Straczynski/Wachowski Sense8 on Netflix

[Martini Sigil]

5 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Ain't that from Ep 3?  I thought I was only on Ep 3...

 

Ep 4 if you count the xmas episode... 

 

[SpaceChampion]

Xmas episode was two hours, so wouldn't that make them eps 1 and 2?

On ep 4 of the 10:

Spoiler

Anonymous guy going all V for Vendetta in the movie theatre made me laugh, when I remembered that was Wachowskis too.

 

[Martini Sigil]

Depressed, ice cream binging Lito in onesie pajamas is hilarious.

[Werthead]

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Xmas episode was two hours, so wouldn't that make them eps 1 and 2?

Season 2 got a 12-episode order, same as Season 1. Then they decided the gap was too large, so they made Episodes 1 and 2 into an Xmas special.

There's a rather pitiful lot of people screaming "SJW Sense8 got a reduced episode order for Season 2!" and it's a case of no, Netflix wanted more Sense8 sooner, so they had to adjust.

[Mladen]

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1. The fight scene in Episode 7 is as good as it gets. It is by far the best moment this season.

2. The pacing was impeccable until last episode and then, it all went kinda rushed. However, the Will's twist with Whisperer, although having some logistical issues, was done nicely.

3. I feel as 10 episodes work better for the season. Although, with Christmas special, it is 12 episodes. It just didn't drag unnecessarily as sometimes some Netflix shows do.

4. It was rather emotional journey, and each character had its moment. It was a bit "now we will stop everything so they have that awesome speech" but overall, I liked it.

5. Riley and Kala were not useless this season, which I applaud. I especially liked how Kala made the "heroic" trio - Wolfgang, Will and Sun listen to her.

 

 

[the hound of sansa]

I finished the season, and have a few questions 

Spoiler

soo, how exactly did they get inside the facility in the end, without anyone seeing them, how was will actually sitting in the room with whispers,how did  the gang show up at jonas' house? did they magically acquire all that knowledge? and since they broke in, why didn't they have wolfgang with them in the end? I didn't see him in the van.

 

[Kyoshi]

I finished the season. Now I'm just filled with regret. Going to take a nap now.

[Mladen]

@the hound of sansa, yeah I was wondering the same, but it really does seem

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that Wolfgang is still imprisoned. Which makes no sense to me, as he is in London and if they were able to get Whispers, how come they were not able to reach Wolfgang?

 

[Dr. Pepper]

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I feel like all of the BPO/Whispers stuff was really confusing.  I don't really understand what was going on, what was the point of the program, when it changed, and why it continues.  I stopped paying attention to that plot after a while and just focused on how the BPO plot drove the relationships between our cluster.  Wouldn't mind someone summarizing that part.

 

[Werthead]

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3. I feel as 10 episodes work better for the season. Although, with Christmas special, it is 12 episodes. It just didn't drag unnecessarily as sometimes some Netflix shows do.

 

This was very much the same Season 2 structure as Babylon 5: we get a backstory explanation (not the full story, but most of the gist of it), more action, faster pacing, some new characters, some unexpected new allies and use the backstory revelations to propel the story further forwards. Straczynski is a big fan of the five-act structure transplanted to television, and he's following that well with this show.

 

Quote

Spoiler

soo, how exactly did they get inside the facility in the end, without anyone seeing them, how was will actually sitting in the room with whispers,how did  the gang show up at jonas' house? did they magically acquire all that knowledge? and since they broke in, why didn't they have wolfgang with them in the end? I didn't see him in the van.

 

Will knew where Jonas was from their prior conversation in the apartment, when Jonas was saying that his situation was much-improved. There was a big window of the skyline and it'd be straightforward to work out roughly where he was, then have Nomi use her Magick Hacking Skills to confirm which flat had recently been rented by the company etc.

Locating the facility would be more difficult. My only guess is that there was some kind of brief discontinuity and they actually took Jonas prisoner first and got the location from him, although the direction suggests they knocked him out and he didn't wake up again.

As for why Wolfgang wasn't there, uncertain. Maybe he was in a deeper part of the facility with heavier security? They may also have rationalised that they could swap Whispers and Jonas for Wolfgang and some kind of deal for the cluster, since the company seems to have honoured its deals with other groups. They may also want an "in" with the company, maybe getting Kala to work from within or something?

[red snow]

been bingeing on it since Sunday - hope to finish today. I'm pleased I watched the xmas episode again. I'm pleased they've been giving us more on the sensates and other clusters. Still feeling like a slow burn but it's definitely gaining momentum and I think it would lose a lot of its charm abandoning the "slice of life" dramas - although at this stage it seems like Will, Nomi, Riley and Wolfgang are essentially concerned with the "SF" elements.

The soundtrack hasn't been quite as good this time around and felt the repetition uninspired rather than evoking a positive memory of previous usage.

