[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]

[Daske]

The Hound is killed by Brienne. Robb's wife is killed at the Red Wedding. Nobody knows Bran and Rickon are dead (actually, everybody seems to know they're alive). Xaro is dead in the vault. Irri was killed by Doreah who was stealing Dany's dragons. After killing the remaining rulers of Qhart, Dany was effectively the ruler of Qhart. Tyrion and Jaime are still best friends. Jaime and Cersei are still in love. Shae loved Tyrion, but eventually betrayed him and tried to kill him. Tyrion did kill Shae, but he still loves her. Jaime killed his cousin for no reason at all. Sansa has no problem telling who she is. Arya has no problem telling who she is. Jon and Bran miss each other barely at Craster's, because Bran made a decision not to contact his brother. Jojen is dead. And so on.

If these aren't major - or better: important - points in the story, then I guess the Reader's Digest or an internet summary is also a faithful adaptation. And let's not forget that, so far, D&D were "adapting" the published books, e.g. every book reader could easily recognize any deviation. Once they step on the still unpublished territory of TWOW and ADOS, I'm pretty sure the deviations are only going to increase.

Yet the Hound is still in the same situation dead or not, the Red wedding still happened with Robb and Cat dying, Arya lost Nymeria and is off to Braavos, Tyrion saved the city and was hurt in the battle, Renly was killed by his brother & Mel, Jaime lost his hand, The VIper lost the duel, Lysa killed her husband and died in the same way, Theon was tortured and lost his manhood, Stannis arrives at the Wall, Joffrey died by poisoning at his wedding, Danny had her Dracarys moment, the dragons are becoming unruly and so on. And so on. What you mention are some changes, sure, but almost all of the really big and important moments are still there. The ones you mention are second tier at best.

Given all they have is an outline of how it will finish up, they can hardly knowlingly deviate very much from it since it doesn't all exist yet - even GRRM won't yet know all the details. They will hit the important points that they know about no doubt like they have so far. The ones you mention are not very important in the big scheme of things. The final show and books may indeed end up being very different, but on past form they have keep very much on track plot points that most people care most about. If you think they have changed so much that spoilers won't matter then you will defintely be spoiled on some of the really big moments. And to be honest not many people care about the small plot points anyway, so they won't even be in the headlines and far easier to avoid.

[Grayven]

Also how do they want to reintroduce Jaquen ?

- the actor who played Jaqen might not be the same Jaqen. He could be a different faceless man wearing the same face because it's generic face #5 in their little face factory temple. Spooky eh?

:lmao:

Thank you for that moment of hilarity, from both me and my wife reading over my shoulder. Although, I have a feeling that the "sensei" aspect of real-Jaqen training Arya will be too attractive to the directors, and they'll go the standard Hollywood route. When they are reintroduced, we might get a quick CGI display of many faces, ending with a skull and worm.. (yay) then Arya asks him to use the one she's comfortable with.

I'm actually just glad to get the actor back. He owned entire episodes while appearing only for a few minutes.

[Miodrag]

Yet the Hound is still in the same situation dead or not, the Red wedding still happened with Robb and Cat dying, Arya lost Nymeria and is off to Braavos, Tyrion saved the city and was hurt in the battle, Renly was killed by his brother & Mel, Jaime lost his hand, The VIper lost the duel, Lysa killed her husband and died in the same way, Theon was tortured and lost his manhood, Stannis arrives at the Wall, Joffrey died by poisoning at his wedding, Danny had her Dracarys moment, the dragons are becoming unruly and so on. And so on. What you mention are some changes, sure, but almost all of the really big and important moments are still there. The ones you mention are second tier at best.

Given all they have is an outline of how it will finish up, they can hardly knowlingly deviate very much from it since it doesn't all exist yet - even GRRM won't yet know all the details. They will hit the important points that they know about no doubt like they have so far. The ones you mention are not very important in the big scheme of things. The final show and books may indeed end up being very different, but on past form they have keep very much on track plot points that most people care most about. If you think they have changed so much that spoilers won't matter then you will defintely be spoiled on some of the really big moments. And to be honest not many people care about the small plot points anyway, so they won't even be in the headlines and far easier to avoid.

