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Schmendrick

R + L = Lightbringer -- Updated with Part II

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He was the keeper of the library of Winterfell at the same time. He looked like an intelligent and nice guy.

Maester Luwin would fit that mold better than septon Chayle and Luwin was incorrect about almost everything important that he could have had an impact on (namely Bran). As far as Winterfell is concerned Old Nan is the only person whos quotes should be taken seriously IMO.

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Maester Luwin would fit that mold better than septon Chayle and Luwin was incorrect about almost everything important that he could have had an impact on (namely Bran). As far as Winterfell is concerned Old Nan is the only person whos quotes should be taken seriously IMO.

Because Luwin was a typical maester who had no belief in magic and prophecies.

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Because Luwin was a typical maester who had no belief in magic and prophecies.

Wasn't he actually an atypical maester who studied the higher mysteries at the Citadel? True, he didn't believe in that stuff, but he would still be knowledgeable about it.

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Definitely still coming. :) Sorry for the delay.

Hoping to have it done in a few days. It's coming along nicely. Going to be two or three times the size of Part I (which was really just the set up for this Part). There's so much to cover that I'll probably need a Part III also.

Are you... George himself? :)

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Please hurry kind sir, with each passing day your audience feels more and more like a forlorn maid that has been teased with a promise of a warrior's sword between her legs at long last, but days pass and it's not coming...It is not coming.



For George.



and



Schmendrick


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Please hurry kind sir, with each passing day your audience feels more and more like a forlorn maid that has been teased with a promise of a warrior's sword between her legs at long last, but days pass and it's not coming...It is not coming.

For George.

and

Schmendrick

Agreed! :agree: :agree: :agree:

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I personally enjoy this theory but I found much of the presented "evidence" to be rather far-fetched and over-reaching.

Maybe you need to read much more carefully. The OP presents some logical arguments in favor of Jon being Lightbringer, and that counts as a subversion of the magical sword trope. And we all know GRRM doesn't do the same old cliches.

So one strike against you and your feeble arguments.

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Maybe you need to read much more carefully. The OP presents some logical arguments in favor of Jon being Lightbringer, and that counts as a subversion of the magical sword trope. And we all know GRRM doesn't do the same old cliches.

So one strike against you and your feeble arguments.

Umm, I wasn't making an argument. I just said that I liked the theory and found some of the arguments to be rather credible. Just saying that I found a lot of it be way over-reaching.

And how was anything you said a "strike" against me or my "feeble" arguments. Nothing you said was backed up by logic or evidence, you were just stating your opinion. As was I.

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Are you... George himself? :)

Please hurry kind sir, with each passing day your audience feels more and more like a forlorn maid that has been teased with a promise of a warrior's sword between her legs at long last, but days pass and it's not coming...It is not coming.

For George.

and

Schmendrick

I take that as a strange sort of compliment. Maybe I should take a page from his book and start telling you about all the non-ASoIaF-related things I've been up to. Let's see ... played some video games ... caught up on a few episodes of Archer that had been sitting in my DVR ... heard the Lego movie was pretty good; might go see that with some friends .... :p In all seriousness, it's nearly done. I have limited free time today and tomorrow, but I should have it done this week barring any unforeseen problems.

I personally enjoy this theory but I found much of the presented "evidence" to be rather far-fetched and over-reaching.

Glad you enjoyed it. The main purpose of Part I is to lay out some of the general evidence that Lightbringer is a living thing and not a literal sword. On its own, Part I wouldn't be enough to convince me that Jon, specifically, is Lightbringer, and it's not intended to 100% convince anyone else of that, either. It's just one portion of a larger body of evidence. The majority of the evidence in favor of Jon being the Lightbringer will come with Part II. :)

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I take that as a strange sort of compliment. Maybe I should take a page from his book and start telling you about all the non-ASoIaF-related things I've been up to. Let's see ... played some video games ... caught up on a few episodes of Archer that had been sitting in my DVR ... heard the Lego movie was pretty good; might go see that with some friends .... :p In all seriousness, it's nearly done. I have limited free time today and tomorrow, but I should have it done this week barring any unforeseen problems.

