Small Questions v 10023

[Lost Melnibonean]

The way Catelyn thinks, it seems she think he knew she had been pregnant, imo.

(From aSoS, Catelyn II)

I doubt he knew who the father was, though. Hoster probably wouldn't have wanted it known, and I doubt Jon Arryn would have been so kind to Littlefinger if he knew. I mean, giving him important positions and whatnot.

This. But one thing really bothers me. It is said that Petyr openly bragged of deflowering both Tully girls. How did Jon Arryn put up with that?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

This. But one thing really bothers me. It is said that Petyr openly bragged of deflowering both Tully girls. How did Jon Arryn put up with that?

Maybe he stuck his fingers in his ears and sang a little song? :dunno:

Srsly, there's openly and openly. I'm guessing LF bragged when none of the involved parties were around.

[mindchap]

Maybe he stuck his fingers in his ears and sang a little song? :dunno:

Srsly, there's openly and openly. I'm guessing LF bragged when none of the involved parties were around.

That, or maybe Jon Arryn was too busy being King Hand to notice. :)

[Lost Melnibonean]

That, or maybe Jon Arryn was too busy being King Hand to notice. :)

The best explanation I can come up with is that LF didn't brag openly until after Jon's death. Does that jibe with what others think about it? It's just Jaime and Tyrion that think about it, right?

[mindchap]

The best explanation I can come up with is that LF didn't brag openly until after Jon's death. Does that jibe with what others think about it? It's just Jaime and Tyrion that think about it, right?

So far as I have found, he only bragged about Cat's:

“Why would Petyr lie to me?”

“Why does a bear shit in the woods?” he demanded. “Because it is his nature. Lying comes as easily as breathing to a man like Littlefinger. You ought to know that, you of all people.”

She took a step toward him, her face tight. “And what does that mean, Lannister?”

Tyrion cocked his head. “Why, every man at court has heard him tell how he took your maidenhead, my lady.”

“That is a lie!” Catelyn Stark said.

I wonder if maybe he really believed that he had taken it when he took Lysa's, he was drunk afterall.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Is there any indication until which age children are usually fostered? I am asking specifically for the case of Oberyn (so not a hostage situation like Theon, but a fostering out of free will).

And another: how long would it take you minimally to forge one link at the Citadel? My gut tells me 6 months minimum, but I truly don't have any textual evidence. Anyone?

[The Crow's Third Eye]

1) The examples I am think of are Big Walder and Little Walder who are 8 iirc when they are fostered at Winterfell. That seems about average as Robert Arryn is 6(?) when Jon enters into talks with Dtannis about fostering him on Dragonstone.

2) I think it all depends on who is forging the link. Pate was obviously very slow to acheive anything, whereas Alleras/Sarella seems to have excepped and forged her chain quickly. So i think it varies depending how intelligent/capable you are. 6 months seems a bit too long for the likes of Sarella, but too short for Pate

[mindchap]

Is there any indication until which age children are usually fostered? I am asking specifically for the case of Oberyn (so not a hostage situation like Theon, but a fostering out of free will).

And another: how long would it take you minimally to forge one link at the Citadel? My gut tells me 6 months minimum, but I truly don't have any textual evidence. Anyone?

You might be able to get an idea from this, I'm still working on my comp so I can't search everything yet but its in CoK pg 66 (or thereabouts):

Mormont continued. “Aemon was at his books when the eldest of his uncles, the heir apparent, was slain in a tourney mishap. He left two sons, but they followed him to the grave not long after, during the Great Spring Sickness. King Daeron was also taken, so the crown passed to Daeron’s second son, Aerys.”

“The Mad King?” Jon was confused. Aerys had been king before Robert, that wasn’t so long ago.

“No, this was Aerys the First. The one Robert deposed was the second of that name.”

“How long ago was this?”

“Eighty years or close enough,” the Old Bear said, “and no, I still hadn’t been born, though Aemon had forged half a dozen links of his maester’s chain by then.

You know the timeline stuff better than I do.

Bit more:

Alleras would make a maester. He had only been at the Citadel for a year, yet already he had forged three links of his maester’s chain. Armen might have more, but each of his had taken him a year to earn. Still, he would make a maester too. Roone and Mollander remained pink-necked novices, but Roone was very young and Mollander preferred drinking to reading.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

You might be able to get an idea from this, I'm still working on my comp so I can't search everything yet but its in CoK pg 66 (or thereabouts):

You know the timeline stuff better than I do.