Honestly, if I were thinking this way (about what is "a major plot pint" and what is "a second tier"), I'd give up on reading the books. Just saying.

[sj4iy]

:lmao:

Thank you for that moment of hilarity, from both me and my wife reading over my shoulder. Although, I have a feeling that the "sensei" aspect of real-Jaqen training Arya will be too attractive to the directors, and they'll go the standard Hollywood route. When they are reintroduced, we might get a quick CGI display of many faces, ending with a skull and worm.. (yay) then Arya asks him to use the one she's comfortable with.

I'm actually just glad to get the actor back. He owned entire episodes while appearing only for a few minutes.

I am, too. He was awesome. Even Honest Trailers said so XD

[FalseKnight]

Honestly, if I were thinking this way (about what is "a major plot pint" and what is "a second tier"), I'd give up on reading the books. Just saying.

I think some readers have Stockholm Syndrome. People have waited so long for the books that they now sympathize with the guy who holds them hostage. That's not to say that the details are insignificant, but many are minor plot points. Things like Jon's parentage are important although relatively minor plot points. Whether he's dead or not is a major plot point.

[Janicia]

Most major plot points that could happen for the next two books have probably been mentioned as possibilities in this forum. And there has been a ton of foreshadowing in the books that points toward the resolution of the story, like we assume that Dany and Aegon will try to destroy each other based on foreshadowing in the books. We assume that Myrcella and Tommen will die, and then Cersei will probably be killed by Jaime. These are major plot points that GRRM has been foreshadowing. When the show hits on future plot points, its like getting another prophecy that is confusing in how it applies to the story of the books and possibly misleading.

Whatever GRRM does, he wouldn't be introducing something totally alien to us when he resolves the story even in the absence of the TV show. The joy of reading the next two books is to see how he navigates that resolution, and how all the little pieces he's established work together, the joy of the journey, and the emotions he pulls into the resolution. The TV show can't spoil any of that.

[Colonel Green]

Honestly, if I were thinking this way (about what is "a major plot pint" and what is "a second tier"), I'd give up on reading the books. Just saying.

The point of the discussion being that if you were watching this series without reading the books, you would still be substantially spoiled on the books' outcomes, even if some of the details are different.

[protar]

I think some readers have Stockholm Syndrome. People have waited so long for the books that they now sympathize with the guy who holds them hostage. That's not to say that the details are insignificant, but many are minor plot points. Things like Jon's parentage are important although relatively minor plot points. Whether he's dead or not is a major plot point.

Jon's parentage is relatively minor? Unless Martin completely throws a spanner in the works that's in the running for the most important plot point in the entire series.

[jons nissa]

I sincerely hope that there are strict rules in place here to prevent any spoilers (providing the final seasons are actually anything like the books.).

how would we know if the final seasons are anything like the books if the books haven't been published? the only spoiler rule would be a forum for book readers and a forum for show watchers and a forum for people who've done both.

[FalseKnight]

Jon's parentage is relatively minor? Unless Martin completely throws a spanner in the works that's in the running for the most important plot point in the entire series.

To readers it's huge. I never said otherwise. I just don't think it will change much in terms of the overarching story. The lords of the Seven Kingdoms won't bend the knee to Jon just because some crannogman proclaims him the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Even if he produces documentary evidence, Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen. Though there might be some support for the Targaryens, they won't win the crown without force.

[protar]

To readers it's huge. I never said otherwise. I just don't think it will change much in terms of the overarching story. The lords of the Seven Kingdoms won't bend the knee to Jon just because some crannogman proclaims him the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Even if he produces documentary evidence, Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen. Though there might be some support for the Targaryens, they won't win the crown without force.

He won't get by purely on Howland (or whoever) revealing his heritage, but he won't get anywhere without that reveal. The reveal of his parentage will presumably be the catalyst for Jon to take charge and earn a position of leadership.

