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R + L = Lightbringer -- Updated with Part II

Schmendrick

By Schmendrick,
in General (ASoIaF)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Mithras Council Member

Mithras

Posted
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“Brienne of Tarth,” Jaime sighed. “I have a gift for you.” He reached under the Commander’s chair and brought it out, wrapped in folds of crimson velvet.



A warrior (Jaime) gives the Oathkeeper to a maiden (Brienne). The sword is wrapped in folds of crimson velvet. Keeping in mind that the sword is a metaphor for penis, it is not hard to imagine what the folded crimson velvet symbolizes.



This is another reason why I think Oathkeeper is a special sword and it will find its way to Jon.


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Frey family reunion Council Member

Frey family reunion

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“Brienne of Tarth,” Jaime sighed. “I have a gift for you.” He reached under the Commander’s chair and brought it out, wrapped in folds of crimson velvet.

A warrior (Jaime) gives the Oathkeeper to a maiden (Brienne). The sword is wrapped in folds of crimson velvet. Keeping in mind that the sword is a metaphor for penis, it is not hard to imagine what the folded crimson velvet symbolizes.

This is another reason why I think Oathkeeper is a special sword and it will find its way to Jon.

I tend to think of Oath Keeper (and Widow's Wail) as more of a metaphor for Jon as opposed to a sword he will weild. I still think we'll have two Jons in the next book. Oathkeeper Jon, the part of Jon that wargs into Ghost before his "death". And Widow's Wail Jon, the part of Jon that stays with his body which is then in turn resurected (probably by Mel) into a being not dissimilar to Lady Stoneheart. The "stick them with the pointy end" Jon.

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LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse Council Member

LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse

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While reading this theory, i immediately recalled, Angels and Demons, Dan Brown.


How the nun described the encounter with the angel of the sculpture of "Ecstasy of Saint Teresa”, which was obviously sexual and not spiritual (or both I guess)



I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecstasy_of_Saint_Teresa


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J. Stargaryen Council Member

J. Stargaryen

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Reading through my PMs with Schmendrick, I came across something that I don't think ever got mentioned, even though it was sort of interesting.



It is said that her [Nissa Nissa] cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel.
- ACoK, Davos I (forging of LB).


Strength and courage did not avail much against foemen who would not fall because they were already dead; even arms and armor offered small protection.
AGoT, - Jon VIII (Jon thinking about Othor's attack on Mormont).


Assuming that Schmendrick's theory is correct, this fits really well, imo. The strength and courage of NN (Lyanna Stark) that went into the forging of LB weren't enough to kill a wight. I'm sure we all remember how Jon killed Other. With fire. :)


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Kingmonkey Council Member

Kingmonkey

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“The great cog Saduleon is berthed at the end of the quay, and the galleys Summer Sun and Joso’s Prank are anchored beyond the breakwater.”

(snip)

Dany renamed the three ships sent by Illyrio to bring her back to Pentos. The great cog Saduleon became Balerion.

(snip)

So, how did Dany’s soul went into Drogon? I think we already saw it. Saduleon is an anagram for Daen(erys') soul.

Old post, but not quite necro yet, so a quick point I want to make here. If GRRM intended that anagram, we've got to ask ourselves why Joso's prank is an anagram for Jon's so krap. Or is that Jon pork-ass, or Jon's a spork? Whichever way, doesn't bode well for the lad Snow.

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Ellfoy Noble

Ellfoy

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Reading through my PMs with Schmendrick, I came across something that I don't think ever got mentioned, even though it was sort of interesting.

- ACoK, Davos I (forging of LB).

AGoT, - Jon VIII (Jon thinking about Othor's attack on Mormont).

Assuming that Schmendrick's theory is correct, this fits really well, imo. The strength and courage of NN (Lyanna Stark) that went into the forging of LB weren't enough to kill a wight. I'm sure we all remember how Jon killed Other. With fire. :)

Nice ! The more I think about this theory, the more I see clues everywhere. I'm going a little crasy.

Great theory, anxiousley waiting for part 3. Wonder when it's coming. Been waiting for a while now... Hope it comes soon.

Welcome to the forum !

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  • 1 month later...
Isobel Harper Council Member

Isobel Harper

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I don't think you posted this originally, but I wanted to give my own ideas of the naming. Daenerys gave the dragons names that were very similar to loved ones she had recently lost. Drogo=Drogon, Viserion=Viserys, Rhaegal=Rhaego. I believe Daenerys also states that these are names of old Valyrian gods. I forget the exact passage, but I do recall it being in the ACOK (the 2nd book).

An very interesting theory none the less. If Jon were to pair up with Viserion, the white dragon, it would parellel with his white direwolf, Ghost. I just disagree with Jon's "real" name being Viserys.

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Mithras Council Member

Mithras

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Tauroctony (the bull-slaying scene) is the most important element of Mithraism. Every mithraeum had at least one depiction of this scene. In addition to Mithras and the bull, there are some ancillary elements present in the scene such as a scorpion, a serpent, a canine etc.



The signs of the twelve zodiacal constellations (Cancer, Leo, Virgo, Libra, Scorpius, Sagittarius, Capricorn, Aquarius, Pisces, Aries, Taurus, Gemini) and allusions to seven "planets" (which in Greco-Roman thought include Sun and Moon) are common in the tauroctony reliefs and frescoes. The tauroctony reliefs (but not the statuary) almost always include busts of Sol and Luna, i.e. respectively the god of the Sun and the goddess of the Moon, which appear in respectively the left and right top corners of the scene.



In the 70s, there has been a popular interpretation of tauroctony scene in terms of astrology. Although there is no consensus on the issue, for me, it is clear that the cult has something to do with the astronomical phenomena (constellations, planets) as with many of the old religions.



Considering this in mind, check this interview of Ran about TWOIAF.



15. What was the most difficult thing to cut from the book?



I won't say it was cut, per se, but very early on one of the planned illustrations would have been a maester's star chart, showing the constellations as they exist in the setting, marking out the "twelve houses of heaven" and so on, as the maesters are quite interested in mapping the sky as part of their efforts to determine the change of the seasons and such. It felt like a really neat, if geeky, touch. Alas, it was something that never gelled and was dropped.



And these are the constellations in ASOIAF:




Ice Dragon is a constellation whose blue eye points the North pole and the tail points the South. Sword of the Morning is a constellation in the South.



I think it is clear that George has something to do with astronomy in the story.


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  • 3 weeks later...
Avlonnic Noble

Avlonnic

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Simply remarkable. This OP's contribution and the resultant comments are part and parcel of what sets these books, these forums, and these readers apart from anything I have ever encountered. I feel humbled after reading this entire thread. The aphorism "a rising tide lifts all boats" comes to mind: the quality of this discourse has helped to elevate all of us. Many thanks for stretching my brain.


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Avlonnic Noble

Avlonnic

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He hasn't signed on in over six months. :(

Schmendrick - if you are out there, let us know if we can help you with Part III. If you want to share your notes and general thoughts/direction, there are some like-minded people in the community who would likely volunteer to help pull info together, help with research, etc. We are thinking of you and hope you are well! ^^Disclaimer: if Schmendrick is a pseudonym and you are GRRM, please disregard this offer as we know you are working on another project.^^ <grin>

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