[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]

[Victarious]

Because D&D used to say 8 seasons (or 80 episodes) whenever this question came up. Actually, at one point I think they even said "80 or 90 episodes," so even if they considered 9 seasons unlikely, at one point they were still wishfully thinking for it. They then spent the next several seasons saying 80 episodes/8 seasons. 7 didn't seem to be seriously on the table until last year when Frank Doelger said 7, and even that it was phrased so it could mean that the show would reach 7 seasons, not necessarily end with 7. These latest statements appear to be definitive that HBO wants to finish on 7 (though an extra-long final season could still be possible). The fact they made a statement about it specifically to EW, especially after the Vanity Fair interview which was probably done a couple of weeks ago, suggests that this is a final decision.

I also have to say that I don't read HBO's statement as saying that 8 is even remotely on the cards at all, merely that the HBO president is saying their longest shows have gone 7 or 8 seasons, so 7 is about right, especially when it's their live-action dramas that have only reached 7 and only their (relatively) cheap comedies that have made it to 8 or more.

If Season 7 gets an extended season, how do you think they'll go about producing it? Will it be split up in halves and shown a year apart ala Breaking Bad/Mad Men? Or will it be an extended season that airs exclusively in 2017? And if they do extend it, what's the most they could add to it, 5-6 episodes? I think a 7th season consisting of 15 episodes should be sufficient, since 75 is closer to their originally intended amount. That could cost a lot of money though...

[Victarious]

Youy may very well be right, but I don't believe they ever said 90 episodes (or 9 seasons), and as far as I know, they only said "80 hours" in one or two occasions as a rather off-hand remark.

They've only ever said 70-90, with emphasis put on 80. They've never mentioned 90 specifically. They did go as far as to rule out 100 but that's it.

[DaveyJoe]

What D&D used to say is irrelevant. The most recent indicates 7 seasons. The problem is that George hasn't finished the books. AWOW and/or ADOS will likely be very long, but all D&D have to work with is the broad strokes. GRRM said he left out a lot of the details. They could probably stretch it to 8 seasons if they actually had all of the details of the book to work with. Imagine adapting ASOS without the actual novel, but just the major plot details, you could probably compress it into one season. So D&D are going to have to make hard decisions and cut a lot of the setup in AFFC/ADWD and include the bare necessities from AWOW/ADOS. Interestingly enough, this will probably mean the last 3 seasons of the show will be much tighter than the last several books.

[Victarious]

What D&D used to say is irrelevant. The most recent indicates 7 seasons. The problem is that George hasn't finished the books. AWOW and/or ADOS will likely be very long, but all D&D have to work with is the broad strokes. GRRM said he left out a lot of the details. They could probably stretch it to 8 seasons if they actually had all of the details of the book to work with. Imagine adapting ASOS without the actual novel, but just the major plot details, you could probably compress it into one season. So D&D are going to have to make hard decisions and cut a lot of the setup in AFFC/ADWD and include the bare necessities from AWOW/ADOS. Interestingly enough, this will probably mean the last 3 seasons of the show will be much tighter than the last several books.

If it means the pacing is faster it'll satisfy a lot of unsullied.

[Werthead]

Google turned up this.

The idea that we’re telling an 80 or 90-hour story appealed to us

And this.

You know, we loved it from the beginning, and when we met HBO and pitched the project we told them that it was a potentially eight or nine season story—it’s all one story, with a beginning, a middle, and an end.

And that was as late as the start of Season 2, which is later than I thought.

If Season 7 gets an extended season, how do you think they'll go about producing it? Will it be split up in halves and shown a year apart ala Breaking Bad/Mad Men? Or will it be an extended season that airs exclusively in 2017? And if they do extend it, what's the most they could add to it, 5-6 episodes?

The only realistic way, I can see, is if they combined a longer season with a move to Boardwalk Empire's September timeslot. That gives them 4 more months of writing, filming and post, which could easily give them another 5 episodes. If they then delayed Season 7.5 six months (say to April 2018), they could even do another 10 episodes altogther (so ultimately 80 hours, but technically only 7 seasons).

I don't get any indication at all they are thinking of doing this, though, and the logjams on episode production give them effectively no time to make more episodes on their normal timeframe, even without needing to start writing for the next season. So without a delay in the final season, or it being split in two, I don't think we'll get any more than 10 episodes. Maybe 11 but even that would be a stretch.

[Mr Fixit]

Google turned up this.

And this.

And that was as late as the start of Season 2, which is later than I thought.

A question presents itself then. What changed in the meantime? HBO was at least tentatively OK with D&D's initial estimates as it's unlikely they'd have mentioned these numbers on several occasions otherwise. GoT became an international hit, viewing figures are fantastic, DVD and Blu-ray sales astronomical, merchandising through the roof... Why would HBO change their minds after seeing this?

[Victarious]

A question presents itself then. What changed in the meantime? HBO was at least tentatively OK with D&D's initial estimates as it's unlikely they'd have mentioned these numbers on several occasions otherwise. GoT became an international hit, viewing figures are fantastic, DVD and Blu-ray sales astronomical, merchandising through the roof... Why would HBO change their minds after seeing this?

D&D changed their minds, when they realized book 6 was nowhere in sight. The 'maybe' for 8 seasons is if book 6 is released in time.

[TheRatCook]

Now that we have seen and analyzed the trailers for Season 4, and they definitely included some ADWD stuff, it seems like they may finish the plots of the already published books by the end of season 6.

I'm of the opinion that GRRM is for the most part done with TWOW, and now it just needs to be completed and edited, and that he can certainly get it out by next year at the latest.

