[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]

[Cyril]

Quite frankly, I've been reading the books since ~2001 and just want to see character progression more than once every 5 (10 for the Dance characters) years. I'll definitely continue watching. After investing yourself in a series for so long the wait is tedious more than anything. I may prefer the books, but at least I'll get some sense of closure for my favorite character arcs that I can fill in later with the proper details.

[metr0man]

Wow some people are really in kooky land if they think HBO is going to stall their cash cow to wait for a slow fantasy writer! Lol!

The fact is the show is only as close to the books and only indulges GRRM with screenplays solely out of the good graces of Beniof and Weiss. Plain and simple. Go look at how close True Blood is to the Skokie Stackhouse novels or Dexter to those novels. If HBO thinks it's in their best interest they will run from the books so fast it makes your head spin.

If you don't like it GRRM, force the issue by writing faster.

[Oscrr1997]

If you don't like it GRRM, force the issue by writing faster.

Unfortunately, agreed

[Seneti]

I wonder if they will split Season 5 into two parts. They could broadcast 8 episodes (Season 5A) next year, and broadcast 6 episodes (Season 5B) in 2016. Season 5 will be adapted from two lengthy novels, so there is enough material to possibly justify this.

They would then be able to broadcast the adaptation of The Winds of Winter as Season 6 in 2017. There would be an outside chance they could then tie up the series in 2018 with their adaptation of A Dream of Spring.

Unlikely. Producing a longer season would require more time for shooting, editing, post-production etc. Doing so in the middle of the series would derail schedules for the rest of the series. If we are going to see a longer season (and that is a big if), it'll be the last season, when there is no more time pressure on the cast to get everything done so the new season can go into pre-production.

As for AFFC and ADWD: they are long books because they are bloated books. I hope D&D take a pair of industrial strength scalpels to them and cut of a lot of the fat. No viewer will stay around for two years of travelogues and failed rule.

[King Henrik]

Unlikely. Producing a longer season would require more time for shooting, editing, post-production etc. Doing so in the middle of the series would derail schedules for the rest of the series. If we are going to see a longer season (and that is a big if), it'll be the last season, when there is no more time pressure on the cast to get everything done so the new season can go into pre-production.

As for AFFC and ADWD: they are long books because they are bloated books. I hope D&D take a pair of industrial strength scalpels to them and cut of a lot of the fat. No viewer will stay around for two years of travelogues and failed rule.

I think it is unlikely too. However, if they are contractually unable to adapt Winds of Winter or Dream of Spring until the novels are released then there would be few other options.

In this scenario they wouldn't film Season 5A and 5B at the same time. For Breaking Bad they had season 5A and 5B filmed and broadcast a year apart. Breaking Bad season 5B was essentially season 6. They just contractually couldn't call it that. I'm suggesting they might do similar trickery with Game of Thrones.

I absolutely agree that Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons are bloated and frequently boring. However, the producers could take some creative licence to translate them to exciting TV episodes.

[Seneti]

I think it is unlikely too. However, if they are contractually unable to adapt Winds of Winter or Dream of Spring until the novels are released then there would be few other options.

In this scenario they wouldn't film Season 5A and 5B at the same time. For Breaking Bad they had season 5A and 5B filmed and broadcast a year apart. Breaking Bad season 5B was essentially season 6. They just contractually couldn't call it that. I'm suggesting they might do similar trickery with Game of Thrones.

I absolutely agree that Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons are bloated and frequently boring. However, the producers could take some creative licence to translate them to exciting TV episodes.

About the contract: I doubt that HBO would have agreed to sign a contract that would put a potential stopper on a 100 million dollar project. As for translating book 4 and 5 to TV, I'm pretty sure there'll be both (lots of cutting and lots of "creative translating") and thank the gods for that.

[King Henrik]

About the contract: I doubt that HBO would have agreed to sign a contract that would put a potential stopper on a 100 million dollar project. As for translating book 4 and 5 to TV, I'm pretty sure there'll be both (lots of cutting and lots of "creative translating") and thank the gods for that.

Actually, my scenario is a proposal that would be an alternative to putting a "stopper on a 100 million dollar project".

As I said in my post, I think it is unlikely that the show wouldn't be allowed to overtake the books. However, as far as I'm aware, they haven't made a definitive statement on that. I was merely speculating on what they might do if they couldn't overtake the books.

Of course they will make changes from Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons. They have made changes from every book so far. I was suggesting that the producers would make more substantial changes from the source material of those novels.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

so...... Is this now a legitimate question?

