[BOOK SPOILERS] Watching the show if it overpasses the books [Part 2]

[The One And Only]

Critics praise the show because it strays from the books? No they don't. If anything the more faithful scenes garner more critical acclaim. And if you look at the Unsullied for example, a subset of show watchers, most of their complaints are targeted at things which - unbeknownst to them - where not in the books.

Now you are just making things up. People loved Robb Stark in the show and he was a side character in the books.

People loved Tywim/Arya and it wasn't in the books.

Varys & Littlefinger are more fleshed out in the show and they have very memorable scenes.

[The One And Only]

I can go on.....

Cercei & Robert from Season 1 was a wonderful scene.

Osha is improved from the books. So is Margaery Tyrell.

Jamie Lannister & Tywin Lannister scene with the Deer in Season 1 was great.

[Mark Antony]

Yeah I don't think anyone is denying they have made a handful of decent changes. Though I don't agree with all the ones you posted

They have also made shitty ones. For example my unsullied brother and friends all though the Missendei/ Grey Worm shit last season was super cringeworthy. I just said it wasn't in the books :lol:

[protar]

Well then... we have arrived at an interesting hypothesis to verify, haven't we?

Let's see how this season does in the ratings - not on this site, where people are highly biased, but in general. Let's also see how people discuss the Sansa plot, which we know very little about, and which, therefore, may have 0-100% TWOW content.

If you're correct, the median of the E1-E8 episode ratings for this season should be statistically significantly lower with respect to the median for the previous seasons. (Let's take out E9-E10 of the equation, given that we know that this'll be almost 100% book material.) And people should be nearly unanimous in deciding which Sansa scenes are 'pure GRRM' or 'pure show'. Correct? We could establish a poll for each single scene.

Finally, we could analyse post-episode Twitter buzz on #got with respect to sentiment. If you're correct, sentiment should drop, right? Although f that, I'm not doing that.

It wouldn't be an entirely accurate measure - simply because of the hype machine. The masses will continue to love it as it appeals more to the lowest common denominator. It won't surprise me if critics are less fawning of it though.

[The One And Only]

Yeah I don't think anyone is denying they have made a handful of decent changes. Though I don't agree with all the ones you posted

They have also made shitty ones. For example my unsullied brother and friends all though the Missendei/ Grey Worm shit last season was super cringeworthy. I just said it wasn't in the books :lol:

And GRRM has made some shiity choices too. Using the most cliche idea in fantasy.... Which is bring people back from the dead completely cheapens the deaths of the series.

Overall, D&D not only write great original content for the show, they also adapt the books wonderfully.

[Mark Antony]

And GRRM has made some shiity choices too. Using the most cliche idea in fantasy.... Which is bring people back from the dead completely cheapens the deaths of the series.

Overall, D&D not only write great original content for the show, they also adapt the books wonderfully.

That's great you think that I disagree completely though

[The One And Only]

It wouldn't be an entirely accurate measure - simply because of the hype machine. The masses will continue to love it as it appeals more to the lowest common denominator. It won't surprise me if critics are less fawning of it though.

This show appeals to the lowest common denominator?

Okay, now you are officially just trolling.

Of everything on television today, GoT appeals to the more intellectual fanbase compared to any show.

[Mark Antony]

Of everything on television today, GoT appeals to the more intellectual fanbase compared to any show.

What a bizarre statement

[The One And Only]

What a bizarre statement

How is it bizarre?

[ADanceWithCats]

It wouldn't be an entirely accurate measure - simply because of the hype machine. The masses will continue to love it as it appeals more to the lowest common denominator. It won't surprise me if critics are less fawning of it though.

Again with the elitism. Stop it.

Unless, of course, you can somehow prove that the changes made make the show 'appeal more to the lowest common denominator'. I'd love it if you started by defining what said 'lowest common denominator' is.

Really, I'm really curious about that. What's the metric here?

[protar]

Again with the elitism. Stop it.

Unless, of course, you can somehow prove that the changes made make the show 'appeal more to the lowest common denominator'. I'd love it if you started by defining what said 'lowest common denominator' is.

Really, I'm really curious about that. What's the metric here?

It's a pretty well known turn of phrase. It's a more polite way of saying the audience members who aren't smart. Stuff like changing Asha to Yara, that's done for them. That's just one small example. One of the big ways in which the show is dumbed down is the removal of moral ambiguity. It's still there, to an extent - it would be night impossible to adapt ASOIAF and remove it completely. But just look at Tyrion for example, a complete White Knight on the show. They even tried to put murdering Shae in a sympathetic light. Which is a ridiculous move given the proven appeal of anti-heroes like Walter White, Frank Underwood etc. Then there's the removal of strategy, replaced by nonsensical tactics, like Robb's plan to besiege Casterly Rock. And their constant concern with not overloading the audience with characters results in some strange things like Shireen and Selyse popping up out of nowhere. Then there's the introduction of more conventional romances, the "badassification" of female characters, the gratuitous sex and nudity etc.

[The One And Only]

It's a pretty well known turn of phrase. It's a more polite way of saying the audience members who aren't smart. Stuff like changing Asha to Yara, that's done for them. That's just one small example. One of the big ways in which the show is dumbed down is the removal of moral ambiguity. It's still there, to an extent - it would be night impossible to adapt ASOIAF and remove it completely. But just look at Tyrion for example, a complete White Knight on the show. They even tried to put murdering Shae in a sympathetic light. Which is a ridiculous move given the proven appeal of anti-heroes like Walter White, Frank Underwood etc. Then there's the removal of strategy, replaced by nonsensical tactics, like Robb's plan to besiege Casterly Rock. And their constant concern with not overloading the audience with characters results in some strange things like Shireen and Selyse popping up out of nowhere. Then there's the introduction of more conventional romances, the "badassification" of female characters, the gratuitous sex and nudity etc.

