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[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]


Stubby

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Is there anybody that does not plan on watching the show starting this season because of spoilers? So many have claimed that in the past but now that the time has finally come when the show will begin seriously pushing into the unpublished material, I am curious to find out whether it was all a lot of posturing.

As a result of the inevitable spoilers that will be shown in season 5, I will definitely NOT stop watching. 'Bout time. :drool:

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I am admittedly pretty excited about the Sansa scenes this season. In all fairness, it has been a decade since her plot has progressed. I will have, amazingly, gone through my entire twenties without Martin delivering the next Sansa chapter. It really does astound sometimes when you stop and consider how slow he has been.


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A lot of the side stories will either being removed or condensed in order to move along the main characters. Would it be nice to have The Iron Islands and Aegon? Absolutely! It would also confuse fans of the show only because there are too many plots. And it would slow down the pacing of the show just like it did with the books.

I don't understand this reasoning. Lost started with a main cast of about a dozen different characters, each with their own backstories and plot lines, yet still introduced new characters and new plot lines every season, and somehow audiences managed to keep up. I don't think Game of Thrones would match Lost's number of characters even if they added Aegon, the Ironborn, the Northern houses, and so on.

It's the limited amount of time they have to work with that's the problem. Audiences can handle a lot of different characters, but the plot lines would suffer and be underdeveloped if they were stretched too thin to accommodate too many.

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Pretty much. If there is any solace, it's that despite D+D's claims that they're sticking to the ending of the books, they are apparently cutting out large swathes of TWOW. The Aegon plotline, and by extension Arianne, is gone. And it seems so is the Ironborn plot. Other plotlines like Oldtown and such may be cut as well. Clearly there will be large differences between book and show. D+D's idea of a faithful ending may not match yours or mine.

At this point they must be viewed as entirely separate entities. And it's incredibly sad that such a promising adaptation was turned into fan fiction, but it comes with the silver lining that even if the future seasons will spoil the books, there will also be so many things not from the books that much of the surprise will be preserved.

Ok I'm laughing. In no way is the show fan fiction. It's the real deal, its deal, it's just not he same as the books. Asha is cool, but Aeron, Victarion? Who cares! The kingsmoot was at least interesting, but taking of huge Shield Islands? I got more excited from Margaery telling Cersei that the Shield Islands were attacked. It's less fan fiction then this websites beloved Mush heh.

It's clear Martin has no idea were he is going, lest we would have avoided the Meerenese Knot. Likewise, he created the world to large, and felt the need to fill it. So while the story can reasonably shift to Dorne and the Iron Islands, it doesn't need Arianne, and Areo and Arys and Aeron, Victarion and Asha to do it. Arianne and Asha can more the suffice to tell the same story.

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I don't understand this reasoning. Lost started with a main cast of about a dozen different characters, each with their own backstories and plot lines, yet still introduced new characters and new plot lines every season, and somehow audiences managed to keep up. I don't think Game of Thrones would match Lost's number of characters even if they added Aegon, the Ironborn, the Northern houses, and so on.

It's the limited amount of time they have to work with that's the problem. Audiences can handle a lot of different characters, but the plot lines would suffer and be underdeveloped if they were stretched too thin to accommodate too many.

It's not the same thing at all. TV has a limited amount of time to deliver that plot, and Martin has over 30 POV characters in the books as of this point- 24 of which are main/minor characters. Could you imagine what a 10 hour season would look like following that many plotlines? This story already covers more characters than Lost did by far...nearly doubling that just for the sake of being like the books is not feasible at all.

I watched 2 seasons of the show before I read the books. I had a difficult time keeping up with who was whom, except for a very few main characters. It had nothing at all to do with my intelligence or ability to keep up- it's simply a lot of information to take within a very short amount of time. When I read, I have the time and ability to follow everything at my own pace, and I don't have to wait a week in between chapters.

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I don't understand this reasoning. Lost started with a main cast of about a dozen different characters, each with their own backstories and plot lines, yet still introduced new characters and new plot lines every season, and somehow audiences managed to keep up. I don't think Game of Thrones would match Lost's number of characters even if they added Aegon, the Ironborn, the Northern houses, and so on.

It's the limited amount of time they have to work with that's the problem. Audiences can handle a lot of different characters, but the plot lines would suffer and be underdeveloped if they were stretched too thin to accommodate too many.

I just did a little research. LOST had 121 episodes. According to IMDB, they had 71 characters that had 5 episodes or more.

So far Game of Thrones has had 40 episodes, but I think some of the characters have been listed for season 5 episodes. Still 50 episodes maximum. And already they have had 101 characters with 5 episodes or more.

If they added the Iron Islands, Aegon, and more of the characters from Dorne, we would be looking at Game of Thrones doubling the number of characters that LOST had.

It just isn't possible.

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I am admittedly pretty excited about the Sansa scenes this season. In all fairness, it has been a decade since her plot has progressed. I will have, amazingly, gone through my entire twenties without Martin delivering the next Sansa chapter. It really does astound sometimes when you stop and consider how slow he has been.

Technically it won't be a full decade of no Sansa Stark chapters until October of 2015. Still kind of sad that is has taken this long.