Did the show pass up the books in last night's episode?

[TheBadboy]

so...... Is this now a legitimate question?

Did the show pass up the books in last night's episode?

Cersei vs Marg already started.

Meereen problems already started.

Brienne journey already started and will finish in the season finale when she crosses UnCat. I don't know what she is doing next season

Sansa's journey fast forwarded.

Next episode 1 st Lysa episode. Episode 7 " Mocking Bird " - Only Cat. Already!!! I wonder what Sansa will do for next 13 episodes -_-

Sam leaving to Oldtown before episode 9

Bran reaching the cave in the finale.

Olenna already left KL.

Theon and Ramsay already having the Moat Cailin Arc.

That's all so deep in deep into Dance and Feast.

Season 5 is it.

Noway the show is not passing the books

[Alysanne Snow]

I think for next season the only characters who really jumped the gun are:

Dany- My one concern about the Meereen arc is that they're going to prolong it and add more stupid filler a la season 2 if they're trying to keep season 5 within the limits of Dance. I don't need a season and a half in Meereen. Maybe her field trip to the Dothraki Sea can also be fit into season 5 and season 6 can see her (finally) leaving for Westeros? This is probably me being overly hopeful, but I really don't trust the showrunners to handle Dany in Meereen, as they tend to flounder with her whenever there's not enough action (once again, season 2 I'm looking at you) and the Meereen plot wasn't even great in GRRM's much more capable hands.

Bran- Yep, he's going to be a problem, as he doesn't do much in either Feast or Dance but, as we saw tonight, the showrunners will make up new material for him. I can't wait to meet Bloodraven and the Children, personally, and think there are plenty of places they could go with that plot without overtaking the books, particularly if they backtrack and re-add in some of the history we've all been waiting to see. Honestly, I really enjoyed tonight's changes and am fine with them throwing us tidbits of world-building through bran and co. Maybe we'll even get some easter eggs from Dunk and Egg, particularly if HBO is considering a spin-off.

Brienne- God only knows where they'll go with it. I really, really hope, as with Dany, that they don't drag out her plotline, as we don't really need a season and a half of searching for Sansa. I wouldn't mind if they just cut ahead to Winds in season 5, or if they were able to come up with something for her to do that is interesting and makes some degree of sense. Maybe give her a cut character's plot line? Perhaps one of the now defunct Tyrells'? God only knows there are plenty of them to choose from.

Theon- I don't really think he's too far ahead. He's a bit into post-ASOS territory, but not irrecoverably, particularly with the attempted Yara rescue to deal with and the relatively small amount of screen time he receives compared to the rest of the cast. The show-runners can introduce fArya next season and, at farthest, end with the WoW teaser chapter we've already read (although I'd prefer if they stopped at the flight from Winterfell, as it seems a better stopping point but I don't know how they plan on pacing it). They can certainly fill a season with the Boltons ruling Winterfell.

All other POVs I can think of seem more or less on course to finish up ASOS this season and begin season 5 where they should, although I'm expecting (and hoping) much of Feast and Dance will be cut. I'd love to still see some of the Martells, but both books were heavy on filler that won't translate well to TV. I don't mind getting spoiled, however, as I'm not reading for the shock value. Honestly, I sort of like having spoilers as it's a lot easier to pick up on the details when I'm not frantically worrying who is going to die next. I did spoil myself for the last two books before reading (admittedly because I wasn't sure I wanted to read them after hearing reviews) and it didn't take away my enjoyment in the slightest. Personally, I think the Unsullied must be practically inhuman to have NOT gone hunting through AWOIAF. I can get lost in that site for days and I have read the books. So yes, I will still watch eagerly. I think it's a good show, although it's more or less the only thing I regularly watch on TV so I don't have a great basis for comparison. I'm more of a book person in general.

[Itchyscratch]

so...... Is this now a legitimate question?

Did the show pass up the books in last night's episode?

Yes, and from this point on book-only fans can increasingly be referred to as Unsullied just to piss them off.

[Zezibesh]

Well, now the HBO viewer's guide has spoiled the identity of the Other in the episode;

yeah, the Night's King

, I'm definitely not watching the show anymore. I already had issues with many of the changes, last week's being one of the worst, but this is too much.

[Miodrag]

The fact is the show is only as close to the books and only indulges GRRM with screenplays solely out of the good graces of Beniof and Weiss. Plain and simple.

