The "Malazan Book of the Fallen" thread.

[Werthead]

Nice map, Wert, but given the tundra nature of the Edur lands, shouldn't the Lether continent be further north?

The tundra was created by the Jaghut freezing over the landmass, so that's why it's still frozen there. Same with the Jheck icefields on Quon Tali, which are just south of the equator.

The Imass are great but they've been out of the plot now since Memories of Ice. Them coming back would be pretty cool.

The Karsa section at the start of House of Chains is pretty good and I like the character a lot. His stuff in The Bonehunters cracked me up ("I think he's raping someone!" inexplicably bellows a 7C commander hearing the sounds of brutal combat between Karsa and the demon inside the fort).

Stego: will be very interested in your opinion on Memories of Ice. House of Chains, however, will probably generate a withering put-down review of the sort that you are so great at. Actually looking forward to that as well.

I have been considering putting my (frankly not that great, but still) mapmaking skills to work on a Westeros world map. Will have to wait until I have a few good hours to plough into it.

[koudoulis]

ok , ignoring green pig ( its not personal dude , just cant mess with my head right now)

Erikson books have been a great surprise from me . Its the sheer vastness of his worldbuilding and complicated plotlines that leave me entirely aghast...

He is for me now something different than an ordinary author, he is a damn good storyteller and he tells a story I fuckin wanna listen to the end. How is he possible to contain all those information in a human head is beyond me . so i am not inclined to judge his prose ( which is good and gets better ) the problems in editing and the mistakes , i just want to know what happens next or to express it better I AM DESPERATE TO KNOW

The main thing about the malazan books that i need to tone is that the books demand a reread . they demand it in a way that i ve never seen before . propably cause its a so storydriven read the speed with which your brain is bombarbed with information is so large that i personally , at least , miss more than a half of it the first time through . Whats more important is that i found the pleasure of a reread a grand one . i enjoyed so much clearing things up and noticing how the plots are interwoven and he gives you all kind of information and tips that i was unable to comprehend at the time. as a distinct example i remember that the first time i understood who shadowthrone was , was at the second book while in my reread i saw hints all over the first book and it was plain written in front of me on page 112 of gardens!!! how could i miss it ? and its only a minor example ..

thats for now

[Ten Minute Timer]

I am totally unable to discuss Erikson at the appropriate level of detail, the max post length on here is a mere 100k characters or something , but I'll make a few points.

Memories of Ice is the best, and I'm not sure whether I just mean of Erikson's books or not.

The series redefines epic. I thought Asoiaf was impressive in scope, but Mbotf blows it away. If Tolkien could have merged the Silmarillion and the Lord of The Rings into one comprehensive, logical series in a fixed time frame, it would just about give the scale and complexity of Erikson's universe a run for it's money.

Midnight Tides is the only book I've ever wanted to start re-reading as soon as I'd finished it. I may forgive Chal one day for not letting me do so.

In ten years time, people will realise just how good it is. Assuming he doesn't follow the trend of so many F&SF authors currently and f up the ending.

I love books that make me think. Erikson makes my brain melt.

[Relic]

I like Erikson but i dont get everyone's love of MoI. If i had to rate the books MoI comes in 4th, behind MT and the horrible GotM. i think Deadhouse Gates was by far Erikson's best effort.

[saint777]

I like Erikson but i dont get everyone's love of MoI. If i had to rate the books MoI comes in 4th, behind MT and the horrible GotM. i think Deadhouse Gates was by far Erikson's best effort.

I agree that MOI is the weakest of the first three novels in the series I've read so far. I also agree on DEADHOUSE GATES, however I really liked GOTM. GOTM has so many memorable kick ass sequences IMO. From the Jhag taking on five dragons to the rooftop assassin battle to Rallick Nom's duel with the councilman to the rooftop chase to the opening battle of Pale there are just too many great scenes to consider it mediocre. I think GOTM is one of the best fantasy books that I've read that actually transcends the mediocre level of writing. The writing is much better in HOC and Karsa and Torvald are a hoot.

[Eurytus]

Another thing I love about Malazan, is the T'Lan Imass. They're just the epitome of "cool". They're smart, mysterious, and they kick serious amounts of ass.

Argh, I can't get enough.

I love the Fokrul Assail. Each appearance of one has been interesting, I love their concept of "bringing peace" and I just love the image of them with their extra joints. I can't wait to see more of them.

[Calibandar]

Kraken:

I think the biggest reason I don't enjoy the story as much as others is that I highly prefer character-driven stuff. Erikson CAN write great characters (I love Itkovian and Duiker, and there's others like Lorn and DG Felisin that are also pretty good), but the vast majority of them -- and there are alot -- are either bland, superflous, or make ridiculous decisions that don't really make any sense but are made to drive the plot in the direction he needs it to go.

Yep. 100% the same with me. Plus I don't think his writing style is very pleasant to read, seems sort of rough and incoherent. Stylistically he's not a patch on someone like Kay or Martin.

