Sansa's Opening Move

[Broken Fox]

Dear god, do we have to explain again that no one--NO ONE--has said anything about her actually doing any fighting, picking up a sword at all, or do anything but the administrative and political things involved in warfare.

Is that all war is to you people? Just a bunch of swords and fires and blood and armor--no, it's not. If Robb Stark has taught us anything, it has as much to do with politics as battle strategy.

You misunderstood.

[QueenOfWhiteWalkers]

Her next move is figuring out how to keep Robin from latching onto her breast with one hand while holding a lemon cake in the other.

^^^^

I love Sansa but that is a funny post

[Jiriki]

Her narrative to me is about interior development, about turning the perceived weaknesses of politeness, court protocol and passiveness into strengths, about learning to work things from the inside, when you don't have access to an army only yourself. Her sitting in a war room making military decisions, I would find that totally absurd, it would be too much of a leap.

I feel the same way. Sansa's story arc has been about inner growth. About using your wits to defend yourself, not about learning how to attack others.

Some people have watched Snow White and the Huntsman too many times.

I like the idea of Sansa rising to a position of power but I can't see her being involved in anything military.

I really enjoyed Snow White and the Huntsman (particularly the wholy unexpected homage to Legend), but the idea of Sansa Stark in battle armor, giving motivational speeches to her troops as she orders them to war does seem to come directly from that film rather than anything written by GRRM.

[Another Locust]

Dear god, do we have to explain again that no one--NO ONE--has said anything about her actually doing any fighting, picking up a sword at all, or do anything but the administrative and political things involved in warfare.

Is that all war is to you people? Just a bunch of swords and fires and blood and armor--no, it's not. If Robb Stark has taught us anything, it has as much to do with politics as battle strategy.

Exactly. War is a funny concept, and Robb died for not understanding it. The thing is, Sansa has/in the process of having the intellect required to do these things. She's no warrior like Robb, that would be outragious, but she is able to learn from her surroundings and understand how some people think (Yes, we've gone over how she trusted <insert person here> and it ended badly). All of these are neccessary for command. But that's not what she has shown interest in this far. The chances of her becoming Dany 2.0 are incredibly slim, but the OP assumed that this was the case.

Assuming that Sansa becomes an commander/leader/whatever, the ideas presented make sense from a logical standpoint, but it isn't really healthy to assume here. Especially when Sansa's storyline is at a major turning point/climax. There's just too many possibilities to have this discussion without it being out-of-character. If she becomes the master player that we expect, then she will have to command in some form. (Keyword: form.) The problem with manipulating like Littlefinger is he doesn't actually have any power. Like TV Cersei said, Power is power, not knowledge.

But, any how, if she does become some kind of ruler, then she will be involved in military decisions to some extent. That is the way Westeros is. Doesn't mean she will pick up a sword herself or be commanding armies personally.

She doesn't really have a choice in the mater, agreed. That's simply one of the perks that comes with power: armies. I can imagine her going into combat with high grade steel armor and a double bladed war axe, but that's imagination. Not possible at all.

[Cas Stark]

Just from a technical standpoint, wouldn't she have to marry Harry and have him die in order to get "control" of the Vale or marry LF and have him die?

[Another Locust]

Some people have watched Snow White and the Huntsman too many times.

I like the idea of Sansa rising to a position of power but I can't see her being involved in anything military.

That movie really, really sucked. I felt I was being mocked while watching it. Can't believed I wasted two hours of my life with that. But power includes power you know, and military is both obtaining power and keeping it. She simply doesn't have a choice if she wants to accomplish anything.

[Cas Stark]

That movie really, really sucked. I felt I was being mocked while watching it. Can't believed I wasted two hours of my life with that. But with power includes power you know, and military is both obtaining power and keeping it. She simply doesn't have a choice if she wants to accomplish anything.

There are all kinds of power. Varys commands no armies, yet he is one of the most powerful people in Westeros.

