the secretive story about Knight of the laughing tree and suspicious kidnapping that arguably triggered the Rebellion that ended Targaryen reign to the mysterious parenthood of a bastard boy who is generally accepted as her son, nothing about Lyanna is certain and thus easily conclusive. So, to analyze who she really was, not only that we have to walk through the dark path of secrets and symbols, but also to guess and make some conclusions on our own. The truth about Lyanna Stark will have to wait for the next installments, and even then there is a slight chance we won’t know what truly happened 17 years prior to the current events.



What we know about Lyanna Stark came from the only man that appeared in the books who knew her – her brother Ned. And although Ned is not the most reliable source in these matters, in lack of other intelligence, we have to rely on some of his assessments and what he told about her. But, those small pieces of information are just the beginning, for this work will dwell on symbols and pieces of foreshadowing, some clues and literary parallels to go deeper in analyzing Lyanna and making some parallels with her character. At the end, it is my intention to show you, that although Arya is mostly compared to Lyanna, Lyanna actually represents the literary intersection between Ned’s two daughters.



The description of Lyanna Stark has always been rather interesting. The only daughter of Lord Rickard Stark was objectively quite the beauty, but below the feminine exteriority was hiding independent, willful and stubbornly uncompromising woman. Ned’s own description of Lyanna, although brotherly bias can be taken as accurate: a touch of wolf blood, iron beneath the beauty. Lyanna, just as her niece Arya, also had some odd interests, or at least odd for the women in society they lived. But unlike Arya who was allowed to pursue her interests, Lyanna wasn’t that lucky, for her father didn’t allow it. The comparison with Arya doesn’t end there. Ned explicitly says that Arya reminds him of Lyanna, and that they even share the looks and Harwin compared her riding with Lyanna’s in ASOS. The story about Knight of the laughing tree (for future reference, KoLT) also makes some striking parallels with Arya, as she-wolf protects the young crannogman from the abusive squires, wonderfully paralleling Arya’s defense of Mycah. So, we have two Stark women of similar looks, same blood and interests, even the same temper. Naturally, the parallels between two of them are easy to make, and they are never questioned. And if that is the Lyanna’s whole story, we would all be satisfied, but alas, it isn’t. And just as some events of Lyanna’s life complement her nature perfectly, the other daughter of Ned Stark complements her sister. For, perhaps in the union of the two sisters – both Arya and Sansa, we can find out who Lyanna genuinely was. For that we now have to embark on journey through the labyrinth of pieces of foreshadowing, hidden clues and symbols and with some conclusion we can make, also make some other parallels.



As I told, here we have to start concluding on our own. Harrenhal tourney and Tower of joy events are rather secretive, but through the story of Reed children about little crannogman and knight who saved him, Ned Stark’s memories and thoughts of some events, general opinion about Rhaegar, symbolism of the blue rose and the story about Bael the Bard, the pieces of that puzzle are coming together and truth is after all, not that elusive.



Let we start of what we know about Harrenhal tourney. From the Reed story, we know Lyanna was present there. We know how she defended the young Howland Reed, and we know how she cried during Rhaegar’s singing. This is rather striking contrast to the niece everyone’s comparing her to:



The dragon prince sang a song so sad it made the wolf maid sniffle, but when her pup brother teased her for crying she poured wine over his head.




“Singing is stupid,” said Arya. “Singing makes noise.




Sansa would know it, I bet. Her sister had known all the songs, and she could even play a little, and sing so sweetly. All I could ever do was shout the words.


The emotional reaction on singing Lyanna demonstrated obviously is not something anyone would expect of Arya. Truth be told, we don’t know what Rhaegar had been singing about, but one thing is certain – it touched Lyanna’s heart. And regardless whether it is song about some past lovers like Florian and Jonquil, or some heroic poem about Doom of Valyria or even the song he composed about Summerhal tragedy (quick derail crackpot: perhaps that’s the song Tom has sung to Ghost of High Heart?), the fact is that Lyanna enjoyed it and that song evoked some emotions. Between two sisters, the one that is more into songs would be Sansa. Naturally, one has also to point out the possibility of flawed comparison. Perhaps Lyanna was just into Rhaegar and not song at all, but we should also add that, if she was indeed into Rhaegar, the comparison with Sansa is even more striking. For falling in love with a prince you know nothing about isn’t Arya’s type of story.