Bit more:

Thanks, I knew of the Alleras quote, but I didn't have my book with me and I couldn't remember he exact thing. That Aemon passage is very usefull, I'm going to see what I can make of that :D

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1) The examples I am think of are Big Walder and Little Walder who are 8 iirc when they are fostered at Winterfell. That seems about average as Robert Arryn is 6(?) when Jon enters into talks with Dtannis about fostering him on Dragonstone.

I didn't mean the age on which the children start being fostered . That would be about 8 or 9 (Ned, Robert, Doran). I meant the age at which they would usually return back home (or at least stop being fostered).

[mindchap]

Thanks, I knew of the Alleras quote, but I didn't have my book with me and I couldn't remember he exact thing. That Aemon passage is very usefull, I'm going to see what I can make of that :D

I was thinking they were something like college credits.

I didn't mean the age on which the children start being fostered . That would be about 8 or 9 (Ned, Robert, Doran). I meant the age at which they would usually return back home (or at least stop being fostered).

Weren't Ned and Rob still being fostered when Rickard and Brandon were killed? Or were they just there? That seems way too old to be fostered though.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

I didn't mean the age on which the children start being fostered . That would be about 8 or 9 (Ned, Robert, Doran). I meant the age at which they would usually return back home (or at least stop being fostered).

Oops, my bad sorry! I have vague memories of a thread where some thought Robert and Ned were no longer wards of Jon Arryn at the ToHH but I cant recall why. Maybe it depends on the ward and circunstances of their home. For example, Big Walder and Little Walder had nothing pressing to return to the Twins for as they were so far removed from inheriting the Lord of the Crossing title. However, Doran was heir to Dorne and so would have had to return to his duties if his Mother(?) died. That said, a gut instinct tells me that probably somewhere around the age of knighthood, but thats assumption. I cant think of any yextual evidence,

[Don Roberto]

I didn't mean the age on which the children start being fostered . That would be about 8 or 9 (Ned, Robert, Doran). I meant the age at which they would usually return back home (or at least stop being fostered).

There's an SSM about this, basically commenting that once Ned and Robert had achieved adulthood at 16, they were free from ward duties and would come and go as they pleased, though they'd still return to the Eerie from time to time out of affection for Jon. I imagine this also applies for every fostered child with the exception of the disguised prisoners (Theon, Hos, the Redwyne twins etc.).

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Oops, my bad sorry! I have vague memories of a thread where some thought Robert and Ned were no longer wards of Jon Arryn at the ToHH but I cant recall why. Maybe it depends on the ward and circunstances of their home. For example, Big Walder and Little Walder had nothing pressing to return to the Twins for as they were so far removed from inheriting the Lord of the Crossing title. However, Doran was heir to Dorne and so would have had to return to his duties if his Mother(?) died. That said, a gut instinct tells me that probably somewhere around the age of knighthood, but thats assumption. I cant think of any yextual evidence,

There's an SSM about this, basically commenting that once Ned and Robert had achieved adulthood at 16, they were free from ward duties and would come and go as they pleased, though they'd still return to the Eerie from time to time out of affection for Jon. I imagine this also applies for every fostered child with the exception of the disguised prisoners (Theon, Hos, the Redwyne twins etc.).

I think you guys are referring to the same SSM :) But I vaguely remember something like 16 as well, now that you mention it.

It would indeed be logical that Walder and Walder wouldn't be in such a hurry to return to the Twins, but someone higher in the inheritance line (like Doran) might indeed leave at the age of 16, reaching adulthood.

Robert hanging around at the Eyrie is logical. Robert was born in 283 AC, and his parents died in 278 AC when he was 15. So when Robert reached adulthood, he had no parents to return to, only an infant brother, and a 15 year old brother whom he did not get along. On the other side, in the Eyrie was Jon Arryn, who he saw as a father. Ned might have visited the Eyrie more often than someone who is no longer being fostered because his foster brother and foster father were there. But Ned's presence there could also be because of Rickard's Southern Ambitions. Ned's presence at the Eyrie would be another reason for Robert to return to the Eyrie.

