What did Ned really want for Jon's future?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Ned wanted to protect Jon from Robert. He thought when Jon asked to go to the wall with his brother Benjen, it would be a safe place to keep him. But Ned knows the secret of Jon's parentage, aka R+L=J. Did Ned really want Rhaegar's heir to live a solitary life at the wall? Also did Ned have such care and concern regarding Dany and want to keep her and her baby safe from Robert because he knew she was Jon's closest relative on his father's side of the family?

Ned obviously wanted to overthrow Aerys' reign, but would he be ok with the Targaryens coming back to power sans Aerys? 14 years after the usurping he didn't seem to be so impressed with Robert/The Lannisters rule of the seven kingdoms.....

Did he have any agenda (at any point before he died) where he wanted Jon to one day sit the IT or did he hope Jon would make LC at the NW and live out his life happily at the Wall?

Only discuss from Ned's point of view.

[King of Winters]

I think Ned wanted Jon safe at the Wall, so if his parentage did leak out he'd be safe by the laws of the NW. There he's safe from other Kingdom's laws and because he's sworn to celibacy, he'll produce no Targ heir that could endanger the Baratheon claim.

I don't think Ned was the type of person to think about overthrowing his best friend to put his nephew on the IT, where he'd be in even more danger. I think Ned wanted Jon to rise through the ranks of the NW and one day become its LC, which he did.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think Ned wanted Jon safe at the Wall, so if his parentage did leak out he'd be safe by the laws of the NW. There he's safe from other Kingdom's laws and because he's sworn to celibacy, he'll produce no Targ heir that could endanger the Baratheon claim.

I don't think Ned was the type of person to think about overthrowing his best friend to put his nephew on the IT, where he'd be in even more danger. I think Ned wanted Jon to rise through the ranks of the NW and one day become its LC, which he did.

yeah I think that was his plan too, but do you think his mind changed at all after he went to KL and saw the way Robert and the Lannisters were running the kingdom straight into the ground?

[Northbound2.0]

yeah I think that was his plan too, but do you think his mind changed at all after he went to KL and saw the way Robert and the Lannisters were running the kingdom straight into the ground?

This is something, I've often thought of. How much of the Robert/Cersei rule, could he stomach; especially if he thought he could place someone better on the throne. At the very least, I'm sure he thought about it and I'm sure he said "this is what we fought and so many died for?" to himself. But, then again; would Ned go against Stannis and his rightful claim after the death of Robert.

[A bowl of brown]

I think before Robert came to Winterfell h probably wanted Jon to be one of Robb's advisors or to hold a keep in his name, but after that he might have changed to thinking he would be safer at the Wall. He seems pretty surprised when Luwin tells him Jon wants to join the NW.

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

It would seem a little out of character for Ned, who takes vows pretty seriously, to send Jon to the wall temporarily only to have him exonerated later. Wouldn't it have made more sense to tell Jon to wait or assign him some other duty to bide the time?

Plus, at the time that Jon announces his intention to join the NW, Ned is still operating under the assumption that Robert's kids are indeed his own. Are you saying that he might have been planning to overthrow the heirs of the king (and friend) he helped install in the future?

As for Dany, I don't know if Jon had any bearing on Ned's attitude towards her. Maybe, but not insofar as being a secret Targ loyalist waiting for the right time/opportunity.

I don't think Ned's the kind of guy with big ambitions for himself or his family. So if Lyanna asked him to care for Jon and keep him safe, my bet is that Ned would do that, but he wouldn't see any reason to get Jon involved in IT business, especially as doing so would basically necessitate war. With his own friend's family, which he assumed was legitimate at the time.

Also, this is a weaker point, but I remember Jon (when he's being consoled by Sam about being sent to stewart duty) reflecting on the fact that Robb often attended his father in matters involving governance of Winterfell. The implication seems to be that, due to Jon's supposed bastardy, he didn't attend these meetings. Wouldn't Ned have taken more care in Jon's ruling education if he meant him to eventually sit the IT?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I think before Robert came to Winterfell h probably wanted Jon to be one of Robb's advisors or to hold a keep in his name, but after that he might have changed to thinking he would be safer at the Wall. He seems pretty surprised when Luwin tells him Jon wants to join the NW.

That's true, So the Wall wasn't even part of Ned's plan, just something that presented itself. Was there a conversation between Ned and Robert about killing all Targaryens before Jon left for the wall?? I don't think so (but could be wrong).

How could Ned want his dead sisters only child to go live at the wall for his entire life?