[RoamingRonin]

Dear god, do we have to explain again that no one--NO ONE--has said anything about her actually doing any fighting, picking up a sword at all, or do anything but the administrative and political things involved in warfare.

Is that all war is to you people? Just a bunch of swords and fires and blood and armor--no, it's not. If Robb Stark has taught us anything, it has as much to do with politics as battle strategy.

There are no circumstances where her advice would be needed.

Married to Harry: Harry and his council of Vale lords will control the military.

Married to Robert: Littlefinger and/or the Vale lords will handle the military.

Sansa is right now in the middle of all of the Vale's military power. Why would her advice be needed at all? What does Sansa know about the Vale? Honestly, things would have to be dire for Sansa to have to voice an opinion on military matters.

"Where should be attack? What should we do?"

LET'S ASK SANSA.

:stillsick:

[Another Locust]

There are all kinds of power. Varys commands no armies, yet he is one of the most powerful people in Westeros.

She will need military strength. This doesn't mean that she will do the commanding, but she will need an army. In Varys' case, he takes advantage of his connections with the Golden Company to put Aegon on the throne. It's true that he doesn't command, but he still uses the power. I'm also pretty sure that Varys forfeited his influence when he fled Kings Landing.

"Where should be attack? What should we do?"

LET'S ASK SANSA.

:stillsick:

Sansa Stark is a seasoned warrior. (I actually wonder what her answer would be...)

[Broken Fox]

I foresee a Sansa vs. Dany duel with swords in A Dream of Spring.

[Pod The Impaler]

What do you guys think will happen?

Will she gain control of the Vale ? I don't know about that.

The whole Vale situation is really up for grabs, and aside from Littlefinger's hegemony over it, there is no single power that looks able to rule it. Unless Baelish himself has some Arryn blood, or that daughter the Burned Men carried off turns up again, House Arryn is basically spent. Harry The heir is no solution (and I think if LF has his way, will die as well.)

Sansa is no military leader - not even in the sense that Dany is (i.e. not trained at arms, but having a militarized agenda).

The weapons Sansa has in any struggle are basically charm, perceptiveness, and information. Sansa has as lot of very dangerous information stored in her head. Should she realize its value and how to use it, then she might become a big influence in what happens in the Vale. Or at least in her own life. She knows Lysa murdered Jon Arryn, at LF's behest. She knows that Joffrey's death was Littlefinger's work as much as the Tyrells (and Tyrion is innocent). She knows LF killed Lady Lysa. (And of course, she is Sansa, not Alayne, which changes everything if known.)

As well, there's the information she might learn as news - that "Arya" has married Lord Bolton's son, that The Hound sacked Saltpans with many atrocities committed, that someone named Lady Stoneheart is hanging Freys and their allies all around the Riverlands, that Cersei and Margaery have been arrested by The Faith and put on trial, "Aegon" has landed with an army, and Jon Snow has been possibly slain in a mutiny at the wall.

Short term, Sansa is going to have to deal with the Sweetrobin issue - she now has received a pretty clear sign that her cousin is marked for death.

She may have to come up with a way to save him. Of course, this would throw a wrench in LF's plans regarding Harry The Heir.

Matching up Mya Stone and Lothor Brune might be a good move she can make, not for "true love", but if she can accomplish it, she may win the loyalty of Brune and that may be needed later.

(After all, a king's bastard is a pretty good catch for an upjumped freerider like him)

There's also got to be something coming with respect to Brienne, The Hound, the Mad Mouse, and the Blackfish. One of these characters has got to figure in her story ahead.

And I have a feeling we'll be seeing the hill tribes such as the Burned Men back in the action. Timett Son Of Timett met Sansa; he may recognize her. Perhaps she can charm them, and they might help her for the Halfman's sake.

[Pod The Impaler]

Sansa Stark is a seasoned warrior. (I actually wonder what her answer would be...)

"CALL THE BANNERS - WE SHALL INVADE DORNE !"