D&D are in a position to make an HBO show only because someone - GRRM, more precisely - made a brilliant series of novels that is impossible to be adapted into a movie, or into a TV show regulated by non-cable restrictions. Feel free to be grateful to D&D for "bringing to life" these "unadaptable books" as much as you want. You'll hardly be alone in that. However, I see nothing but opportunism on their part. Plain and simple. It looks like they're infinitely more capable of seizing a business opportunity than of creating an adaptation that does justice to its complex source material. (Better for them if a faithful adaptation of ASOIAF was never their goal in the first place, I guess.)

About two of them indulging GRRM, as you say, I'd really like to see them on their own. You know, not indulging anyone, let alone that bearded old fellow who thinks he knows his Westeros and Essos just because he created them. I can't wait to see the fans' reaction to the mess the show will become once it clearly overpasses the books and rests solely in the creative hands of D&D. I'm probably not going to watch it, but not because of possible spoilers - D&D were not faithful to the novels even when the show would obviously benefit from it, so I don't expect them to follow/use/respect any vague foreknowledge of the story's conclusion; hence, nothing they do in the show can make me think GRRM will do it the same way. I won't watch it because it will probably be unwatchable, just like the show becomes almost every time it strays from the source material. But, the viewership's reaction to such a mess will be something to behold.

[Meimzos]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I could've sworn I read somewhere that GRRM has told D&D where the series is going/how it all ends?

Guys, look. There's an awful lot of "I'm not watching anymore" or what-have-you. You're free to do what you want... but y'all had to know going into this that there is absolutely no way you're going to cram the entire story of ASOIAF into 70 (or even 100) hours' worth of *good* television. It's just not possible. There's entirely too many details. Too many arcs, too many characters, too many plot-lines to follow.

Which of those details are minor? Which of those details are major?

The bottom line is this - do you enjoy watching the show? Before you answer that, you should probably take into consideration that the books are massive and the show has only so many dollars it can spend. Every minute of screen time has a dollar figure attached to it. With that in mind, understand that creative adaptation is going to occur. I waited for Sandor to receive the "grievous" wound at the inn in S4E1 that would ultimately result in his life. Didn't happen. Will it? Dunno - this is a whole new ride now and I'm taking it for what it is. Maybe you should lower your expectations - who knows? You might find you enjoy it more.

[Seneti]

Cersei vs Marg already started.

Meereen problems already started.

Brienne journey already started and will finish in the season finale when she crosses UnCat. I don't know what she is doing next season

Sansa's journey fast forwarded.

Next episode 1 st Lysa episode. Episode 7 " Mocking Bird " - Only Cat. Already!!! I wonder what Sansa will do for next 13 episodes -_-

Sam leaving to Oldtown before episode 9

Bran reaching the cave in the finale.

Olenna already left KL.

Theon and Ramsay already having the Moat Cailin Arc.

That's all so deep in deep into Dance and Feast.

Season 5 is it.

Noway the show is not passing the books

I agree. As a matter of fact, when it comes to the WW it already has passed the books. As for the other points you mentioned: I doubt we'll have "Only Cat" in episode 7. More likely, next week will be the reintroduction of Lysa, ep. 7 will be snow castle and ep. 10 will be "Only Cat" followed by LS.

I think for next season the only characters who really jumped the gun are:

Dany- My one concern about the Meereen arc is that they're going to prolong it and add more stupid filler a la season 2 if they're trying to keep season 5 within the limits of Dance. I don't need a season and a half in Meereen. Maybe her field trip to the Dothraki Sea can also be fit into season 5 and season 6 can see her (finally) leaving for Westeros? This is probably me being overly hopeful, but I really don't trust the showrunners to handle Dany in Meereen, as they tend to flounder with her whenever there's not enough action (once again, season 2 I'm looking at you) and the Meereen plot wasn't even great in GRRM's much more capable hands.

Bran- Yep, he's going to be a problem, as he doesn't do much in either Feast or Dance but, as we saw tonight, the showrunners will make up new material for him. I can't wait to meet Bloodraven and the Children, personally, and think there are plenty of places they could go with that plot without overtaking the books, particularly if they backtrack and re-add in some of the history we've all been waiting to see. Honestly, I really enjoyed tonight's changes and am fine with them throwing us tidbits of world-building through bran and co. Maybe we'll even get some easter eggs from Dunk and Egg, particularly if HBO is considering a spin-off.

Brienne- God only knows where they'll go with it. I really, really hope, as with Dany, that they don't drag out her plotline, as we don't really need a season and a half of searching for Sansa. I wouldn't mind if they just cut ahead to Winds in season 5, or if they were able to come up with something for her to do that is interesting and makes some degree of sense. Maybe give her a cut character's plot line? Perhaps one of the now defunct Tyrells'? God only knows there are plenty of them to choose from.