Even if I loved the books more, at some point I would just want closure to the story.

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Is there anybody that does not plan on watching the show starting this season because of spoilers? So many have claimed that in the past but now that the time has finally come when the show will begin seriously pushing into the unpublished material, I am curious to find out whether it was all a lot of posturing.

I'll watch the show. I don't really understand why some people don't want to. Is it just that they don't like the show and won't watch it at all, or is it that they like to read the books before watching on-screen adaptations of them? Or something else?

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Is there anybody that does not plan on watching the show starting this season because of spoilers? So many have claimed that in the past but now that the time has finally come when the show will begin seriously pushing into the unpublished material, I am curious to find out whether it was all a lot of posturing.

I won't be watching it. I actually stopped watching after S2, as amazing as I think GoT is as a TV show. I am more than able to wait 10+ years for the book ending of the series without watching the show. Which is what I've decided to do, after a lot of thinking. There are thousands of other books, games, movies, etc. to enjoy until then. I am fully aware that avoiding spoilers entirely will be near impossible, but so be it. In my own weird way, in the worst case scenario, I would much prefer reading the last two books knowing two or three major details about their ending rather than having first experienced the ending through watching the show.

Most people on these forums can have the show and books as completely separate entities and not have one lessen their enjoyment of the other. Alas, I am not one of these people, for better or for worse. ASoIaF has without a doubt brought me more enjoyment than any other series of books, which is why I am so committed to reading before watching. It is a very personal choice and not one I would try to force on anyone else. Posturing however, it is not, whether or not anyone believes I can wait that long ^_^

And with that said, this is my last time visiting this site for a long, long time. See you all in spring (yes, that spring).

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I won't be watching it. I actually stopped watching after S2, as amazing as I think GoT is as a TV show. I am more than able to wait 10+ years for the book ending of the series without watching the show. Which is what I've decided to do, after a lot of thinking. There are thousands of other books, games, movies, etc. to enjoy until then. I am fully aware that avoiding spoilers entirely will be near impossible, but so be it. In my own weird way, in the worst case scenario, I would much prefer reading the last two books knowing two or three major details about their ending rather than having first experienced the ending through watching the show.

Most people on these forums can have the show and books as completely separate entities and not have one lessen their enjoyment of the other. Alas, I am not one of these people, for better or for worse. ASoIaF has without a doubt brought me more enjoyment than any other series of books, which is why I am so committed to reading before watching. It is a very personal choice and not one I would try to force on anyone else. Posturing however, it is not, whether or not anyone believes I can wait that long ^_^

And with that said, this is my last time visiting this site for a long, long time. See you all in spring (yes, that spring).

I suppose it makes sense in a way that if you really like the books then you would want to hear the story through them. Out of curiousity, are you planning on watching the show after you've read all of the books?

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I won't be watching it. ... It is a very personal choice and not one I would try to force on anyone else. Posturing however, it is not, whether or not anyone believes I can wait that long ^_^

And with that said, this is my last time visiting this site for a long, long time. See you all in spring (yes, that spring).

Good post. I feel completely different from you, but your point here is very well expressed and helps me understand some of those who don't want to watch the show.

Of course, you're probably not going to see this response until 2025 or so!

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I won't be watching it. I actually stopped watching after S2, as amazing as I think GoT is as a TV show. I am more than able to wait 10+ years for the book ending of the series without watching the show. Which is what I've decided to do, after a lot of thinking. There are thousands of other books, games, movies, etc. to enjoy until then. I am fully aware that avoiding spoilers entirely will be near impossible, but so be it. In my own weird way, in the worst case scenario, I would much prefer reading the last two books knowing two or three major details about their ending rather than having first experienced the ending through watching the show.

Most people on these forums can have the show and books as completely separate entities and not have one lessen their enjoyment of the other. Alas, I am not one of these people, for better or for worse. ASoIaF has without a doubt brought me more enjoyment than any other series of books, which is why I am so committed to reading before watching. It is a very personal choice and not one I would try to force on anyone else. Posturing however, it is not, whether or not anyone believes I can wait that long ^_^

And with that said, this is my last time visiting this site for a long, long time. See you all in spring (yes, that spring).

What if he never finishes it? Oh, that would be sad for you to wait so long for no reason.

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I started reading the books somewhere between Swords & Feast & I haven't watched the show, outside of maybe the 1st episode, out of concern that this would happen. I remember those 1st 3 books so engrossed me that I immediately reread them all immediately after I finished Swords. I think that the sense of not knowing what will happen next is worth not watching the show until after the books are finished. I've begun to rethink that position based on the fact that I'll most likely end up getting spoiled after the show airs material not yet in the books, but I'll wait until that happens.



Side note: does anyone else feel it's an utter travesty that as book readers 1st this is even a concern? I can't think of another instance where a fan base is potentially going to get a story spoiled by another medium. I know GRRM is God & it isn't wise to say anything negative about him, but he should've absolutely made it a priority to finish the books as soon as he signed the deal w/ HBO. I know he's got a life & does things in a certain way, but the truckload of $ from HBO should've been motivation enough to make some sacrifices (i.e. less travelling or side projects) to ensure that not only did his partners at HBO always have books to base the show upon, but that his longtime fans weren't put into this position.