"Umm, why ?"

"Because that's where Westeros' lemon supply is."

[Hypnomagica]

I don't know who this "general consensus" is but they're all idiots, apparently. Sansa's first move will be whatever LF wants it to be.

And why do people think she will triumph "over" Baelish? It may have gone over most of your heads that Baelish is on her side. At the very least, he is her strongest ally and had orchestrated any rise to power she might see, which I doubt to begin with.

[Another Locust]

I don't know who this "general consensus" is but they're all idiots, apparently. Sansa's first move will be whatever LF wants it to be.

And why do people think she will triumph "over" Baelish? It may have gone over most of your heads that Baelish is on her side. At the very least, he is her strongest ally and had orchestrated any rise to power she might see, which I doubt to begin with.

Explaining how Sansa will remain a pawn isn't the purpose of this thread. I respect your right to have an opinion, but please make a post that actually contributes to the current topic. It puts us in a bad mood and creates a hostile environment.

I foresee a Sansa vs. Dany duel with swords in A Dream of Spring.

Yes!

"CALL THE BANNERS - WE SHALL INVADE DORNE !"

"Umm, why ?"

"Because that's where Westeros' lemon supply is."

I agree.

[Cas Stark]

I don't know who this "general consensus" is but they're all idiots, apparently. Sansa's first move will be whatever LF wants it to be.

And why do people think she will triumph "over" Baelish? It may have gone over most of your heads that Baelish is on her side. At the very least, he is her strongest ally and had orchestrated any rise to power she might see, which I doubt to begin with.

No. He is not on her side. He is responsible for her father's death. He, not the Tyrells is the prime mover behind her involvement in Joff's death, in order to ensure she is under his full control. He is using her. The second she shows any signs of independence he will throw her out the moon door as easily as he betrayed Cat and Lysa.

[Another Locust]

Also, don't feed trolls. It only makes it worse.

[Hypnomagica]

No. He is not on her side. He is responsible for her father's death. He, not the Tyrells is the prime mover behind her involvement in Joff's death, in order to ensure she is under his full control. He is using her. The second she shows any signs of independence he will throw her out the moon door as easily as he betrayed Cat and Lysa.

Her father was ultimately going down regardless of what Baelish did, LF just chose to go for the winning side, you will recall that he gave Ned the perfect opportunity to save himself. Not that it matters because Sansa does not KNOW that, she has no reason to ever suspect that Petyr had anything to do with her father's capture. Joffrey is the sole person responsible for his death as far as we know.

His murdering of Lysa was probably a net positive for everyone involved, that woman was insane, poison to realm, and all around bad leader. Not saying that what he did was morally right, only that it was the only logical thing to do in his situation.

My point is that from Sansa's view, LF saved her from King Landing. her insane aunt and is now conspiring to marry her to a future Great Lord and help her win back her ancestral seat of Winterfell. And she has no reason to suspect otherwise, even his convincing Lysa to murder he husband should have little effect because she did not know or care about Jon Arryn.

(Edited for errors.)

[Another Locust]

Her father was ultimately going down regardless of what Baelish did, LF just chose to go for the winning side, you will recall that he gave Ned the perfect opportunity to save himself. Not that it matters because Sansa does not KNOW that, she has no reason to ever suspect that Petyr had anything to do with her father's capture. Joffrey is the sole person responsible for his death as far as we know.

His murdering of Lysa was probably a net positive for everyone involved, that woman was insane, poison to realm, and all around bad leader. Not saying that what he did was morally right, only that it was the only logical thing to do in his situation.

My point is that from Sansa's view, LF saved her from King Landing. her insane aunt and is now conspiring to marry her to a future Great Lord and help her win back her ancestral seat of Winterfell. And she has no reason to suspect otherwise, even his convincing Lysa to murder he husband should have little effect because she did not know or care about Jon Arryn.

(Edited for errors.)