Judging by other things I have read, D&D have given him a talking to about getting the books done asap.

I'm sure he also knows it is not in his best interest financially to let the show overtake the books because then some people, at least causal fans, have less incentive to buy the books. They will already know what happened so why bother.

No, I think he will get it done on time. He has no other choice unless the show is cancelled, or he wants to take a hit financially and/or let the show reveal the ending he was been working on for so long.

[The Prince of Newcastle]

I watched season 1 and 2 before I even knew it was a book. I've now read all the novels twice.

I would stop watching if the show overtook the books.

[Mr Fixit]

D&D changed their minds, when they realized book 6 was nowhere in sight. The 'maybe' for 8 seasons is if book 6 is released in time.

I'd think this would sooner be a decision someone from HBO makes.

[Draco_Dracul]

Now that we have seen and analyzed the trailers for Season 4, and they definitely included some ADWD stuff, it seems like they may finish the plots of the already published books by the end of season 6.

Try season 5.

[Victarious]

Now that we have seen and analyzed the trailers for Season 4, and they definitely included some ADWD stuff, it seems like they may finish the plots of the already published books by the end of season 6.

Uh.. no. Season 5.

[Victarious]

I'd think this would sooner be a decision someone from HBO makes.

That is very possible as well.

[TheRatCook]

Try season 5.

Right. That is what I meant. Thanks.

I think they could stretch some of the events from the end of AFFC and ADWD into 6, but they definitely need new content, meaning, TWOW needs to come out next year at the very latest.

I'm optimistic that it will, and maybe even the end of this year if its mostly done. That would be better, to give him more time to start book 7. If TWOW is really long as Martin has stated, then maybe it takes 1 and a half to 2 seasons to play out like ASOS, giving him just enough time to get out ADOS if the show goes to 8 seasons.

Like I said, if GRRM has any sense, he will want to finish this on his own terms.

I know that he is a slow writer, and that given his publishing history pessimism is warranted, but on account of the present situation, he just has no other good option but to push himself to finish the series sooner than he may have otherwise.

[Werthead]

A question presents itself then. What changed in the meantime? HBO was at least tentatively OK with D&D's initial estimates as it's unlikely they'd have mentioned these numbers on several occasions otherwise. GoT became an international hit, viewing figures are fantastic, DVD and Blu-ray sales astronomical, merchandising through the roof... Why would HBO change their minds after seeing this?

I think 9 seasons was always pie-in-the-sky, but they hoped HBO might be okay with it.

As for why HBO won't go for 8, I think it's a combination of factors: the contract renegotiations for both cast and crew (Benioff and Weiss's contacts are up for renewal this year and now they can renew them right through the end of Season 7 rather than doing two 2-year contracts, which would be more expensive) are probably a primary concern, but I think HBO also like the idea of getting some more hit shows on the air that are less complex and expensive to produce. True Blood and Boardwalk Empire are ending, but True Detective has shown that HBO can still get some great stuff out there and they may be looking forwards to a new era of having several hit shows on which don't cost $70 million+ per season (HBO could literally fund 2 smaller-scale series like Girls with the budget that GoT is taking up by itself). People like Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke getting cast in big movies (and Dinklage's prospective new HBO series) probably means that the actors (and their agents) are keener to wrap up GoT sooner rather than later.

I also do think the 'strangling the golden goose' thing is increasingly paramount in their minds. Whilst GoT will only be 70 episodes long (maybe a few more if they can do something extra for the final season), the audience will still have been with them for seven years, which is probably stretching it for bringing a tightly-serialised story to a conclusion.

[Creepio]

The real question is what's going to happen to these forums. Will the ASOIAF boards be populated with threads tagged [sHOW SPOILERS]? And who will be the real unsullied?

If I lived on a deserted island, I'd definitely wait for the books first. But I don't see it actually being realistic when the time comes. And I want to know what happens.

[ColdDrake]

Can't say that we didn't see this coming, but it still hurts. I enjoy the tv show but I'd much rather read the ending first. GRRM has let us down. TWOW will probably be the last time we read an ASOIAF book completely unspoiled. I can't see Benioff and Weiss changing the fate of every character and creating an entirely different ending of their own. Unless GRRM gives them another, alternate set of character fates and plot resolutions on purpose so that the show and books go down very different paths...but I doubt that.

As far as the quality of the show goes, I think 7 seasons is ideal. It will keep things tight and moving along briskly. I liked season 3 but I think splitting ASOS hurt it a bit.

[Werthead]

The real question is what's going to happen to these forums. Will the ASOIAF boards be populated with threads tagged [sHOW SPOILERS]? And who will be the real unsullied?

That's for Ran and Linda to decide, but I think it'll be basically what we have now, just reversed: discussion of the TV show in the book threads will be strictly prohibited. In fact, I'd rather simplify the process by removing all TV discussion from the book threads altogether (even with spoiler warnings), and keep discussions on what elements from the TV show will make it into the last books firmly on the TV subforum. That prevents any kind of accidental spoilerage occuring at all.

We're still likely two years from that being a major concern, however.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Yes. I might not like it, but watching the show is better than getting spoiled on the internet.

The only way I can see George making it in time is, if tWoW is released before season 5 (Q12015) and aDoS is released before season 8 (season 8 being all of aDoS).

[Creepio]

Yes. I might not like it, but watching the show is better than getting spoiled on the internet.

The only way I can see George making it in time is, if tWoW is released before season 5 (Q12015) and aDoS is released before season 8 (season 8 being all of aDoS).

Except that it will most likely just be 7 seasons, so there's practically no chance for Martin. Not that we didn't always know this, but now it's horribly obvious.