The second piece of undeniable truth is Lyanna’s protection of Howland Reed. The protecting the weak and defenseless is something both Ned’s daughters did in separate occasions. The prime example for Arya is Mycah and her defense against Crown Prince. The same M.O. can be seen through her wanderings through Riverlands when she in several occasions identifies with the commonfolk and sympathize with them. On the other hand, Sansa also shows that side in many occasions. First one is the Dontos situation when she instinctively reacted to protect the foolish knight. Sansa’s resounding “You can’t” comes from the very same place as Lyanna’s defense for Howland or Arya’s for Mycah. The situations naturally don’t mirror each other, but the will and determination behind them shouldn’t be easily disregarded.



And of course the last fact we know about Lyanna and Harrenhal is of course Rhaegar’s crowning. Rhaegar, for some mysterious reasons, crowned Lyanna as Queen of love and beauty after winning the tourney. Needless to say, this piece can’t be connected in any way with Arya, but Sansa was also someone who was honored with a rose during the tourney. Sansa was given red rose by Ser Loras in his semifinal match with Mountain at Hand’s tourney. Although the victor of the tourney was never crowned, Ser Loras did name Sandor Clegane as the champion. That very same night, Sandor told Sansa very important piece of his past thus, perhaps in a way like Rhaegar did with Lyanna, showed his interest in Sansa.


So, all three motifs – the song, the defense of the weak and the crowning can be in different ways related to both Sansa and Arya. Now, with the help of some hidden clues and pieces of foreshadowing we will continue on unknown possible parallels between Lyanna and Ned’s daughters. First one is identity of KoLT and the second is Lyanna’s romantic involvement with Rhaegar.



The identity of Knight of laughing tree is one of the most debatable topics on the boards. Mostly people agree that it was Lyanna under the helmet, but there are other viable candidates like Howland or Benjen. For the purpose of this essay and out of personal belief, I will make logical leap and make a premise that Lyanna was indeed KoLT.



If Lyanna was indeed KoLT, the story has Arya’s parallels all over it. There is not one person here who would say that Arya wouldn’t pull something like that, especially having Mycah incident in mind. Challenging three squires to defend the honor of someone who can’t do it by themselves, doing something only boys are supposed to do and thus rejecting the feminine role she is predisposed in the world she is living, well, that does sound a lot like Arya. We shouldn’t forget that Arya is someone who deliberately went against all rules when she defended Mycah, something Lyanna would have done as KoLT. Even the mistaken identity of Arya as a boy parallels Lyanna’s possible ability to pose as a man, and we should also remember Harwin’s words about how she rode like her aunt Lyanna. So, if KoLT was indeed Lyanna, the story makes strong and powerful connection with Arya, not only in looks, interests and temper, but on much profound level of how both girls acted the same in very similar situations.



The other mystery surrounding Lyanna is her questionable involvement with Rhaegar. Was it love or rape? Who was right, Robert or those who trusted Rhaegar? Well, the parallel for this story, the one that gives us clues of what might have happened between Rhaegar and Lyanna is the story of Bael the Bard and symbolism of blue winter rose. And just as in the story of Bael and Stark daughter, blue rose is connected with the forbidden love and eloping from the world, Rhaegar’s crown of blue winter roses also symbolized love and beauty. It should also be noted that Lyanna held the crown of dead flowers in her hands when Ned found her. All of this led many people, myself included, that Robert’s “official” version is nothing more than one man’s attempt to negate the truth, and that Lyanna indeed loved Rhaegar and escaped with him so she wouldn’t marry Robert.