[Dany Girl]

I don't think Ned wanted Jon at the Wall at all, that was Jon's choice and Ned let him go. I think Ned was very short sighted for all his children, especially Jon. None of his kids were fostered out or had plans to do so, none had any betrothals set up, and Robb and Jon were past the point where arrangements should have been being made. Arya is allowed to run around basically unchecked, which is not acceptable for a female in their society, good luck marrying her off!

I think Ned was so concerned for the here and now of keeping Jon safe that he never set up a future for him. Marrying him to one of the Mormont girls would have been best in reality, they'd keep the Mormont name, so his bastard name wouldn't matter, and the Mormont would love marrying into the Starks.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

It would seem a little out of character for Ned, who takes vows pretty seriously, to send Jon to the wall temporarily only to have him exonerated later. Wouldn't it have made more sense to tell Jon to wait or assign him some other duty to bide the time?

Plus, at the time that Jon announces his intention to join the NW, Ned is still operating under the assumption that Robert's kids are indeed his own. Are you saying that he might have been planning to overthrow the heirs of the king (and friend) he helped install in the future?

As for Dany, I don't know if Jon had any bearing on Ned's attitude towards them. Maybe, but not insofar as being a secret Targ loyalist waiting for the right time/opportunity.

I don't think Ned's the kind of guy with big ambitions for himself or his family. So if Lyanna asked him to care for Jon and keep him safe, my bet is that Ned would do that, but he wouldn't see any reason to get Jon involved in IT business, especially as doing so would basically necessitate war. With his own friend's family, which he assumed was legitimate at the time.

yes that's all very true, I am just wondering if he started to change his mind after learning they were not roberts kids and that the lannisters were actually ruling the kingdom.

No I dont think he wanted to overthrow robert at any point. but if Aerys hadnt burned his father and brother he might not have wanted to overthrow Aerys at all to begin with. Plus, my other point, is that he doesnt seem to have a problem with the whole Targ family, only the reign of the Mad King right?

[King of Winters]

yeah I think that was his plan too, but do you think his mind changed at all after he went to KL and saw the way Robert and the Lannisters were running the kingdom straight into the ground?

No, Ned isn't the type of man to try and overthrow his friends throne even if he did see corruption all around. The only reason he would is when Robert died and the throne belonged to Stannis.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

No, Ned isn't the type of man to try and overthrow his friends throne even if he did see corruption all around. The only reason he would is when Robert died and the throne belonged to Stannis.

Do you think, when Ned told Jon he would come to the wall and they would talk, that he planned to tell Jon who his parents were?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

I think that Ned wanted Jon to be safe fullstop. He never said anything about sending Jon to the Wall, that was Cat, who tho she had no right, who didn't wanted Jon to WF and Maester Luwin. Sure Jon asked for it after he saw how unwelcomed he was at WF. But Ned made clear that he wanted him to be close to Robb.

“Jon must go,” she said now.

“He and Robb are close,” Ned said. “I had hoped …”

“He cannot stay here,” Catelyn said, cutting him off. “He is your son, not mine. I will not have him.” It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell.

The look Ned gave her was anguished. “You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard’s name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned.” Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband’s eyes. “They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself.”

“And none of them has ever been seen at court!” Ned blazed. “The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—” His fury was on him. He might have said more, and worse, but Maester Luwin cut in.

“Another solution presents itself,” he said, his voice quiet. “Your brother Benjen came to me about Jon a few days ago. It seems the boy aspires to take the black.” Ned looked shocked. “He asked to join the Night’s Watch?”

Catelyn said nothing. Let Ned work it out in his own mind; her voice would not be welcome now. Yet gladly would she have kissed the maester just then. His was the perfect solution. Benjen Stark was a Sworn Brother. Jon would be a son to him, the child he would never have. And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for Winterfell.

Maester Luwin said, “There is great honor in service on the Wall, my lord.”

“And even a bastard may rise high in the Night’s Watch,” Ned reflected. Still, his voice was troubled. “Jon is so young. If he asked this when he was a man grown, that would be one thing, but a boy of fourteen…”

and that is when I started to hate Cat.

[Lord Voldemort's Toes]

yes that's all very true, I am just wondering if he started to change his mind after learning they were not roberts kids and that the lannisters were actually ruling the kingdom.

No I dont think he wanted to overthrow robert at any point. but if Aerys hadnt burned his father and brother he might not have wanted to overthrow Aerys at all to begin with. Plus, my other point, is that he doesnt seem to have a problem with the whole Targ family, only the reign of the Mad King right?

