Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 In aGoT Ned mentions Renly had been 8 years old when Robert took the throne, placing Renly's year of birth in either 275 or 274 AC. However, bothe Catelyn and maester Cressen mention that Renly is 21 in aCoK, placing Renly's year of birth in either 278 or 277. Since these don't match :) and maester Cressen seems to be the most reliable source, seeing as how he watched Renly grow up, is Ned misremembering here? Or am I not seeing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Jon Weirgaryen, thank you so much, you truly deserve something great to happen to you everyday this year :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Talking about "Prince Doran and all his sons" as a possible mistake in another thread got me thinking. When Joffrey turned to look out over the hall, his eye caught Sansa’s. He smiled, seated himself, and spoke. “It is a king’s duty to punish the disloyal and reward those who are true. Grand Maester Pycelle, I command you to read my decrees.”Pycelle pushed himself to his feet. He was clad in a magnificent robe of thick red velvet, with an ermine collar and shiny gold fastenings. From a drooping sleeve, heavy with gilded scrollwork, he drew a parchment, unrolled it, and began to read a long list of names, commanding each in the name of king and council to present themselves and swear their fealty to Joffrey. Failing that, they would be adjudged traitors, their lands and titles forfeit to the throne.The names he read made Sansa hold her breath. Lord Stannis Baratheon, his lady wife, his daughter. Lord Renly Baratheon. Both Lord Royces and their sons. Ser Loras Tyrell. Lord Mace Tyrell, his brothers, uncles, sons. The red priest, Thoros of Myr. Lord Beric Dondarrion. Lady Lysa Arryn and her son, the little Lord Robert. Lord Hoster Tully, his brother Ser Brynden, his son Ser Edmure. Lord Jason Mallister. Lord Bryce Caron of the Marches. Lord Tytos Blackwood. Lord Walder Frey and his heir Ser Stevron. Lord Karyl Vance. Lord Jonos Bracken. Lady Sheila Whent. Doran Martell, Prince of Dorne, and all his sons. So many, she thought as Pycelle read on and on, it will take a whole flock of ravens to send out these commands. Then just a little further down: “It is also the wish of His Grace that his loyal servant, Janos Slynt, Commander of the City Watch of King’s Landing, be at once raised to the rank of lord and granted the ancient seat of Harrenhal with all its attendant lands and incomes... First, why exactly did House Whent lose Harrenhal? I thought it was because she never showed up as commanded, but Joffrey gives her about 45 seconds to do so before awarding it to the newly formed House Slynt. I know she yielded to Tywin because she didn't have men to defend Harrenhal, but I didn't think that meant she was divested of her lands. She didn't really do anything as far as I know*, Tywin just wanted a nice base of operations for his campaign in the Riverlands. In the Princess and The Queen Daemon and then Aemond take Harrenhal from House Strong (and house Strong strikes their banners in the first case) but they don't lose the castle. They are still in possession of it when Aemond returns on Vhagar to burn the place. Doran and his sons never show up as commanded. The Red Viper only arrives to take Doran's place on the Small Council when he is later offered one. This might just be a case of Joffrey being a moron and risking antagonizing the Dornish while still fighting the North, Riverlands and Stormlands. Still it seems odd that Doran would get a raven with that command and then do nothing at all. *Unless Tywin was aware that Whent men at arms helped arrest Tyrion, but so did a few other houses who I don't think lost their seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Jon Weirgaryen, thank you so much, you truly deserve something great to happen to you everyday this year :bowdown: Happy to help! Thanks for the good wishes! @Rhaenys AGoT 15 Sansa I: His companion was a man near twenty whose armor was steel plate of a deep forest-green. He was the handsomest man Sansa had ever set eyes upon; tall and powerfully made, with jet-black hair that fell to his shoulders and framed a clean-shaven face, and laughing green eyes to match his armor. Cradled under one arm was an antlered helm, its magnificent rack shimmering in gold. Sansa is on track with Catelyn and Cressen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Happy to help! Thanks for the good wishes! @Rhaenys AGoT 15 Sansa I: Sansa is on track with Catelyn and Cressen.It seems only Ned is off by a few years.. I guess Ned is wrong then, it's three against one :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It seems only Ned is off by a few years.. I guess Ned is wrong then, it's three against one :D So much for Ned as a reliable source on anything... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Talking about "Prince Doran and all his sons" as a possible mistake in another thread got me thinking. Then just a little further down: First, why exactly did House Whent lose Harrenhal? I thought it was because she never showed up as commanded, but Joffrey gives her about 45 seconds to do so before awarding it to the newly formed House Slynt. I know she yielded to Tywin because she didn't have men to defend Harrenhal, but I didn't think that meant she was divested of her lands. She didn't really do anything as far as I know*, Tywin just wanted a nice base of operations for his campaign in the Riverlands. In the Princess and The Queen Daemon and then Aemond take Harrenhal from House Strong (and house Strong strikes their banners in the first case) but they don't lose the castle. They are still in possession of it when Aemond returns on Vhagar to burn the place. Doran and his sons never show up as commanded. The Red Viper only arrives to take Doran's place on the Small Council when he is later offered one. This might just be a case of Joffrey being a moron and risking antagonizing the Dornish while still fighting the North, Riverlands and Stormlands. Still it seems odd that Doran would get a raven with that command and then do nothing at all. *Unless Tywin was aware that Whent men at arms helped arrest Tyrion, but so did a few other houses who I don't think lost their seats.R_T's answer was so much better than mine I had to erase this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think also important is that the lady holding Harrenhal, Lady Sheila, was no Whent by blood, but by marriage. Since she was ruling Harrenhal, it seems as if her four sons and her daughter pre-deceased