Glad you enjoyed it. The main purpose of Part I is to lay out some of the general evidence that Lightbringer is a living thing and not a literal sword. On its own, Part I wouldn't be enough to convince me that Jon, specifically, is Lightbringer, and it's not intended to 100% convince anyone else of that, either. It's just one portion of a larger body of evidence. The majority of the evidence in favor of Jon being the Lightbringer will come with Part II. :)

Cant go wrong with Archer. I mean how hard is it to poach a god damn egg!

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Because Luwin was a typical maester who had no belief in magic and prophecies.

I think the opposite. He was one of the very few with a Valyrian steel Maester's link for studying magic.

He also crawls to the Heart tree to bleed and be mercy-killed, so he obviously believes in the old gods.

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[Aemon, Samwell POV, aFfC] It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought... the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. (...) he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet.

[benerro through Haldon's report and Tyrion's POV, aDwD] Her coming is a fulfilment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt she was born to make the world anew.She is Azor Ahai returned.

[Melissandre, through Jon's POV, aDwD] I have (...) read of it in an ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone.

The PTWP and AAR are the same person. It is known. Or if not a person, at least the same entity.

Promise me, Ned.

Jon is the PTWP. It is known.

[Jon's dream, aDwD] That night he dreamt (...) Jon was armoured in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. (...) Longclaw took his head off. (...) he whirled... and woke with a raven pecking at his chest. "Snow", the bird cried. (...) to glare down balefully at him through the predawn gloom.

Jon, the PTWP / AAR, fights with a burning sword... Lightbringer. The sword is Longclaw. Predawn gloom (therefore the darkness has gathered) makes sure we understand the dream is linked to reality.

These were the cons. Now the pros:

I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn.

The dragon has three heads.

Could the PTWP, AAR and LB be the same entity? I.e. the 3-headed dragon? If this is the case, then it can only be Jon = PTWP = AAR = LB.

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Jon was born in Dorne where the sun burns hot. But he was brought up in the North where it is cold. Does not this sound like a sword being hammered hot and then tempered in cold?


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Jon was born in Dorne where the sun burns hot. But he was brought up in the North where it is cold. Does not this sound like a sword being hammered hot and then tempered in cold?

Nice catch!

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The PTWP and AAR are the same person. It is known. Or if not a person, at least the same entity.

There is a quote by Mel in aSoS from Davos' POV that might have served as better proof where she proclaims Stannis as both. I think all three might be the same thing (tPtwP, AAR, and Lightbringer). I think the prophecy got jumbled a little through the retelling of it.

Could the PTWP, AAR and LB be the same entity? I.e. the 3-headed dragon? If this is the case, then it can only be Jon = PTWP = AAR = LB.

Again right one the money except I dont think that this is the three heads of the dragon. Dragons are different than heroes IMO. Just putting this out there, not saying I fully buy in, but in aSoFaI there are three types of dragons mentioned (and please, no one respond with "well there are gold dragons haha"). Fire, stone, and ice. We know fire has been awoken. Awakening the stone dragon people have wanted to attempt. The ice dragon only comes from Jon's POV and that is only by comparing the dragons breath to the cold he is experiencing. I don't think the dragon's three heads refers to people. I think that since there are currently three dragons GRRM wants us to think that (three heads = three riders). I think there is a deeper meaning and thats the conclusion I leaned towards. Also consider the three gods who show power: the Lord of Light (fire), the Drowned God (stone), and the Great Other (Ice, I am sure he has a different name but thats what Mel calls him). Just simple speculation, but if you go by the basic two extreme and one neutral scenario it works.

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The more I mull it over, the more comfortable I get with the idea of Tyrion being AA with Davos and Jaime being the broken swords and Jon being LB. I'll wait for the OP to post the second part of his theory before I go into any more detail to see if it sways me one way or the other.


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I forgot if this connection has been explicitly mentioned, it probably has.



A sword that sends off it's own heat would be a fine thing to have on the Wall, which would be an ironic statement if Jon is Lightbringer. And when he was talking to Tycho, he said that a dragon would be nice to have on the Wall. So, there's precedent for this kind of irony.


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