Yeah, he's definately not a complete Targ hater like Robert. And no, he wasn't really pleased with the job Robert was doing (nor the level of Lannister infiltration he allowed to happen), but if I remember correctly he kept holding out hope for his friend and was determined to do what he could to curb the problematic issues of his reign. But after all is revealed to Ned about the kids being bastard Lannisters (or whatever their bastard names would be...), it seems to me that Ned had little time to think of anything else besides his immediate problems. Plus, why would he have backed Stannis when the perfect opportunity for regime change presented itself upon Robert's death?

[Suzanna Stormborn]

Yeah, he's definately not a complete Targ hater like Robert. And no, he wasn't really pleased with the job Robert was doing (nor the level of Lannister infiltration he allowed to happen), but if I remember correctly he kept holding out hope for his friend and was determined to do what he could to curb the problematic issues of his reign. But after all is revealed to Ned about the kids being bastard Lannisters, it seems to me that Ned had little time to think of anything else besides his immediate problems. Plus, why would he have backed Stannis when the perfect opportunity for regime change presented itself upon Robert's death?

he did back Stannis, so Ned definitely did not want to overthrow the Baratheons with Jon. But do you think he planned to tell Jon who his parents were when he got back to WF and visited Jon at the wall.

Also, When Ned is imprisoned at KL I remember him doing some serious soul searching about everything. maybe he realized then he had made a lot of mistakes?

[Maester Pedant]

If Jon is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son, I doubt Ned had any plans of revealing his identity to the world. He probably would have told Jon, and just Jon. Being Rhaegar's son would only put him in danger. Putting him on the throne was not an option. Not only would that risk his life for an aim of doubtful value, but it also would be almost impossible to prove that he was more than just Eddard Stark's bastard son.

If he is just Eddard Stark's bastard son, then a life as one of his brother's bannermen or as a Brother of the Night's Watch are perfectly honourable alternatives. But I'm sure Ned would have prefered the former to the latter. Being a Brother of the Night's Watch is so definitive.

[King of Winters]

Do you think, when Ned told Jon he would come to the wall and they would talk, that he planned to tell Jon who his parents were?

Definitely.

[Minsc]

I think that Ned wanted Jon to be safe fullstop. He never said anything about sending Jon to the Wall, that was Cat,

Funny, how your quote doesn't have anything about Catelyn saying anything about sending Jon to the Wall.

[The Wolves]

Do you think, when Ned told Jon he would come to the wall and they would talk, that he planned to tell Jon who his parents were?

That was in the show, Ned never told Jon he would come to talk to him at the wall.

[Djinn]

I don't think Ned wanted Jon at the Wall at all, that was Jon's choice and Ned let him go. I think Ned was very short sighted for all his children, especially Jon. None of his kids were fostered out or had plans to do so, none had any betrothals set up, and Robb and Jon were past the point where arrangements should have been being made. Arya is allowed to run around basically unchecked, which is not acceptable for a female in their society, good luck marrying her off!

I think Ned was so concerned for the here and now of keeping Jon safe that he never set up a future for him. Marrying him to one of the Mormont girls would have been best in reality, they'd keep the Mormont name, so his bastard name wouldn't matter, and the Mormont would love marrying into the Starks.

I fully subcribe to this. Ned might have hoped that Jon would be Robb's castellean or Captain of the guard but ignored the tensions that the lie created within his family. He does this to all his children.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

I don't think Ned wanted Jon at the Wall at all, that was Jon's choice and Ned let him go. I think Ned was very short sighted for all his children, especially Jon. None of his kids were fostered out or had plans to do so, none had any betrothals set up, and Robb and Jon were past the point where arrangements should have been being made. Arya is allowed to run around basically unchecked, which is not acceptable for a female in their society, good luck marrying her off!

I think Ned was so concerned for the here and now of keeping Jon safe that he never set up a future for him. Marrying him to one of the Mormont girls would have been best in reality, they'd keep the Mormont name, so his bastard name wouldn't matter, and the Mormont would love marrying into the Starks.

You are really on to something here, I hadnt really thought before about how Ned was not really the best planner for his children. He has no control over Arya and Bran at all. Which is why I am wondering if he planned to tell Jon who his parents were. Cuz lets face it, telling someone that would possibly ignite a spark within him that could not be stopped. Would Jon have wanted to go to the wall if he found out he was Rhaegars son? Look at how quickly Robb went to war at the age of 15, then took the title of King in the North (i'm not saying Robb was at fault, only that he had a lot of balls and was very strong-willed). Wouldn't it be reasonable to think Jon might react in a similar fashion learning info like this, like it was his duty to do something to revenge Lyanna and Rhaegar?