Proper review once I'm done but I think this season would win people over more than the first in terms of focus and balance of individual stories vs main story. Sadly it'd be almost impossible to start watching from season 2. Fingers crossed there will be positive buzz bringing in new viewers and that fans of season 1 have stuck around.

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

The soundtrack hasn't been quite as good this time around and felt the repetition uninspired rather than evoking a positive memory of previous usage.

Oh, yes... I also thought the music was not as good as in Season 1. Definitely worse than in Christmas special. There weren't any song that immediately stayed in my mind. That said, occasionally. the background music did its magic. 

[HexMachina]

2 hours ago, red snow said:

been bingeing on it since Sunday - hope to finish today. I'm pleased I watched the xmas episode again. I'm pleased they've been giving us more on the sensates and other clusters. Still feeling like a slow burn but it's definitely gaining momentum and I think it would lose a lot of its charm abandoning the "slice of life" dramas - although at this stage it seems like Will, Nomi, Riley and Wolfgang are essentially concerned with the "SF" elements.

The soundtrack hasn't been quite as good this time around and felt the repetition uninspired rather than evoking a positive memory of previous usage.

Proper review once I'm done but I think this season would win people over more than the first in terms of focus and balance of individual stories vs main story. Sadly it'd be almost impossible to start watching from season 2. Fingers crossed there will be positive buzz bringing in new viewers and that fans of season 1 have stuck around.

I did find myself breaking out in a big smile when "What's Going On?" started to play. Not as good as the first season's scene with that playing but it did make me smile because of the association. 

I'm it slow because I have other stuff to do but I think this season has been great so far. Much better paced (the first few episodes of season one were a bit slow) and more focused on driving the plot forward now that we know and love the characters. Which isn't to say the character work isn't still great; it absolutely is, that is definitely the biggest strength of this show. 

I love that we are learning more of the mythos and meeting more clusters.

whoever mentioned the stupid rhetorical questions line, I agree, it was way funnier to watch than it is to read  

[Lord Varys]

Glad to see the show is back. I'm going to re-watch the first season this week and then dive into the new stuff (haven't seen the Christmas Special as of yet, either). Looking really forward to this, greatly enjoyed the first season.

[red snow]

12 hours ago, Risto said:

Oh, yes... I also thought the music was not as good as in Season 1. Definitely worse than in Christmas special. There weren't any song that immediately stayed in my mind. That said, occasionally. the background music did its magic. 

yeah, the original scoring worked well. I think the problem was season one was so heavy on iconic music it would have been pretty hard to top. I also wonder given the show's budget if this was an area they agreed to save on in season 2? I guess if you aren't promoting the music you are paying a lot for it.

It looks like this isn't a spoiler thread so I'll keep that in mind.

Anyway, first thought at the end of the season was "where's the next episode"? That's a good thing in the sense I've watched all those episodes in 1.5 days but also a little frustrating in a "there better be a damn season 3" and a "it sort of just stops as the over arcing plot was peaking. I guess that's a bit of a JMS thing.

In general I agree with Wert in that JMS is clearly writing this with his 5 year plan in place. Season 1 was about introducing the core cast and their powers and season 2 has expanded upon the sensates as a whole. I suspect season 3 is going to introduce

that there's an evil sensate cabal/cluster that's actually far more dangerous than the BPO and that by Will and co taking it down we'll see that Whispers and all the shit Jonas and cluster mum were involved in was partially justified. If not an existing evil group then we'll see the likes of the cluster Wolfgang met become part of a larger threat. Whoever they'll wind up being I'd be amazed if JMS doesn't go in this direction

It's a JMS type of trick and it also allows the show to expand and not stagnate with the BPO as this constant and often confusing antagonist.

As i mentioned in my earlier post I do think the balance was better in this season although there were elements where some characters seemed a bit self obsessed or lacking much in the way of curiousity.

the characters not caught up in the main story often had a hard to believe lack of interest. Lito has his own issues but you'd think he'd be a little more interested in the fate of his cluster and the evil organisation potentially hunting him down. But I think this is a part of his character as demonstrated with his depression episodes. Similarly Wolfgang was a bit too blase about meeting another cluster for the first time (Jonas and Whispers appear to be lone sensates now). Once again this sort of fits with Wolfgang who seems to have a general disconnect with the world (and possibly some kind of emotional cut off - surprised the show hasn't incorporated autism/aspergers etc). Will, Riley and Nomi (and arguably Sun whose own life doesn't leave much spare time) understandably have a lot of other problems on their hands but the general lack of interest in other clusters from the rest of them was sometimes a bit frustrating. But it could also be me projecting a bit of frustration at the slow drip of sensate/cluster info

There's also something undeniably "nice" about this show. Yes, there are dark moments but in general it's all about how people are connected, about acceptance and overcoming your fears/others' prejudice. I appreciate how they make a concerted effort to make the sensates' non-sensate family members have a bond which while not on a sensate level is just as important and different to them. I don't doubt for a moment that Lito and Nomi are closer to their partners than they are to their cluster.

