Jump to content

[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]


Stubby

Recommended Posts

Ok, thank you all for clearing that up for me. I had no idea he sold the rights to it all and how it all looked. Well, the decision will have to be made whether to watch to show or not when it overpasses the books. I don't want to be spoiled... On the other hand there are so many sites which I visit that can have spoilers and it will be hard to not stumble on them. That's a bit of a pickle.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could pretend, as a book fan, that I am gonna try to wait and read the book first.

This resolution it's probably gonna last 0.3 minutes: I am a spoiler bitch. I am one of the people who read the last page of a book first. So I am not, I will just take show and book as two separate things and I am gonna enjoy them both. The show will still be enjoyable to watch, and the book afterwards will give me that extra depth that a TV show is inevitably missing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The big irony here is that Martin apparently hates fan fiction and I can't believe why on earth did he decide to sell the rights (not having the books finished on top of that).

I'm really glad he did, I love the TV series, but had I been the writer of ASOIAF I doubt I would've give away the rights at all.

But one of the reasons he accepted was that DD UNDERSTOOD his work. The problem with Fanfiction is that many authors don't understand the characters or situations they portray, and they completely miss the point and create stupid tropes like Mary Sues or Draco Malfoy in Leather Pants. I'm sure GRRM is smart enough to know some changes will be made because books and tv are different media (and he has work in both of them). Also, considering that he spent a full day telling them about every character's fate, he knew this could happen at some point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But one of the reasons he accepted was that DD UNDERSTOOD his work. The problem with Fanfiction is that many authors don't understand the characters or situations they portray, and they completely miss the point and create stupid tropes like Mary Sues or Draco Malfoy in Leather Pants. I'm sure GRRM is smart enough to know some changes will be made because books and tv are different media (and he has work in both of them). Also, considering that he spent a full day telling them about every character's fate, he knew this could happen at some point.

I'd also like to point out the fact that not all fanfiction is bad. That's another assumption people are making when using it as an insult in regards to the TV series, but there's some bloody good fanfiction out there, even if the majority is crap. But really, the entire genre of fantasy novels tends to be like that.

(On the subject of Mary Sues, Rhapsody from Symphony of the Ages is quite possibly the worst Mary-Sue I have encountered in any media, ever. Mary Sues are not restricted to fanfiction).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also like to point out the fact that not all fanfiction is bad. That's another assumption people are making when using it as an insult in regards to the TV series, but there's some bloody good fanfiction out there, even if the majority is crap. But really, the entire genre of fantasy novels tends to be like that.

(On the subject of Mary Sues, Rhapsody from Symphony of the Ages is quite possibly the worst Mary-Sue I have encountered in any media, ever. Mary Sues are not restricted to fanfiction).

^This. Many writers started out with fan fiction. I remember Steven Moffat saying that he started writing Doctor Who fan fiction long ago, and now he's the head writer and show runner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also like to point out the fact that not all fanfiction is bad. That's another assumption people are making when using it as an insult in regards to the TV series, but there's some bloody good fanfiction out there, even if the majority is crap. But really, the entire genre of fantasy novels tends to be like that.

Yeah, spot on. It's really weird the way it gets thrown around here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

D&D are in a position to make an HBO show only because someone - GRRM, more precisely - made a brilliant series of novels that is impossible to be adapted into a movie, or into a TV show regulated by non-cable restrictions. Feel free to be grateful to D&D for "bringing to life" these "unadaptable books" as much as you want. You'll hardly be alone in that. However, I see nothing but opportunism on their part. Plain and simple. It looks like they're infinitely more capable of seizing a business opportunity than of creating an adaptation that does justice to its complex source material. (Better for them if a faithful adaptation of ASOIAF was never their goal in the first place, I guess.)