Tyrion is a white knight on the show? He is shown as a drunk.

Changing a name means dumbing down? Not really. GRRM is just bad at naming characters and their two names sound way too much alike. On the page it doesn't matter because they look different. In spoken word, they sound too close.

You should probably just stop watching the show and find an activity you enjoy more.

And you ignored my previous comments a few posts ago about how the 5th book wasn't even out yet when they talked to GRRM.

[protar]

Tyrion is a white knight on the show? He is shown as a drunk.

Changing a name means dumbing down? Not really. GRRM is just bad at naming characters and their two names sound way too much alike. On the page it doesn't matter because they look different. In spoken word, they sound too close.

You should probably just stop watching the show and find an activity you enjoy more.

And you ignored my previous comments a few posts ago about how the 5th book wasn't even out yet when they talked to GRRM.

If the worst you can say about show Tyrion is that he's drunk, then that proves my point. Compared to the books, and perhaps more importantly from the perspective of television, compared to other televisual anti-heroes, he's a saint.

Changing names is absolutely a sign of dumbing down. They're two unrelated characters, and context would make it clear who was being referred to when. And Martin's naming system is great.

I'm fairly sure that D+D got to read ADWD prior to it's release after their deal went through. And at the very least, they had read AFFC which is often seen as the most plodding of the books.

And I genuinely enjoy the show as a bit of shallow entertainment. It just frustrates me that it isn't the master piece, and the faithful adaptation, that it should have been.

[ADanceWithCats]

It's a pretty well known turn of phrase. It's a more polite way of saying the audience members who aren't smart.

Argh, no offence, but you're so intellectually vacuous that I in all honesty can't continue this conversation... You would prefer Tyrion to be like a ton of other antihero characters from popular series, and you would consider it a mark of discernment? And quality? What in the everloving fuck? How is not an anti-hero any less or more a trope at this point as a casual hero? Are you one of those people who somehow consider the books high fiction? All those questions...

Honestly - no. I'm out of here. Once again, have fun hatewatching. I wish you well in that.

[Mark Antony]

Think he would just prefer Tyrion wasn't a saint and more like his book counterpart who is a morally complex and imo much more fascinating character.

And you seem way more upset at his opinion than I bet Protar is "hatewatching"

[protar]

Argh, no offence, but you're so intellectually vacuous that I in all honesty can't continue this conversation... You would prefer Tyrion to be like a ton of other antihero characters from popular series, and you would consider it a mark of discernment? And quality? What in the everloving fuck? How is not an anti-hero any less or more a trope at this point as a casual hero? Are you one of those people who somehow consider the books high fiction? All those questions...

Honestly - no. I'm out of here. Once again, have fun hatewatching. I wish you well in that.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. I'll take you through it step by step. Tyrion is an anti-hero in the books. He isn't (or at least is not nearly as much) in the show. As one characterisation does not take more time to write than an other, this must be because D+D felt for whatever reason that Tyrion being an anti-hero wouldn't work. One such reason, may be that they feared audiences would not sympathise with him if he were too morally ambiguous. And yet other TV shows have proven this isn't the case. Audiences love anti-heroes. So why change the story?

[Jack Bauer 24]

This show appeals to the lowest common denominator?

Okay, now you are officially just trolling.

Of everything on television today, GoT appeals to the more intellectual fanbase compared to any show.

This.

[Dany4eva]

This Protar is obviously a troll guys :drunk: . Just stop replying to it

[Steelborn]

This Protar is obviously a troll guys :drunk: . Just stop replying to it

I don't think he is. He just keeps stating his opinion about the show which I assume is disappointing him. Not everybody who disagrees with you and have complete opposite view is automatically a troll.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

This is the show apologists equivalent of saying "the lord works in mysterious ways." There's this absurd mind set that because D+D know more than us, that it makes them infallible. So sure, all fan proposals and predictions need to be taken with a grain of salt. But to dismiss them entirely on the grounds of "D+D are perfect they know what to do la la la" is a very naive, narrow minded, and uncritical way of thinking. Little frustrates me more than blind acceptance of someone just because they are a so called expert.

For example all of those locations I list are locations that are currently being used in the show. So your argument that somehow they wouldn't be able to afford them is completely nonsensical. And the show is casting new characters anyway. The Sandsnakes are at the moment far more extraneous than Arianne is for example. Casting her and just one Sandsnake for example would actually save money. And besides which, the show makes so much money that there is little beyond it's reach. The show's budget expands by millions every year and still seems sustainable.

Show apologists? Bwahaha ok the show has faults, but things that are changed from the books aren't those. Book purists are sorta delusional in that regard.

Aegons gunna die Victarion is too, and Quentyn already has. Aegon is just cheap, an attempt at making another Targ (but no he's a Blackfyreeee) while Victarion is a joke and well Quentyn achieves little. Literally anyone in Meereen could release the dragons, and since Arianne doesn't exist we don't need her "brother before me" thing. As long as they put emphasis on Dorne having equal inheritance, then that's all good.