As for the questions about the last episode

I spent most the season thinking there would be a moment where Whispers didn't realise Will was actually in the room so the seeds were there early on. Credit to them that they still surprised me. Will had the security card from the safe (luckily Whispers never thought to change his key card details or Nomi "skillzed" it), he probably had enough from his visits from the location too. I agree that Wolfgang was noticeably absent at the end so I guess Wispers and Jonas will be bargaining chips although it is strange how all evidence suggested Wolfgang must have been in the parliament building given Whispers was in te same building or very close by. I was a bit confused as to where all the blockers came from and why Kala wasn't apprehended as soon as Whispers had her name but I guess that explains the abundance of blockers

either way I have to admit the last 15 minutes was way too rushed and having time for it to sink in will probably highlight a multitude of inconsistencies.

There were a lot of early reviews hyping a growing of their powers. I didn't really see this other than them being more comfortable in their switching - especially in terms of multi-switching but I was expecting something a bit more "next level". I think there may have been hints (although it's hard to rule out whether they were just artistic misdirections) eg

the part where the cluster huddled around Sun did appear to shield her somewhat from the van crash and some of the fight scenes also suggested a potential physical/telekinetic ability might be there

. The only issue with the new power theory is

the other clusters (who are presumably older/been clusters for longer) should have these abilities too and therefore should have wiped the floor with "our" cluster (irrespective of how kick-ass "our" cluster is). In terms of the motorcycle sensate and Dr Radagast they never had to take part in any fighting so they could have all sorts of other powers but it's hard for the group Wolfgang encountered not to be using them. One way around this is that the show's cluster may be the next step in sensorium evolution and could be the result of their birthmother and BPOs meddling which would certainly give the show a reason to maintain its focus on them and why Whispers has such a boner for them

Some other general questions eg potential sensates

did anyone else keep expecting Kala's husband's "friend" to be one? I was surprised they didn't reveal that. He could easily be on blockers when encountering her.

Cluster sizes/age

sometimes it felt like the clusters obviously weren't all born on the same day? Does this mean that isn't a rule? This was most clear in the group that Capheus met in the final episode - although again the last episode was so rushed I wasn't clear whether they were "visiting" or actually in his room. It could be that he was seeing several clusters at once though. Then there was talk of Clustermom's previous family being 80 odd strong (or did I mishear an 8 for 80?). Motorcycle guy mentioned/bragged about 300+ but I think that was in reference to how many sensate connections he had as opposed to the size of the cluster. A bit like how Riley can see motorcycle dude, buddha/last airbender, Radagast and the suicide woman and how Wolfgang can see his cluster nemesis

I also thought there'd be some development resolution on the girl Will met/saw. This still seems like it should be a big deal - as it means Will had sensate abilities prior to being "birthed"

and they established with Lito that it isn't merely a case of two sensates meeting can connect irrespective of being "birthed"

. I still tend to think of Will as the prime of the group and maybe that comes with perks? I also still think that girl was a part of Will's cluster.

I also got the vibe that there were more hints that

Wolfgang may eventually become an enemy of his own cluster. He's still the darkest one of them and the most isolated and I fear that his relationship with Kala could undo him if it goes wrong. Being a prisoner of the BPO may not help either. I guess it would be interesting to explore more conflict within a cluster at some stage.

Apologies for the mega post. It's a cures of binge shows and ones that actually have a lot to speculate and discuss!

 

[Ser Quork]

Binged it over Sunday and Monday.  So entertaining although I do agree that the music isn't as good time round.  Utterly maddened by the ending, and no more episodes. Gah!

[red snow]

46 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Binged it over Sunday and Monday.  So entertaining although I do agree that the music isn't as good time round.  Utterly maddened by the ending, and no more episodes. Gah!

Like me, did you click on next only to be circled back to season 1, episode 1 and a WTF? Could have definitely benefitted from having a follow up episode. I just hope this means the creative team are confident of a third season otherwise this will be a very frustrating ending. Given netflix has started to can some shows after two seasons we can't take it for granted.

[Ser Quork]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Like me, did you click on next only to be circled back to season 1, episode 1 and a WTF? Could have definitely benefitted from having a follow up episode. I just hope this means the creative team are confident of a third season otherwise this will be a very frustrating ending. Given netflix has started to can some shows after two seasons we can't take it for granted.

Yes, I did exactly that!

I hope so, too.