[sj4iy]

To readers it's huge. I never said otherwise. I just don't think it will change much in terms of the overarching story. The lords of the Seven Kingdoms won't bend the knee to Jon just because some crannogman proclaims him the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Even if he produces documentary evidence, Jon looks nothing like a Targaryen. Though there might be some support for the Targaryens, they won't win the crown without force.

I doubt he will win the crown by birthright alone...IF he becomes king at some point, it'll be because he saved the realm from the White Walkers.

[Janicia]

He won't get by purely on Howland (or whoever) revealing his heritage, but he won't get anywhere without that reveal. The reveal of his parentage will presumably be the catalyst for Jon to take charge and earn a position of leadership.

Jon already managed to take charge and earn a position of leadership once as Ned Stark's bastard. If he survives his stabbing as a human, builds on what he learned as lord commander, and rallies the realm against the others, he'll be continuing to take charge and earn positions of leadership. His heritage is more important as a plot point if his blood has targaryan magical properties. His heritage is entirely irrelevant if he's dead.

[protar]

Jon already managed to take charge and earn a position of leadership once as Ned Stark's bastard. If he survives his stabbing as a human, builds on what he learned as lord commander, and rallies the realm against the others, he'll be continuing to take charge and earn positions of leadership. His heritage is more important as a plot point if his blood has targaryan magical properties. His heritage is entirely irrelevant if he's dead.

Yes, he's already proven himself as a leader. But no one is going to follow him as King if they think he's just a bastard from the Night's Watch.

[Miodrag]

I think some readers have Stockholm Syndrome. People have waited so long for the books that they now sympathize with the guy who holds them hostage. That's not to say that the details are insignificant, but many are minor plot points. Things like Jon's parentage are important although relatively minor plot points. Whether he's dead or not is a major plot point.

This has to be the most ridiculous usage of the term Stockholm Syndrome I've ever seen. But even more hilarious is the fact that people so servile to HBO that they defend each and every stupidity of the show as if their lives depend on it, continually accuse every show-complainer of some unhealthy obsession with the books.

[Janicia]

Yes, he's already proven himself as a leader. But no one is going to follow him as King if they think he's just a bastard from the Night's Watch.

Stannis is the rightful king, but people have been conveniently ignoring that in favor of bastards and his younger brother because it suits them, and because there is no proof regarding the bastard claims. That stuff is going to start to seem a lot less important when the Others invade and the civil war has been going on longer. Robb already legitimized Jon as his heir, anyway, so the people that find it convenient may decide that the competent heir of a great and noble house would be an excellent king. And Jon probably won't become king over the 7 kingdoms anyway.

The biggest barrier to Jon becoming king is that he seems to be dead.

[sj4iy]

The biggest barrier to Jon becoming king is that he seems to be dead.

At this rate, the only people left to rule and be ruled will be dead people XD

[ChildoftheTropicalForest]

_Honestly,

_{Whatever makes it to the bookshelves or TV screen first will be read/viewed as such and in that order. I do hope however, that A Dream of Spring preceeds season 7 because George will do a much better job but I won't avoid either medium in order to remain "unspoiled". While reading I wanted spoilers because I just have to know what happens next. If the show overtakes, I will still finish off with the books no matter how long I have to wait.}

[jons nissa]

The biggest barrier to Jon becoming king is that he seems to be dead.

awww, he ain't dead. he's just resting. besides, i think the biggest barrier to jon becoming king will be jon. he'll probably be the only contender not interested in getting the throne. so, of course, he'll get it.

mayhaps.

[Madmaxepic]

Their "adaptation" of these two books will be some Jon stuff, Cersei's whole arc, Dany in Meereen and tons of Dorne. I'd be very, very surprised if Greyjoys make it in. They will be done with these two books by the end of the season, hell there will be even invented stuff like those Jaime rumors.

They can't exclude the Greyjoys, they've already set it up in the earlier seasons, with Theon and 'Yara' (worst name change ever), and Balon, and whatnot.