her. The Whents would lose Harrenhal with the death of Shiela. So even though she was supposed to come and swear fealthy, might be they wanted to take Harrenhal away from her anyway and give it to someone else.It's also possible that they wantwd to keep Sheila hostage upon her arrival in KL, since she would be the good-kin of Holster Tully's late wife. That last one is a long shot though...Most likely they felt that Harrenhal was going to waste in the hands of a woman too old to bear heirs, which is why they took the castle and lands from her.Edit: as to the Martells, Tyrion arrives in KL not long after this, I believe, and he betroths Myrcella to Trystane, which Doran accepts, showing Dorne's loyalty to the IT. The time in between, they might not have wanted to attack the Martells indeed because of their strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By the Old Gods Not theNew Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 The situation of Lady Whent is kind of unclear, there have been some pretty in depth conversations trying to untangle the various references here and here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 It seems only Ned is off by a few years.. I guess Ned is wrong then, it's three against one :D So much for Ned as a reliable source on anything... :-) He was too busy trying not to remember whatever he promised Lyanna. :) On a more serious note, maybe it was like the Blackfyre Rebellion bit, GRRM just didn't have everything hammmered out yet in the first book and did some tweaking afterwards. There is an SSM where he mentions that he isn't very good with that sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 . There is an SSM where he mentions that he isn't very good with that sort of thing.Is GRRM planning to edit books after he finish all books (to make all consistent)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyti_Von_Totiy Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Is Moon boy actully Varys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Is GRRM planning to edit books after he finish all books (to make all consistent)?Didn't Tolkien go back and rework The Hobbit after he wrote The Lord of the Rings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissa Nymeros Martell Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why did Varys also kill Pycelle? I understand why he killed Kevan. But why did Pycelle have to die? Was it just because he was in Cersei's pocket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordelor Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why did Varys also kill Pycelle? I understand why he killed Kevan. But why did Pycelle have to die? Was it just because he was in Cersei's pocket? He could know abou Aegon being fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Is GRRM planning to edit books after he finish all books (to make all consistent)? Didn't Tolkien go back and rework The Hobbit after he wrote The Lord of the Rings? With at least two more novels plus eight or nine more D&Es left, he may not have time to, besides most are just small subtle mistakes that the average person would never even pick up on. And yep, there were three editions of the Hobbit, I think(with the explanation that one was the story Bilbo made up, one that he told Gandalf, and then one as it actually happened) Why did Varys also kill Pycelle? I understand why he killed Kevan. But why did Pycelle have to die? Was it just because he was in Cersei's pocket? I wondered about that too, if Varys wanted Cers to rule just to make Aegon look good by comparison then he should have left Pycelle alive, he wasn't exactly the most competent man in the realm. Unless maybe he wanted Cers to have to run the kingdom all by herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Why did Varys also kill Pycelle? I understand why he killed Kevan. But why did Pycelle have to die? Was it just because he was in Cersei's pocket? Kevan and Pycelle together were ruling the Kingdoms very well, and they were creating peace all over, solving all the problems. Varys needs chaos, and so, instead of killing only Kevan and risking Pycelle working on with another to restore the peace, he killed them both. Also, Pycelle has once claimed that "there are things I might tell you of that eunuch that would chill your blood". Do keep in mind that Pycelle was about to be arrested, and Pycelle's biggest chance of escaping from this arrest (as he most likely saw it) was blaming Varys (which didn't work). Should Pycelle actually know that sort of things about Varys, Varys might want to get him out of the way because of that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord A.Reyne Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Was Jon Arryn at the tourney at Harrenhal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Was Jon Arryn at the tourney at Harrenhal? Yes, he was fighting with Robert in the seven-sided melee when Rhaegar entered the field to unhorse Barristan. Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion’s crown. The only other known Jon present was Jon Connington, but Ned wouldn't know JonCon well enough to call him by his first name, especially not 17 years later in his memory. So Ned is thinking of Jon Arryn here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The situation of Lady Whent is kind of unclear, there have been some pretty in depth conversations trying to untangle the various references here and here. Even though the info at times contradicts each other, I tend to side with the SSMs when the books contain contradicting info.This SSM (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Shella_Whent) states that Shella was the wife of Lord Whent. Lord Whent was the brother of Ser Oswell Whent, and the man who staged the great tourney at Harrenhal. He and Shella had four sons and a daughter, the fair maid.The quote (can't remember the exact one right now and can't look it up) "I worked for Lady Whent and her father and her father's father before her", could be taken as a mistake made by the person saying it. It could be he was mistaken...Though most likely it was a small mistake by GRRM :) in that case, I go with the SSM.But in any case, Lady Whent is the last, so all her children are dead. And she would be either good-kin to Minisa Whent (Hosters wife) or kin by blood. Neither would make a good hostage against the ill Hoster, but you need to take what you can get, I guess.. (in the Lannisters case).That is what I suspect happened, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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