About two of them indulging GRRM, as you say, I'd really like to see them on their own. You know, not indulging anyone, let alone that bearded old fellow who thinks he knows his Westeros and Essos just because he created them. I can't wait to see the fans' reaction to the mess the show will become once it clearly overpasses the books and rests solely in the creative hands of D&D. I'm probably not going to watch it, but not because of possible spoilers - D&D were not faithful to the novels even when the show would obviously benefit from it, so I don't expect them to follow/use/respect any vague foreknowledge of the story's conclusion; hence, nothing they do in the show can make me think GRRM will do it the same way. I won't watch it because it will probably be unwatchable, just like the show becomes almost every time it strays from the source material. But, the viewership's reaction to such a mess will be something to behold.

I think this is ignorance more than anything. When will people come to realize that this series is exactly what GRRM said it would be. He said he wrote a series that would be impossible to translate to screen, and even though D&D are doing an adaptation of ASOIAF, they are not translating it because it is indeed impossible. I think these guys have actually done an excellent job doing their best to try and translate as much as they can from George's work to the screen, but it is impossible for them be faithful to the novels in a lot of aspects based mainly on all of the restrictions they are dealing with.

GRRM said it himself, he has none of the restrictions they do. If he wants an undead, wight figure, who rides a giant 600 pound elk that is surrounded by 500 crows, then he can put that in his medium pretty easily. If D&D want to put this in their medium, we are talking hours and hours of work that has to be done to do this. CGI, make up, trying to train animals, etc. That's why it's an adaptation, and it's why I understand and I am fine with it if they decide to not include a character here, or add a character instead because within these restrictions this was the best way to convey that part of the story,

These guys have to deal with props, clothing, fake weapons, cameras, lighting, production equipment. They have to deal with crew members doing their job right, cast members who need hours of prep time to look how they are supposed to. They have time restrictions per episode, editing deadlines, they have to add in CGI and the list goes on and on and on. I am extremely grateful of what these guys are doing. Considering everything that goes into making this show, I'm surprised they have able to adapt it as closly to the book as they have so far. If anyone expects anything more from these guys then I think it's a dilusional thought. Even though I may be a bit dissapointed that something in the show was different than something I read, I'll never start blaming these guys for it. I get the restrictions they are working with and realize how monumental this task is that they are trying to accomplish here, and chalk up that difference to this.

MY preferred way to see these stories is through the books. I'd love nothing more than to have the next 2 books come out way before the show catches up, and be able to see how this all plays out by reading it first. Couldn't ask for more than that really. I'll say this though, if the books aren't out in time, and D&D have to show us new material before we get to read it, you'd better believe my eyes will be glued to the screen. It certainly will not be their fault if their source material has to come more from their creativity and less from a book. They've said time and again they do not wish the show content to overtake the books, but it's not going to be up to them now is it? I have complete faith also, from everything I've seen so far, that these guys will do their best to tell their verision of this story while keeping as faithful to George's story as is possible, within the constraints of the medium they are working in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is ignorance more than anything. When will people come to realize that this series is exactly what GRRM said it would be. He said he wrote a series that would be impossible to translate to screen, and even though D&D are doing an adaptation of ASOIAF, they are not translating it because it is indeed impossible. I think these guys have actually done an excellent job doing their best to try and translate as much as they can from George's work to the screen, but it is impossible for them be faithful to the novels in a lot of aspects based mainly on all of the restrictions they are dealing with.

GRRM said it himself, he has none of the restrictions they do. If he wants an undead, wight figure, who rides a giant 600 pound elk that is surrounded by 500 crows, then he can put that in his medium pretty easily. If D&D want to put this in their medium, we are talking hours and hours of work that has to be done to do this. CGI, make up, trying to train animals, etc. That's why it's an adaptation, and it's why I understand and I am fine with it if they decide to not include a character here, or add a character instead because within these restrictions this was the best way to convey that part of the story,

These guys have to deal with props, clothing, fake weapons, cameras, lighting, production equipment. They have to deal with crew members doing their job right, cast members who need hours of prep time to look how they are supposed to. They have time restrictions per episode, editing deadlines, they have to add in CGI and the list goes on and on and on. I am extremely grateful of what these guys are doing. Considering everything that goes into making this show, I'm surprised they have able to adapt it as closly to the book as they have so far. If anyone expects anything more from these guys then I think it's a dilusional thought. Even though I may be a bit dissapointed that something in the show was different than something I read, I'll never start blaming these guys for it. I get the restrictions they are working with and realize how monumental this task is that they are trying to accomplish here, and chalk up that difference to this.