In any case, thanks for all the responses :)

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

And another question, but I thought it might be better to post that one separately.

Any chance anyone knows how many links you need to forge at the Citadel before you're a maester?

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

I don't know if this has been answered before and I don't know how to look it up, but I've been wondering about it. When we are first introduced to Tyrion it is at Winterfell with his brother and sister. Does this mean that he's been living at Court with them rather than Casterly Rock? If so, I wonder why, or if he just joined them on their trip to Winterfell b/c he wanted to visit the North? I can't remember reading anything that explains why he is part of this group that comes to Winterfell.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I don't know if this has been answered before and I don't know how to look it up, but I've been wondering about it. When we are first introduced to Tyrion it is at Winterfell with his brother and sister. Does this mean that he's been living at Court with them rather than Casterly Rock? If so, I wonder why, or if he just joined them on their trip to Winterfell b/c he wanted to visit the North? I can't remember reading anything that explains why he is part of this group that comes to Winterfell.

Tyrions memories indicate that Tyrion spend some time at court over the years, yes. But at least until the age of 16 he lived at CR. That's when Tywin gave him charge of all the cisterns and drains at Casterly Rock. This suggests that Tyrion remained to live at CR.

Cersei and her children were visiting Casterly Rock when the news of Jon Arryns death arrived. It is possible that Robert also made sure Cersei heard about his plans to go north, as she would have to return to KL to be able to travel along with him. Tyrion could have tagged along.

[Mother of Mini Dragons]

Tyrions memories indicate that Tyrion spend some time at court over the years, yes. But at least until the age of 16 he lived at CR. That's when Tywin gave him charge of all the cisterns and drains at Casterly Rock. This suggests that Tyrion remained to live at CR.

Cersei and her children were visiting Casterly Rock when the news of Jon Arryns death arrived. It is possible that Robert also made sure Cersei heard about his plans to go north, as she would have to return to KL to be able to travel along with him. Tyrion could have tagged along.

Yes, I had forgotten about them visiting Casterly Rock at the time. I don't know why this bugged me, but one of those things that popped in my head.

[The Crow's Third Eye]

And another question, but I thought it might be better to post that one separately.

Any chance anyone knows how many links you need to forge at the Citadel before you're a maester?

I dont think there is an exact count, just sufficient to fit around the neck I suppose. However, its interesting to note thst you seem to be able to get multiple links of the same metal, as demonstrsted by Pycelle's chain and Tyriond remarks. I also think it safe to assume that the greater a maester's chain, the better the castle they will be appointed to. So for.instance, a quickly forged chain of a few metals that is just sufficient is appropriate for maybe a landed knight or petty lord, whereas a long study and large chain of many metals is more appropriate for a grester Lord or Warden of the xxxx. On that note, are there any descriptions of Luwins chain? And finally, why are there twp maesters at Sunspear with Doran?

ETA: for clarity, young Maester Myles and Maester Caleotte are at Sunspear in the Watcher, wrt to.my.question

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

I dont think there is an exact count, just sufficient to fit around the neck I suppose. However, its interesting to note thst you seem to be able to get multiple links of the same metal, as demonstrsted by Pycelle's chain and Tyriond remarks. I also think it safe to assume that the greater a maester's chain, the better the castle they will be appointed to. So for.instance, a quickly forged chain of a few metals that is just sufficient is appropriate for maybe a landed knight or petty lord, whereas a long study and large chain of many metals is more appropriate for a grester Lord or Warden of the xxxx. On that note, are there any descriptions of Luwins chain? And finally, why are there twp maesters at Sunspear with Doran?

I think one maester travelled from the Water Gardens to Sunspear along with Doran (so he would be the maester of the Water Gardens), and one maester was the actual maester of Sunspear.

It makes sense that the more links you get, the higher station you'd get. But I do believe it would involve getting more links of different metals. 16 different metals are known to fit in a maesters chain.

About Luwins chain, all I can remember is that he had a Valyrian Steel link (magic) and that he was one of the few who bothered to try out for that link.

But I was kind of hoping for a minimum number. Any idea on that? I have no idea how big a link is...

Edit: Maester Caleotte is at the Water Gardens with Doran in chapter 2 of aFfC. Ser Arys mentions that Maester Myles resides in Sunspear.