The premise is rather clear and I won’t spend more time explaining it since you must have read all about it. But, more importantly for this debate is whom does this story reminds you of? Arya? Not for a second. For, as prepubescent Arya said once reacting on Ned Dayne’s story “love is stupid”. Childish reaction, without any doubt, but enough to make it clear that parallels with Lyanna stops here. So, we have Stark daughter who fell in love in the Crown Prince she objectively knew nothing about and eloped with him on the damage of her own family. For this one, we should turn to Sansa, who basically did the same. Now, we can all argue that Rhaegar is not Joffrey that he was kind and good and gentle, but at the end, both girls did the same. There is no big difference in what they or in the consequences of their actions. Lyanna blindly followed her heart and arguably she was luckier with Rhaegar than Sansa was with Joffrey, but striking parallels between their actions talks a lot about how Sansa truly is a Stark daughter, and how many parallels is there between her and some Stark family members.



Another very important parallel between Lyanna and Sansa is in fact how they responded to the husbands others chose for them. We know from Ned’s testimony that Lyanna wasn’t very much into Robert:



“Robert will never keep to one bed,” Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm’s End. “I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale.” Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. “Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man’s nature.”




We can of course only speculate about whether the love for Rhaegar was the sole reason of her escaping or whether she also wanted to escape from the match her family made for her. One thing is certain. Perhaps not publically, but Lyanna certainly rejected Robert. Something very similar happened to Sansa during her wedding with Tyrion. She did it two times: when she refused to kneel in front of him making rather public statement about how she feels, which also goes very much into account of Starks being not kneelers, and second time was when she undoubtedly explained Tyrion that she might never want him. Wounded pride was the natural reaction for both men, as both Robert and Tyrion were rather hurt by what Lyanna and Sansa did to them respectively.



The last parallel between Lyanna and Ned’s elder daughter can be made between two descriptions:



“You never knew Lyanna as I did, Robert,” Ned told him. “You saw her beauty, but not the iron underneath.”




My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel.




Two great beauties Lyanna and Sansa are, also have a lot underneath the beautiful face. Although Lyanna is considered, just as Arya, harsher in terms of being stubborn, willful and strong-opinionated, thing is that Sansa isn’t far from that description. After the traumatic experience with Ned’s death and constant beating, Sansa, although compassionate and gentle girl, has also become much stronger and sometimes colder. And iron or steel underneath the beautiful face and body is something that characterizes both women.



Just as the yin and yang are opposite but complementary forces of universe, Arya and Sansa represent two faces of Lyanna. Denying one is actually denying Lyanna’s story in complete, for without one, the other part of Lyanna wouldn’t be possible. Lyanna’s story surpasses Sansa’s romantic soul or Arya’s wild nature, coexisting somewhere between, being at the same time both and none of two of Ned's girls.


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This is not my best work for I am really too busy, so please be kind in your criticism :).

You should give yourself more credit, Mladen. Your thoughtful essays are always appreciated. :thumbsup: Thank you!

I really enjoyed seeing the parallels to Sansa. Lyanna's similarities to Arya are much easier to fathom (especially since those are specifically pointed out by 2 different people). Sansa's likeness to Lyanna is more subtle, more nuanced (like everything with Sansa, lol) and are not specifically noted by anybody.

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Nice. Great comparisons. I totally agree.

On marriages though IMO we can make a parallel to Arya in the way that Lyanna considered her match and her reaction.

Arya's youthful, willful behavior is mirrored to Lyanna, as you made many great parallels. Sansa is dutiful more than Lyanna and Arya, and approaches both matches made for her as so. Even though she objected to the marriage and bedding with Tyrion, and showed defiance, she did consent as was her duty. I can't help but think if Arya had been made a match that was unsatisfactory to her, as Lyanna felt Robert, that she would be thinking of a way out of it, rather than succumbing to her duty to marry the man chosen. Maybe it wouldn't have been running off to marry the handsome kind prince who sings so lovely, that much is definitely Sansa. Lyanna, if she was not kidnapped, is embodying Sansa's romanticism, and Arya's rebellious nature (in a thoughtful way) in her choice to disappear with Rheagar.

Also I think given time to mature I could see Arya developing a sense of her feminine self we see in Lyanna. I could see her more as a Lyanna type character, beauty with iron underneath, rather than a Brienne type, ugly and strong and masculine. She is called beautiful by Lady Smallwood when dressed up, and gets some affection from Gendry as well. If she was, say 13 or 14, that attention may have inspired a different reaction from her, probably ending with a smooch.

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