MY preferred way to see these stories is through the books. I'd love nothing more than to have the next 2 books come out way before the show catches up, and be able to see how this all plays out by reading it first. Couldn't ask for more than that really. I'll say this though, if the books aren't out in time, and D&D have to show us new material before we get to read it, you'd better believe my eyes will be glued to the screen. It certainly will not be their fault if their source material has to come more from their creativity and less from a book. They've said time and again they do not wish the show content to overtake the books, but it's not going to be up to them now is it? I have complete faith also, from everything I've seen so far, that these guys will do their best to tell their verision of this story while keeping as faithful to George's story as is possible, within the constraints of the medium they are working in.

Just thought this needed emphasizing. The story is so close to what we have in the books that we can still see exactly where it's going- that's very rare for an adaptation. Is Bran going to go to the tree? Yes. Is Jon still going to fight the Wildlings? Of course. I don't see how a small detour is of any consequence when the overall story is still there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But, why would GRRM care about the show at all at this point? He has books. They have the show. They brought themselves in a situation which looks like a lose-lose for them. Why does he need to help them? And it's not like they heeded his advices in the past. He can only control the damage that may fall on his medium (the books), but so far the show proved to be very damaging in that aspect. I mean, yeah, it was bringing millions of new readers once, but it's hardly bringing new readers any more. So, if GRRM wants to minimize the damage, perhaps the best thing is to 'allow' the show to be an entirely different beast than the books. D&D seemed to want it once, and now they may very well get the chance to have their wish fulfilled all the way. Hopefully, what they do know about the way ASOIAF ends is not enough for them to suddenly become faithful to the source material.

I would say GRRM cares very much about the show. I don't know the intricacies of the contract between GRRM and HBO, but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have skimped out without some form of royalty on merchandising or DVD sales or some such. People won't buy Stark t-shirts and Season x DVD collections if the show bites... and sales show they're buying in droves. I'm not saying he values the dollar over personal creativity, mind you. I'm saying he's human.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this is ignorance more than anything. When will people come to realize that this series is exactly what GRRM said it would be. He said he wrote a series that would be impossible to translate to screen, and even though D&D are doing an adaptation of ASOIAF, they are not translating it because it is indeed impossible. I think these guys have actually done an excellent job doing their best to try and translate as much as they can from George's work to the screen, but it is impossible for them be faithful to the novels in a lot of aspects based mainly on all of the restrictions they are dealing with.

GRRM said it himself, he has none of the restrictions they do. If he wants an undead, wight figure, who rides a giant 600 pound elk that is surrounded by 500 crows, then he can put that in his medium pretty easily. If D&D want to put this in their medium, we are talking hours and hours of work that has to be done to do this. CGI, make up, trying to train animals, etc. That's why it's an adaptation, and it's why I understand and I am fine with it if they decide to not include a character here, or add a character instead because within these restrictions this was the best way to convey that part of the story,

These guys have to deal with props, clothing, fake weapons, cameras, lighting, production equipment. They have to deal with crew members doing their job right, cast members who need hours of prep time to look how they are supposed to. They have time restrictions per episode, editing deadlines, they have to add in CGI and the list goes on and on and on. I am extremely grateful of what these guys are doing. Considering everything that goes into making this show, I'm surprised they have able to adapt it as closly to the book as they have so far. If anyone expects anything more from these guys then I think it's a dilusional thought. Even though I may be a bit dissapointed that something in the show was different than something I read, I'll never start blaming these guys for it. I get the restrictions they are working with and realize how monumental this task is that they are trying to accomplish here, and chalk up that difference to this.