Theon- I don't really think he's too far ahead. He's a bit into post-ASOS territory, but not irrecoverably, particularly with the attempted Yara rescue to deal with and the relatively small amount of screen time he receives compared to the rest of the cast. The show-runners can introduce fArya next season and, at farthest, end with the WoW teaser chapter we've already read (although I'd prefer if they stopped at the flight from Winterfell, as it seems a better stopping point but I don't know how they plan on pacing it). They can certainly fill a season with the Boltons ruling Winterfell.

All other POVs I can think of seem more or less on course to finish up ASOS this season and begin season 5 where they should, although I'm expecting (and hoping) much of Feast and Dance will be cut. I'd love to still see some of the Martells, but both books were heavy on filler that won't translate well to TV. I don't mind getting spoiled, however, as I'm not reading for the shock value. Honestly, I sort of like having spoilers as it's a lot easier to pick up on the details when I'm not frantically worrying who is going to die next. I did spoil myself for the last two books before reading (admittedly because I wasn't sure I wanted to read them after hearing reviews) and it didn't take away my enjoyment in the slightest. Personally, I think the Unsullied must be practically inhuman to have NOT gone hunting through AWOIAF. I can get lost in that site for days and I have read the books. So yes, I will still watch eagerly. I think it's a good show, although it's more or less the only thing I regularly watch on TV so I don't have a great basis for comparison. I'm more of a book person in general.

Dany- No way will they spend 1.5 seasons with Dany failing to rule Mereen. I think ep. 9 of season 5 will be the battle of Meereen (so unless WoW is out by then, the show will overpass the books).

Bran- He will meet BR in ep. 10, so he'll probably spend season 5 learning how to warg more creatures and use the weirnet. This will also be D&Ds best opportunity to give us much needed backstory (if R+L=J is true).

Brienne- I agree. 1.5 seasons of travelogue would be boring. She'll probably meet LS in ep. 10 of season 4 or ep. 1 or 2 or 3 of season 5. Then we'll be in WoW territory.

Theon- I agree with everything you said.

Edited to include quotes.

[Colonel Green]

More likely, next week will be the reintroduction of Lysa, ep. 7 will be snow castle and ep. 10 will be "Only Cat" followed by LS.

I don't believe the Moon Door will be in episode 7 either, but there's no way the snow castle scene is going to be in episode 7 if the Moon Door is in episode 10. Those two scenes are linked. Having the first, then cutting away for two episodes, would utterly kill any dramatic tension.

[YouSnowNothing]

Yeah, after very nearly disowning the show after THAT scene in 4x03, I am now more excited about it than ever. I have literally no idea what's going to happen with this whole Jon/Bran/Crasters thing. Or the inevitable Asha thing either. Or what's happening with Arya and the Hound, or Daenerys... the point is, I like this. It's gonna be a fun ride, and it's a totally different beast to the books so I don't have to worry about faithfulness. I view it in the same way I view the Harry Potter movies - not the true story, and though they do some things better they also do a lot worse, but perfectly enjoyable in their own right.

[Werthead]

However, if they are contractually unable to adapt Winds of Winter or Dream of Spring until the novels are released then there would be few other options.

They are contractually able to adapt Books 6 and 7 even if they're not out. They've been pretty specific about that, talking about going to Santa Fe to sit down with George and specifically get the endgame for all the characters in case they do overtake.

The fact is the show is only as close to the books and only indulges GRRM with screenplays solely out of the good graces of Beniof and Weiss

And contractual obligations: GRRM getting an episode a year seems to be in his contract. How close they stick to the books, not so much. GRRM has specifically said when he's had issues with choices D&D made (killing Mago, doing odd things with Marillion etc) and they were still able to make them regardless.

[Seneti]

I don't believe the Moon Door will be in episode 7 either, but there's no way the snow castle scene is going to be in episode 7 if the Moon Door is in episode 10. Those two scenes are linked. Having the first, then cutting away for two episodes, would utterly kill any dramatic tension.

I don't know, I could see them as two separate scenes. Then again, Lady Waynwood and some of the Vale Lords are going to appear in this season as well, so maybe that will be in ep. 7 and we get snow castle and moon door in ep. 10?

[Ignorant Bog Woman]

People are living in Lysa-land if they think avoiding spoilers for years will work out, more so if they believe the book(s) will be out before the "adaptation."

I'd rather read the ending, but George isn't allowing me the luxury. So I'm watching.