I've never thought of it that way. That actually makes sense! (Not sarcasm) To add to this, she could actually handle HtH the way LF told her to. I'm almost certain that Baelish has a different plan in mind, but this would actually benefit her in the long run. With Harry in her pocket, she has the Lords Declarant in her pocket. With the Lords declarant in her pocket, she has the Vale of Arryn in her pocket. I'm probably going to add a quote to support my argument, but I don't feel like doing it right now.

Lysa was a huge problem and a threat.

Eddard was doomed when he informed Cersei of his plans

As far as we know, Joffrey removed Net Stark's head.

If Sansa is willing to take advantage of her situation and not let honor hold her back, then things might just work out. She's actually in a reasonably good position, assuming that LF can be removed (Not likely). It's only a matter of time.

The only problem I have with this is that Sansa will become Littlefinger 2.0, and that's the complete opposite of what I want. It doesn't get much worse in my eyes.

[Hypnomagica]

The only problem I have with this is that Sansa will become Littlefinger 2.0

I really don't think that is at all likely, although there are actually huge parallels between the two characters. Both were violently disabused of their notions of romance and chivalry at a very young age and both were spurned by the one they loved.

But honestly, Sansa is not as smart or as ruthless as Baelish. Even if she learns from him and takes proper advantage of her situation, she would never be Littlefinger 2.0, or even Danny 2.0 as some have speculated, she will be a ruler wholly unto herself.

I also don't see why LF has to leave the picture for Sansa to rise to power, he is her strongest ally and potentially her greatest asset. Baelish likes to control things and enjoys power but he seems to prefer working behind the scenes. Sansa looks up to him a great deal and their interests are largely aligned. Petyr knows he can not rule the Vale or the North by himself but he can set himself up as the leader of an alliance between the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands.

This arrangement would play out to the benefit of everyone involved.

(Edited for typos.)

[Another Locust]

I really don't think that is at all likely, although there are actually huge parallels between the two characters. Both were violently disabused of their notions of romance and chivalry at a very young age and both were spurned by the one they loved.

But honestly, Sansa is not as smart or as ruthless as Baelish. Even if she learns from him and takes proper advantage of her situation, she would never be Littlefinger 2.0, or even Danny 2.0 as some have speculated, she will be a ruler wholly unto herself.

I also don't see why LF has to leave the picture for Sansa to rise to power, he is her strongest ally and potentially her greatest asset. Baelish likes to control things and enjoys power but he seems to prefer working behind the scenes. Sansa looks up to him a great deal and their interests are largely aligned. Petyr knows he can not rule the Vale or the North by himself but he can set himself up as the leader of an alliance between the North, the Vale, and the Riverlands.

This arrangement would play out to the benefit of everyone involved.

(Edited for typos.)

The idea is for Sansa to take control of the situation, without being the monster/psychopath that Littlefinger is. They do have a strikingly similar past, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with either of these scenarios. Sansa remaining a puppet is disappointing, and Sansa acting like Littlefinger is also dissapointing. Littlefinger needs Sansa, and when he won't need her forever. She simply knows too much to remain alive. As of now, she is forced to depend on him, which was his goal. I feel like he has realized that it's getting out of hand, so she is in great danger. We saw what happened to his other pawns.

The only person who gains here is Littlefinger. Petyr only cares about Petyr, despite what one may think. He doesn't give two s**** about Sansa, nor about Cat, or anyone for that matter. Littlefinger is using Sansa. I don't enjoy the thought of this continuing, and the thought of her doing this to others is truly terrifying. If there is any villain in this series, Petyr Baelish is it. Becoming LF 2.0 contradicts her development.

But that's not the point of this thread. The objective was to determine what Sansa would do first given that she has dominion of the Vale and the expertise required to act accordingly. I enjoy this debate here, but it's not really appropriate.

But I don't really care, this is quite a bit funner to debate about. The OP was a little far-fetched in my opinion, so carry on!