MY preferred way to see these stories is through the books. I'd love nothing more than to have the next 2 books come out way before the show catches up, and be able to see how this all plays out by reading it first. Couldn't ask for more than that really. I'll say this though, if the books aren't out in time, and D&D have to show us new material before we get to read it, you'd better believe my eyes will be glued to the screen. It certainly will not be their fault if their source material has to come more from their creativity and less from a book. They've said time and again they do not wish the show content to overtake the books, but it's not going to be up to them now is it? I have complete faith also, from everything I've seen so far, that these guys will do their best to tell their verision of this story while keeping as faithful to George's story as is possible, within the constraints of the medium they are working in.

You do know D&D aren't alone in this project, right? There are actors, crew members, editors, cameramen, special effects team, and so on.

You also realize nobody's chastising them for the lack of elks and crows, right? You are aware dialogue is not dependent on money, but on creativity and writing talent?

Also, you do realize neither you nor me owe anything to D&D? They're very well compensated for their work, even without your gratitude and servility. If my gratitude would help them, yeah, I could spare some. But it's just not the case. Hence, as far as storytelling goes, I'm grateful only to the people that enriched my life with remarkable stories. D&D just don't fit the description.

And, last but not least, I'm eager to see fans' reaction to the show once it overpasses the published books. Let's see how talented D&D really are. Let them show to the world what they're truly capable of. That's going to be something to behold, no doubt about it. I'm willing to wait a little longer for AWOW and ADOS, just to see that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just thought this needed emphasizing. The story is so close to what we have in the books that we can still see exactly where it's going- that's very rare for an adaptation. Is Bran going to go to the tree? Yes. Is Jon still going to fight the Wildlings? Of course. I don't see how a small detour is of any consequence when the overall story is still there.

This is like saying Inglorious Basterds are true to the actual history, because Hitler did die in real life, and Nazis did lose the war. No, Game of Thrones is not faithful to the source material. It's much less faithful than any number of adaptations I saw. Coppola changed the setting, and the era, and the title even, but his Apocalypse Now is more faithful to Heart of Darkness than GoT is to ASOIAF.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll play devil's advocate, and hypothesize that they'll split the 2015 season into the same half-season approach that Walking Dead and now Mad Men are doing, perhaps covering ADWD and AFFC in 7 ep instalments. If WoW gets released next summer, they could ostensibly split that into two seasons as well, giving GRRM what, til 2017 or 2018 to finish the 7th book? Who knows. He is a remarkably slow writer. Where's that JK Rowling speed ethic?!


Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is like saying Inglorious Basterds are true to the actual history, because Hitler did die in real life, and Nazis did lose the war. No, Game of Thrones is not faithful to the source material. It's much less faithful than any number of adaptations I saw. Coppola changed the setting, and the era, and the title even, but his Apocalypse Now is more faithful to Heart of Darkness than GoT is to ASOIAF.

Can you believe how unfaithful the episode GRRM wrote for this season, the Purple Wedding was? I definitely do not remember Loras and Oberyn eyeing each other all sexily like that in ASoS. So utterly unfaithful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you believe how unfaithful the episode GRRM wrote for this season, the Purple Wedding was? I definitely do not remember Loras and Oberyn eyeing each other all sexily like that in ASoS. So utterly unfaithful.

And the fact GRRM wrote the episode is relevant... how exactly? The scene simply doesn't exist in the books. No matter who wrote it. Considering how many TV scenes aren't from the books, the show isn't too faithful, regardless of who wrote one or the other. It doesn't necessarily mean it's good or bad, but faithful it is not. And the fact GRRM's writing some scenes changes nothing in that sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Miodrag you sound bitter.



Tell us how you really feel.



Actually, tell us how you'll actually feel when they do surpass the books and not only does the series reach critical acclaim beyond what they already have, but solid and loud approval from the majority of the fan base? Because that IMO is what will happen. Unless GRRM decides to do a 180 and hates on the show because he wasn't fast enough to write the last books, I don't envision a decline whatsoever.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...