[Martini Sigil]

I loved this season... I am just a complete sucker for this show...for me, its an anthem of love, joy, hope and courage... I know that sounds cringe-worthy... but fuck it.... I'm a sap.... although I thought some of the happenings later in the season were a bit gratuitous... the most glaring example:

the wedding scene... Amanita coming to the rescue with the FBI agent, who barges into a church wedding... the dialogue was just.... yuck...in real life, a cop would have nighsticked her and thrown her in cuffs for obstruction.... although Nomi's dad referring to her as his daughter was kind of touching

[Kyoshi]

I also loved this season a lot. My biggest regret is that I watched everything in one night and now it's all swimming in my head incoherently. But a few things did stick in my mind. So far I think Wolfgang, Will, Riley and Nomi have the most obvious archetypes.From Season 1, I've suspected the Riley is something of the 'Mother' of the group, the same way I think Kala would be something like the 'heart/purity' and Will would be the 'father/protector.' It always amazed me that each of the sensates has a unique skill which, when a sensate sibling is in trouble, only they can apply. Lito is the best liar, Nomi is the magic hacker, Wolfgang is the courage*, etc. It's all just a theory (and I'm not a writer so these ideas are all very vague even in my mind, and so, so poorly defined). But this season I became even more invested in the theory when it seemed that Whispers

Spoiler

 

was more interested in finding Riley than he was in finding Will or any of the others; that is, while Will is the one he has a sensate connection with, Riley is and has always been his primary target. Lila's comment about Whispers having a huge boner for that cluster struck something in my mind also.

I don't quite remember the conversation about which sensates can birth other sensates, but I believe that within each cluster, there is only one who can do this. Darryl Hannah was the 'Mother' in her group, the same way I believe Riley is one in hers. IIRC, in the first episode, Whispers evil-monologues in Will's presence and ends the conversation with: "So I can finally get my hands on her!!!!!" IIRC, Last season an Icelander sensate woman told Riley that Daryl Hannah and Naveen Andrews used to birth clusters for the primary purpose of hunting them/using them to hunt others. I think one of Whispers' primary objectives is to find sensate Mothers and use them the same way he used Daryl Hannah. What this will eventually achieve, I have no idea.

Moreover, it seemed very important that Riley walk in the same path as Daryl Hannah by going to Chicago alone. And last season we found out that Riley once lost a child. [The whole revelation now seems more relevant than merely explaining why Riley might have left Iceland, IMHO]. I don't know if this is significant or not, but one of the most notable things thus far is that with the exception of Whispers, none of the sensates we've been shown have children, homo sapiens or otherwise. Could be something, could be nothing.

 

As to why Whispers might want a collection/better understanding of sensates:

Spoiler

there's a scene in the first episode featuring a mind-controlled person killing a lab tech (from my fuzzy memory); there's another scene later in the season where Whispers supposedly mind-controls a gunman; my question is: was there any indication as to whether or not these individuals were sensate or sapiens? Are Whispers and BPO trying to build an army of mind-controlled soldiers for reasons?

Why part of the ending of the last episode made sense to me:

Spoiler

Whispers had no reason to be afraid while in the facility. But Wolfgang, on the other hand, is a prisoner. So it makes sense for Wolfgang to be under much tighter security since he's unwilling precious cargo. The thing that doesn't make sense is how well-coordinated the whole break-in was, how Will made it all the way into the interrogation room without being spotted etc.

*More nonsensical ramblings: I initially thought Sun and Wolfgang had the same kind of role because they're both pretty good in a fight but that ended up being too simplistic because often, when Sun fights, it's born from fear and necessity, while Wolfgang wouldn't shy away from a battle he didn't necessarily need to instigate. And I agree that Wolfgang is still the darkest of them, while Sun has been described as having the "heart of a baby bird."

Weird side note observation: It amazes me that each sensate has a defining skill/trait/personality quirk that is unique to them and the others have traits that subtly mimic that. For example, Capheus loves cheesy action movies, Lito acts in cheesy action movies, Sun's life (and I suppose Wolfgang's) is a cheesy action movie.

I love this show. I agree that it's sappy and all that, but there's just something about the characters that draws you in, and you start believing all kinds of stupid stuff. It brings tears to my eyes at odd times too. I think at this point Sun is my favourite; the actress does a really good job with very little dialogue. Every time one of her prison friends is kind to her you can see a certain sort of softness to her face, and it makes me sad that prison was the first place Sun felt that kind of love and acceptance. I'm another one who likes that all the sensates have healthy, loving, stable relationships with people outside their cluster. And it seems that going forward,

Spoiler

they'll all be romantically linked somehow now that Sun has a righteous detective man who's taken an interest in her plight. I wonder if this will be significant going forward, especially with the Icelander sensate woman having once told Riley that "romantic love within a cluster is the worst kind of narcissism."

Also, I suppose I'm in the minority of people who really liked the soundtrack.