Jump to content

Tyrion hatred


Brightstar_

Recommended Posts

Sorry about the he-part, didn't know. As for evil, I didn't really mean evil as in "Ramsay-evil", perhaps I have a different concept of the seriousness of the word evil than you do. English is not my native language.

It's not mine either. :) English is my third language.

"Evil" vs "good" is Biblical, y'know? I was using "good" as in "good" vs "bad". Bad people can do good things but evil people cannot, see?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find his humor to be grating on a reread. He's trying too hard and it's obviously a defense mechanism. I actually think Jaime of all people is funnier. As WK said, he ends up being a rapist in the fifth book. He wanted to have it both ways with Shae: Either she's a prostitute he's paying, or she's his loyal lady love, but she can't be both. And he was shocked, shocked, to discover that a prostitute didn't stay loyal to him when the money ran out.



His deformity aside, he's a member of the wealthiest, most powerful family in the country. He can do whatever he wants, buy whatever he wants and go wherever he wants, and yet it's just "poor pitiful me, oh don't I have it so hard because Daddy didn't love me."



I wouldn't go so far as saying he molested Sansa JK He totally molested Sansa, and his pity party for himself ("Oh the forcibly married political prisoner whose family has been destroyed didn't kneel down for me, how awful for me!!!") was atrocious. He also had no qualms about using Sansa's birthright to try to buy Bronn off when he needed it.



And he's not exactly the political genius so many people on here weirdly think he is. If he were nearly that smart or that talented or that shrewd, he wouldn't have gotten played like a fiddle by both Varys and Baelish, he wouldn't have been successfully framed for murder and he wouldn't have ended up on the run in Essos. It's because he got played, badly, that he was in that situation at all. He's so clever that his immediate plan to get out of virtually any jam is, "I'll pay my way out of it." I wasn't aware that whipping out a checkbook was a stroke of genius.



Tyrion's appeal is a matter of context, it seems to me. When he's surrounded by Joffrey, Tywin, Cersei, Boros, Meryn, etc., it's easier to like him and root for him and think he's OK. Get him on his own though and you can really see that he's a self-pitying, moping narcissist and was so all along. Not that he can't do anything to redeem himself, but I can absolutely see how so many people are sick and tired of him by now. And I say this as someone who loves Peter Dinklage and thinks he's done a fine job playing Tyrion.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

So why don't you point out which parts of David Selig's post are "twisting truth's" or "half-truth" and why?

The breaking of Marillion's fingers is a bit cruell I'll grant that much, but Marillion himself is not really a great person himself ( He did actually try to rape Sansa later on, not "Tyrion-rape" her, ACTUAL rape). Worked tirelessly to keep Joffrey on the throne? He recognizes that Joffrey is a terrible king and wanted to try and place Tommen on the throne instead, he only threatened to beat Tommen to scare Cersei, he'd never actually beat Tommen. He removed Pycelle because Pycelle is Cersei's creature and he needed him out of the way to be safe and to be able to rule better ( which we all know he shouldn't leave to Cersei). If you read the book carefully, you will know that it is stated that the 100 men he sent to free Jaime very nearly succeeded, and he did not think about them again because as you might have noticed he was a bit preoccupied with other matters. Again, he "blackmailed" Lancel to have control over Cersei, who actually wants to remove or hurt him. He is needed in control to save the city (which he eventually did, mind you never forget that he saved an entire city). I don't think he would have ever hurt Lancel either in any case. As for the mountainclans, yes he did use them to survive, and now they are armed. If anyone is to blame for that, it's Lysa's shitty governing of the Vale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not mine either. :) English is my third language.

"Evil" vs "good" is Biblical, y'know? I was using "good" as in "good" vs "bad". Bad people can do good things but evil people cannot, see?

yeah I know what it means, I was just using it in a less ominous way ^^ And I don't believe that actual evil people who "cannot do good things" actually exist, but that's another discussion altogether.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wouldn't go so far as saying he molested Sansa, but his pity party for himself ("Oh the forcibly married political prisoner whose family has been destroyed didn't kneel down for me, how awful for me!!!") was atrocious. He also had no qualms about using Sansa's birthright to try to buy Bronn off when he needed it.

Not to ruin a good thing but he did molest her.

When he hopped up on the bed and put his hand on her breast, Sansa could not help but shudder. She lay with her eyes closed, every muscle tense, dreading what might come next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So...people hate him because they're "over him." It's a reactionary contrarian opinion brought on by boredom and being too long with the series/possibly too many re-reads.

That kind of ignores the "why" of being over him. This isn't being over flared jeans or Uggs. It's not liking someone anymore when that person does something like, you know, rape. Do you not agree that I'm within my right to say, "Well Tyrion just raped a woman, I'm over him"? Is that me being overly contrarian?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That kind of ignores the "why" of being over him. This isn't being over flared jeans or Uggs. It's not liking someone anymore when that person does something like, you know, rape. Do you not agree that I'm within my right to say, "Well Tyrion just raped a woman, I'm over him"? Is that me being overly contrarian?

