Cubarey Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 "While Jon might have had a rough time in Dorne in his first days and weeks in the world, have had to change wetnurses and a hard pressed journey north in the first months of his life. " Nothing we have suggests Jon had a rough time in Dorne, L likely contacted the fever during child bearing or soon after neither would give Jn the fever. A Wet nurse was likely present soon after the birth and nothing in the books suggests suffered from switching wet nurses. a baby would likely be carried in a baskenet or in the arms of a wet nurse during the trip to Dorne, it is not a difficult trip for those older traveling on horseback and fail to see how the trip would negatively effect a young baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Nothing we have suggests Jon had a rough time in Dorne, L likely contacted the fever during child bearing or soon after neither would give Jn the fever. A Wet nurse was likely present soon after the birth and nothing in the books suggests suffered from switching wet nurses. a baby would likely be carried in a baskenet or in the arms of a wet nurse during the trip to Dorne, it is not a difficult trip for those older traveling on horseback and fail to see how the trip would negatively effect a young baby. None of what you wrote is in the books. I know babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Even two babies both born on the same day after a pregnancy of 9 months can differ in size. It's not only the period after the pregnancy that determines such, but also the pregnancy itself. For example the room the child has in the uterus can affect the child's size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Even two babies both born on the same day after a pregnancy of 9 months can differ in size. It's not only the period after the pregnancy that determines such, but also the pregnancy itself. For example the room the child has in the uterus can affect the child's size. Yes. I keep forgetting I live in a land of peace and prosperity that once provided wellfare for all. So I don't know any recently born children of starved or severely mistreated or raped mothers personally. Nor babies of mothers who had a pregnancy in a state of constant fear for live.But I have heard the stories and seen my parents's/grandparents' war generations who developed misshapened bodies and hoarding-mass-fat-eating habits. If that was to be any rule, then Jon Snow certainly is no abuse-/rape-/war-/fear- or starvation-pregnancy child :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yes. I keep forgetting I live in a land of peace and prosperity that once provided wellfare for all. So I don't know any recently born children of starved or severely mistreated or raped mothers personally. Nor babies of mothers who had a pregnancy in a state of constant fear for live.But I have heard the stories and seen my parents's/grandparents' war generations who developed misshapened bodies and hoarding-mass-fat-eating habits. If that was to be any rule, then Jon Snow certainly is no abuse-/rape-/war-/fear- or starvation-pregnancy child :-) O, that was not even what I was going for :) I just meant that genetics is a part of what determines the size and weight of a new-born baby (after a full-term pregnancy). Also, as I said, the size of the uterus, meaning how far the uterus is able to stretch out during the pregnancy. Usually it stretches out as the child continues to grow. Should the uterus be unable to stretch further, the growth of the child will be halted, resulting in a smaller child. There are also lots of medical conditions that can influence a child's size during birth. That said, I think that if there was anything to determine Jon's size during birth, and it turns out he was indeed smaller, it most likely had something to do with genetics, and not with any medical conditions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 it most likely had something to do with genetics, and not with any medical conditions... Did I read "Rhaegar" there somewhere? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 During the Robellion, the Stark in Winterfell was Benjen Stark. "Probably around about the time Ned returned from the south and Catelyn and Robb and Jon took up residence." according to an SSM, he joined the Night's Watch. Or "within a few months of Ned's returning. The reason being that there always was a Stark at Winterfell, so he had to stay there until Ned returned." according to another SSM. That's fine with me. 5 years after that Balon Greyjoy mixed up Robert's reign and Eddard went to war again. Who was the Stark in Winterfell at that time?The five-year-old Robb Stark. Really? Seriously so. I found this question somehow insightful and allowed myself to ask and answer it in one go. Just in case I got it wrong somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Just briefly because this isn't really the appropriate place for a lengthy debate-- it's not the size of the babies that would be at issue. Rather the development, physical and cognitive milestones that come at very specific times for all children regardless of their relative size. A six month old baby may rival a twelve month old in size for instance, but their abilities would be nothing similar. These differences would be apparent at a difference of as little as a single month, a one month old vs a newborn is a dramatic difference once you've seen them together. Certainly by the time Ned got Jon back to Winterfell and Cat arrived with Robb, if Jon were appeciably (say + one or two months) older it would have been plain to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russo Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 We don't know the White Fawn's real name do we?Edit: Found out here name was/is Wenda. Do we know why she is called The White Fawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 She dressed all in white i believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russo Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Perhaps, I'm just thinking it may be a reference to a sigil for her house. Perhaps she is a Baratheon or a Baratheon bastard (unlikely I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crow's Third Eye Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Baratheon colours are black and gold though :) I think you are looking too much into it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 In a retrospective in ASoS 36 Davos IV, Stannis Baratheon remembers his brother Robert during the Robellion and white fawns as heraldry of Stormlord Cafferen: "My brother had a gift for inspiring loyalty. Even in his foes. At Summerhall he won three battles in a single day, and brought Lords Grandison and Cafferen back to Storm's End as prisoners. He hung their banners in the hall as trophies. Cafferen's white fawns were spotted with blood and Grandison's sleeping lion was torn near in two. Yet they would sit beneath those banners of a night, drinking and feasting with Robert. He even took them hunting. 'These men meant to deliver you to Aerys to be burned' I told him after I saw them throwing axes in the yard. 'You should not be putting axes in their hands.' Robert only laughed. I would have thrown Grandison and Cafferen into a dungeon, but he turned them into friends. Lord Cafferen died at Ashford Castle, cut down by Randyll Tarly whilst fighting for Robert. Lord Grandison was wounded on the Trident and died of it a year after. My brother made them love him, but it would seem that I inspire only betrayal. Even in mine own blood and kin. Brother, grandfather, cousins, good uncle . . . " I am with BrandonWeirtee the Dragon though. Imagine a youthful lady going wild in the woods, a fawn is an option for comparison. She's wearing white? A white fawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tam Stark Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 do the Lannister words foreshadow the impending implosion of the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 We don't know the White Fawn's real name do we?Edit: Found out here name was/is Wenda. Do we know why she is called The White Fawn?It was also a fawn that she burned into the butcheeks of the highborn she captured :)At least that's what she burned into Merrett's ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Weirgaryen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 It was also a fawn that she burned into the butcheeks of the highborn she captured :)At least that's what she burned into Merrett's ass. Heheh, we don't know if her nickname gave shape to the branding iron (might have been stolen from or lost by some Cafferen henchman) or if it was the iron that gave her the nickname... or tongue-in-cheek coincidence/opportunity. edit: tpyos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Heheh, we don't know if her nickname gave shape to the branding iron (might have been stolen from or lost by some Cafferen henchman) or if it was the iron that gave her the nickname... or tongue-in-cheek coincidence/opportunity. edit: tpyos Yeah, one most likely was the cause of the other, but which one? If I had to guess, I'd guess she got her hands on the fawn-iron and received her nickname because it was a fawn she burned into her victims. Perhaps she dressed in white, which could be where the white part of the name came from. But that's just speculation. One will have been the cause of the other, I have no doubts. But I don't think we'll ever find out which. Just thought I'd mention it though :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russo Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Baratheon colours are black and gold though :) I think you are looking too much into it :)No doubt I am.The Cafferen link is interesting. The Toynes were a Stormlands house too right? Anyway, I doubt its important to the overall story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciaranmt Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Officially we don't know SSM: Otherwise there are threads HERE and HERE for starters. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba12 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Do we know exactly why Stannis grinds his teeth all the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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