LordFirkraag Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Septon Meribald didnot need much education as far as we know. What he knows is enough for him to perform the duties of a Septon while roaming the Riverlands. I wanted to say that High Sparrow looks like a normal and simple septon like Meribald, but what he does in KL suggests quite the opposite. Meribald is never going to rise to the position of "High Sparrow", any more than an uneducated pamphleteer is going to become the next Lenin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I agree with Pycelle. I cant think of a good reason for him yet but as I explained for Bowen, there is a good possibility that he got that phrase from Eastwatch. If these are the only two examples which under the current evidences does not seem to fit with other almost 40 examples indicating a pattern, I go with the pattern as an engineer and try to look for a better explanation for the irregulars. I've probably said 'just so' and 'not so' thousands of times in my life before reading ASOIAF. I did not pick them up from anywhere: they arise naturally in using the English language. As I say, one instance doesn't need explanation and doesn't bear interpretation: it does not fit a pattern, it isn't 'irregular', it's just a thing someone said that stands in isolation from the other instances in the books. It can be ignored, unless there is a separate, compelling reason to take it as significant. Take an analogy: say you have a park where, in one flower bed, every second flower is red. Then in another flower bed, there is a single red flower. The former is a pattern, the latter is not part of that pattern. It's just a red flower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm gonna agree with hardhome. If true, is there a purpose to "just so" indicating an Essos connection? also, I think the theory is stronger if you only go for "just so", instead of also lumping "not so" as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I am aware of the hundreds of examples of "not so good", "not so bad", "not so insert any adjective" in the books. The ones I gave (not so, is it not so, is that not so) are specific to these people. The latter two phrases are only a question form of "not so". Still, the use of "not so" in a questioning manner isn't unheard of in english language. It's a bit archaic today, but it's not something that stands out as odd in the same way as the use of "just so" is in the books. The former is used by GRRM sparingly and in "normal" fashion. The latter is used repeatedly, as a "catchphrase", and in a manner that can't really be found in standard english language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 I've probably said 'just so' and 'not so' thousands of times in my life before reading ASOIAF. I did not pick them up from anywhere: they arise naturally in using the English language. As I say, one instance doesn't need explanation and doesn't bear interpretation: it does not fit a pattern, it isn't 'irregular', it's just a thing someone said that stands in isolation from the other instances in the books. It can be ignored, unless there is a separate, compelling reason to take it as significant.Take an analogy: say you have a park where, in one flower bed, every second flower is red. Then in another flower bed, there is a single red flower. The former is a pattern, the latter is not part of that pattern. It's just a red flower. But the instances show that “just so” and its exact opposite “not so” are extensively used when speaking the Common Tongue by those who are used to think in their own High Valyrian dialect. There are some irregular ones but all of them were at a position to be influenced by the Free Cities. In case of Dany, we know that her High Valyrian smells Tyroshi because she spent some time there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrafntýr Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I think that if a character uses the phrase just once it could be chance. But I think you're right, OP, that regular use of the phrase seems linked to the East, i.e. that it's probably safe to say that a character who uses it regularly is probably from Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The "just so" part is interesting. The "not so" would be better if you stuck to only incidences of "not so" without additional words. "Is that not so?" is a pretty customary question in a medieval (or heck, even a Regency or Victorian) setting. It's common for the time. "Not so" by itself fits better with a possible connection to "just so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre Gateau Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A simple response to all this; "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh" :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green Griffin Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I always thought there was something to these phrases, I'm just not sure what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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