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Eh, I think a good majority of people who say they won't watch it at all are actually posturing. Some people aren't, of course, but I think many will continue to watch it.

Side note: does anyone else feel it's an utter travesty that as book readers 1st this is even a concern?

Nope. A 'travesty' indicates something horrible has happened. This does not qualify. Martin was paid (and paid handsomely, at that), and the book fans can simply stop watching the show and stop going to forums and stuff on the internet if they want to remain unspoiled. It's hard to feel sorry for anyone who sells the rights of their book series and then doesn't finish the books or people who won't get the ending of a story through the medium they prefer.

And I absolutely agree that GRRM is not god ;)

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Eh, I think a good majority of people who say they won't watch it at all are actually posturing. Some people aren't, of course, but I think many will continue to watch it.

Nope. A 'travesty' indicates something horrible has happened. This does not qualify. Martin was paid (and paid handsomely, at that), and the book fans can simply stop watching the show and stop going to forums and stuff on the internet if they want to remain unspoiled. It's hard to feel sorry for anyone who sells the rights of their book series and then doesn't finish the books or people who won't get the ending of a story through the medium they prefer.

And I absolutely agree that GRRM is not god ;)

Maybe travesty was harsh, but as someone who devoted what? over a decade to the series, it seems like a bit of a slap in the face to have a show reveal the ending before I can read it. As I said, I don't watch the show & will do my best to avoid spoilers, but its become very popular & it may be unavoidable. I guess I'm just frustrated that the series becoming a television show wasn't enough cncouragement to actually finish the books in a timely manner.

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I guess I'm just frustrated that the series becoming a television show wasn't enough cncouragement to actually finish the books in a timely manner.

Seems to me that the TV show has had the opposite effect on Martin: he's under more pressure than ever and as we all know, you can easily underperform when under enough pressure. :cool4:

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Seems to me that the TV show has had the opposite effect on Martin: he's under more pressure than ever and as we all know, you can easily underperform when under enough pressure. :cool4:

I'd agree with this. I also think success on this scale has bred opportunities that weren't necessarily afforded before, & cosequently what should've been most important was relegated to an afterthought. I almost wish at this point I wouldn't have started reading these books until after they were all completed. Although they did open my eyes to fantasy as a genre after a very long layoff & I've found some other authers that I enjoy as well, so I can't be overly salty.

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I wouldn't call it fan fiction. I would call it being realistic by D&D. Season 5 will have The Wall, Winterfell, The Vale, King's Landing, Dorne, Braavos, & Meereen. There is a chance we might get some of Pentos as well. They already pushed some activity from beyond the wall with Bran until season 6.

There is no way they can also add in all of the stuff from The Iron Islands, Aegon, Riverrun, and potentially other locations.

What we will get is the story arcs of the main characters the story started with. A lot of the side stories will either being removed or condensed in order to move along the main characters. Would it be nice to have The Iron Islands and Aegon? Absolutely! It would also confuse fans of the show only because there are too many plots. And it would slow down the pacing of the show just like it did with the books.

And don't get your hopes up about the books being finished. If GRRM was already working slow when he had the show on his tail, imagine his pace and motivation once the main plot lines are spoiled.

I honestly think that with a little more effort, the show could have covered all the plot lines in the book. There's simply been so many filler scenes throughout season's 2, 3 and 4 that the cutting of huge, important plot lines cannot really be justified. And I'm also dubious as to how faithfully the main plot lines can be adapted a.) without large portions of DWD/TWOW. and b.) with D+D constantly changing them as well.

I really think that cutting these plots has less to do with time, and more to do with a lack of confidence on D+D's part. They don't want the plot to be too confusing for viewers, it's pandering to the lowest common denominator. If they where actually interested in as faithful an adaptation as possible, they could have taken advantage of the reduction, and consolidation of plot lines in S4, to introduce some more AFFC/ADWD material then. Which they did to some extent, but could have done much more, i.e with the Ironborn.

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I don't understand this reasoning. Lost started with a main cast of about a dozen different characters, each with their own backstories and plot lines, yet still introduced new characters and new plot lines every season, and somehow audiences managed to keep up.

You can't compare the two. There were about 15 main characters in each Lost season (every season they'd kill a few and add a few), whereas there are about 25 main characters in each GoT season (credited in the main cast).

Besides, in Lost each character didn't have a different plotline: most (or virtually all) of them were together, sharing the plot (each season had 2 or 3 major plotlines). That allowed them to focus each episode on a character's personal story (which means each episode worked as an "independent" episode) while still keeping up with the main storylines of the season.

In GoT there are about 8 totally different storylines, totally separated from one another, which have absolutelly no effect on the rest. That has been(and still is) the biggest problem of the show. With the addition of several tangential storylines in Feast/Dance (without resolving all the previous storylines first) would have killed the show, and I think it's wise to eliminate the unnecessary ones and merge some of them (jaime-Dorne) in order to make the show coherent.

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