Tell me, how do you rape a whore you have paid for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fuck it, this thread'll get locked anyway.

  1. Raped a slave girl in Dance.

Forcibly married and molested a twelve year old prisoner.

...How did he molest Sansa ? Also, he didn't have much choice but to marry her...

Tyrion obviously isn't all white, but he is better than at leat 95% of the characters in ASOIAF. Tywin deserved to be killed by Tyrion, anyone saying the opposite has a morality problem. Tywin was putting Tyrion, his own son, to death for something that had no proofs. For Shae, it's more complicated, did she deserve to die, that is more or less arguable since she lied so that Tyrion and Sansa would be killed. She didn't have much choice, but lying to protect yourself instead of saying the truth to save two innocents, one of them a 12(13?) years old girl, is in my opinion a very bad thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tell me, how do you rape a whore you have paid for?

You mean a whore whom Tyrion himself thinks of as having been captured by a slaver (read: she's a slave) and a whore whose back is covered in whip scars (read: she's not doing this of her own free will)? What on earth in that exchange makes you think that that girl was doing anything of her own free will, that she was choosing to engage in prostitution? Absolutely disgusting. And when he sees the scars, he isn't horrified with what he's done or sympathetic for the girl. He just thinks that she's "dead" and that he's "fucked a corpse." But hey, what do I know, I'm just being contrarian about this vile little shit for its own sake, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The breaking of Marillion's fingers is a bit cruell I'll grant that much, but Marillion himself is not really a great person himself ( He did actually try to rape Sansa later on, not "Tyrion-rape" her, ACTUAL rape).

So what? Tyrion had no idea about that because Marillion hasn't done anything wrong at this point.

Worked tirelessly to keep Joffrey on the throne? He recognizes that Joffrey is a terrible king and wanted to try and place Tommen on the throne instead

Yes, he did work tirelessly for that. Just because Bronn suggested that Tommen might be better and Tyrion considered it for a second doesn't change it.

He removed Pycelle because Pycelle is Cersei's creature and he needed him out of the way to be safe and to be able to rule better ( which we all know he shouldn't leave to Cersei)

Pycelle was the only man on the small council actually loyal to the Lannisters and Tywin's creature first. You know, the guy who put Tyrion in charge and the source of all his power. Removing him and making an enemy out of him was stupid, treating him so badly (the shaving of the beard, the black cells, the way he was arrested and threatened half to death, etc) was cruel and petty in typical Tyrion fashion.

If you read the book carefully, you will know that it is stated that the 100 men he sent to free Jaime very nearly succeeded, and he did not think about them again because as you might have noticed he was a bit preoccupied with other matters.

Wow, he was preoccupied, this must really be a great source of relief for all these Lannister soldiers who were hanged or spend an year in a dungeon because Tyrion risked a 100 of them on a very long shot to get his brother back. And yes, it was a long shot, even if they had made it out of Riverrun, they had to somehow go through hundreds of miles of enemy territory without being caught.

Again, he "blackmailed" Lancel to have control over Cersei, who actually wants to remove or hurt him. He is needed in control to save the city (which he eventually did, mind you never forget that he saved an entire city)

Because Stannis would've destroyed the city? This often repeated claim that Tyrion saved the city is absurd since Stannis had no intention of destroying it or killing the occupants bar a few of these living in the Red Keep who deserve it for the most part. besides, it was Tywin and the tyrells who did most of the work, without them the city would've been taken by Stannis (which would've been a good thing overall).

And blackmailing Lancel didn't help him defend the city in any way, it was just a power game between Tyrion and his sister.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You mean a whore whom Tyrion himself thinks of as having been captured by a slaver (read: she's a slave) and a whore whose back is covered in whip scars (read: she's not doing this of her own free will)? What on earth in that exchange makes you think that that girl was doing anything of her own free will, that she was choosing to engage in prostitution? Absolutely disgusting.

I thought you meant the whore he was with before Jorah captured him, my bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, he was preoccupied, this must really be a great source of relief for all these Lannister soldiers who were hanged or spend an year in a dungeon because Tyrion risked a 100 of them on a very long shot to get his brother back. And yes, it was a long shot, even if they had made it out of Riverrun, they had to somehow go through hundreds of miles of enemy territory without being caught.

I guess Robb Stark must be the Father Of All Evil because he sent 2000 soldiers to die during a war, compared to Tyrion's 100.

Totally invalid argument. "He's a bad person because he sent soldiers to die during a war".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is the one he was with before Jorah captured him.

I guess you could say that Tyrion is pretty pessimistic about the entire world at this point. There is nothing he could do to save her, and she would get fucked anyhow, so what does it matter if he fucks her too?

I'm guessing that his line of thought. Not saying this is a good thing or defending it in any way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He is not by any definition a "good person" anymore, but I daresay almost noone really is. Plus after the crap he's gone through I don't mind him making a few questionable decisions, and still love him.


Many of the hate arguments are just invalid IMO " He raped Sansa" etc etc...


Pre-DwD Tyrion was still arguably a good person, murdering his father and realizing how his brother betrayed him really changed him.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...