[HokieStone]

So I should keep reading then? I started it once back around Christmas, and couldn't get past the first chapter. I started it again recently due to a lack of anything else lying around - I'm 2/3 the way through GOTM, and I had pretty much decided to forgo the rest of the series. First, the goofy names get to me - some people have "real" names, and others have goofy pro-wrestling names like "Whiskeyjack". Second, I like my Gods like ASOIAF - people worship them, but we don't really see any direct interaction. Here, you have Gods directly interacting with half the populace it seems. Third, I just got to the point where the one-eyed guy rides up to save the Adjunct, and that other creature burst from the ground. They something to the effect that he's 300,000 years old. Really? Three HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS old? Give me a break. That's just way too over the top. And by the way, we've been introduced to several non-human races so far, but not a single description.

I know that what books people like are a matter of personal taste, but to even begin to compare this series to ASOIAF is laughable, IMO. (I know, I know, I'm only 2/3 through book 1).

Let me just add - I did like the second section of the book - set in the city (Darujistan, or something), with the assassins and thieves on the rooftops and such. That part, in general, seemed more grounded, and lot less "over the top".

[Relic]

That part, in general, seemed more grounded, and lot less "over the top".

You'd be better suited not reading on i think.

[Xray the Enforcer]

I fear I'm in the same quarter as HokieStone and Calibander. I just got to the point where Lorn confronts Tattersail over the Scouring of the Shire Mouse, and it was so unartfully written I almost just stopped right there. I mean, we're talking freshman-comp level skillz, it was so contrived and bad. And I also hate 75% of the names Erikson picks -- some straight from the ranks of the WWE, others would be more at home in a children's book, yet others more suitable to pre-op trannie hustlers...and then a couple which are actually decent. Like I said, though, I am gonna get through Deadhouse Gates.

I will say this: the worldbuilding is pretty top-notch awesome. Kicks the crap outta Bakker (if it doesn't result in terrible violence or horrific death, I won't describe it) and Martin (humans rool).

[Werthead]

Well the names are not their 'proper' names, they are given to the soldiers in training based on personal characteristics. It's rather cheesy that you actually forget this later on; for half of Memories of Ice I kept wondering why the soldier 'Blend' found it so easy to disappear if someone's looking for her (d'oh!).

But agreed, if you don't like frequent involvement of the gods in the story, you may be better giving up. If you liked the rooftop stuff in Daraujhistan though, I'd recommend you onwards to The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch.

[IheartTesla]

The fact that there were "rules" for most mortals/other races to gain Ascendency and godhood was what got me hooked into the series in the first place, to be honest. Their consistent meddling in affairs doesnt bother me so much, but that being said, there are other aspects to the universe that bother me, especially stuff like Karsa's uberness (I want to slap him silly).

I too felt that HoC and MT were disappointments, but Bonehunters was a return to form.

[Ran]

Karsa Orlong.... argh.

The first, IMO, of Erikson's most notable mis-steps.

[Werthead]

I think Karsa is an amusing, if one-note, comic fantasy creation (particularly in The Bonehunters, where his comical aspects seem to be slightly ramped up). However, his presence in the books does somewhat distort the tone I think Erikson is aiming for.

[Sebastian]

I stopped reading the series because of Karsa Orlong. I think I decided to do it when

SPOILER:

the new and improved Hounds of Shadow were introduced, which were so powerful in the past that an entire continent was uninhabitable only because they lived there, and then Karsa killed them just like that. (Could be I'm wrong about the thing with the continent, it's been a long time since I read House of Chains. Actually, I hope I'm wrong because it's almost as bad as a chicken that was not a chicken, and I don't think/hope Erikson is that bad.)

[Werthead]

This may not make you feel any better but the Hounds of Shadow are not actually the Hounds that did the job. They are the shadows of the hounds that did the deed (whose correct name is the Hounds of Darkness). Unfortunately this doesn't help because IIRC it's the two Hounds who have been reunited with their shadows that Karsa kills.

Certainly I don't think Erikson is for readers who like a realistic amount of violence or magic in their books. I feel the preposterousness of some aspects of the plot is just part of the reason for just sitting back and enjoying it (this also explains my teenage appreciation of the similarly unfeasible Robotech TV and book series).

[pat5150]

Hey! I was a huge Robotech fan as well!

You're not alone!

Patrick

[delete this account pls]

I found Karsa a lot easier to stomach in the Bonehunters. His storyline had a lot of lighter touches, and was less serious than in HoC. The one-man castle assault that Werthead mentioned upthread (He's probably raping someone!) was particularly amusing.

His whole "civilisation sucks, barbarity rulez" philosophy is a bit trite and tiresome though.

[Werthead]

Awesome! And they're making a new series as well.

Actually, in a vague effort to derail impending off-topicness, I always thought that the only possible way that the MBF will ever get on screen is if it's adapted into an anime. In fact, it is nearly screaming out to be so adapted. I wonder how well the books sell in Japan, if they are available over there yet?

[Arakasi]

Why is it such a surprise Karsa kills the hounds? Sure they were uber in the past. But look at what K'rul says to Raeste (sp) in the very first book. That the jaghut was unmatched in his time, but now there are mortals that can kill you. The world has changed from the past. Instead of being the gods and elder races, the rest of civilization has caught up. Personally I enjoy the Karsa stuff quite a lot. Sure he is a force of nature, but I like him for that. The main part if any I've had with the series lately is a bit too much of the military squad stuff. While there was some amusing stuff in HOC and TBH, for the most part I find the Fiddler squad stuff the least enjoyable. I'd much rather read about the other humans as well as elder races and such.