Castel Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Possibly because he's insane? The Outside "leaks" through everyone iirc, it's how the world works. Insane people just have it much worse. IIRC Sarl also started talking about the same blindness when he went mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Possibly because he's insane? The Outside "leaks" through everyone iirc, it's how the world works. Insane people just have it much worse. IIRC Sarl also started talking about the same blindness when he went mad. I think I remember something (maybe someone posted it or maybe in TJE) about madness being a way the outside leaks in too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 In the Bakkerverse, insanity IS the Outside leaking in. It's been stated numerous times, and it makes sense, unless Bakker's been intentionally fucking with us for five books (entirely possible, but I'll take his word for it until proven otherwise). My interpretation of the idea that madness is the "Outside leaking in" is that, basically, madness is a form of super-sanity. Which, in many real-life cases, is arguably true. People with "mental illnesses" can't put on the facade of reality. They see what existence really is, in a Lovecraftian sense, and it drives them insane, for their minds (souls) are not built for such knowledge. This ties in with the very Lovecraftian nature of the Hundred in general. Some of Bakker's descriptions of the Gods feel like they were lifted right out of an HP story. As does the Outside in general. It also explains time/space paradoxes, like Kellhus hearing the No-God speak to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I think I remember something (maybe someone posted it or maybe in TJE) about madness being a way the outside leaks in too.Yeah, whenever Madness leaks in he's constantly telling people to leave and go someplace outside. :P (Yeah, I know how that sounded :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: I'm only joking though, Madness... and somewhat pui) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cot Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Wrt the scalper growing the eye in his heart.Think you guys are overcomplicating it.Basically in a topos it becomes more about desire / less about reason. The scalper as was stated was fumbling around in pure darkness, so above all he was desiring light/vision - hence literally grew an eye in his heart. Awesome scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Wrt the scalper growing the eye in his heart.Think you guys are overcomplicating it.Basically in a topos it becomes more about desire / less about reason. The scalper as was stated was fumbling around in pure darkness, so above all he was desiring light/vision - hence literally grew an eye in his heart. Awesome scene. Interesting. But it doesn't explain the ranting/ravings of the Scalpers later on when confronted with the Wight full-force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Basically in a topos it becomes more about desire / less about reason. The scalper as was stated was fumbling around in pure darkness, so above all he was desiring light/vision - hence literally grew an eye in his heart. 'Cot'? Hmm... *Checks profile* - Joined a few weeks after Pierce Inverarity left - Bingo. Seriously though, interesting, but where did you get that in a topos it becomes more about desire and less about reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 It's from the appendix. Ajencis says the Outside is malleable to thoughts and desires. Topoi are where the Outside leaks into reality, and so thoughts can mess stuff up. We don't know if Ajencis is right, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 In the Bakkerverse, insanity IS the Outside leaking in. It's been stated numerous times, and it makes sense, unless Bakker's been intentionally fucking with us for five books (entirely possible, but I'll take his word for it until proven otherwise). My interpretation of the idea that madness is the "Outside leaking in" is that, basically, madness is a form of super-sanity. Which, in many real-life cases, is arguably true. People with "mental illnesses" can't put on the facade of reality. They see what existence really is, in a Lovecraftian sense, and it drives them insane, for their minds (souls) are not built for such knowledge. This ties in with the very Lovecraftian nature of the Hundred in general. Some of Bakker's descriptions of the Gods feel like they were lifted right out of an HP story. As does the Outside in general. It also explains time/space paradoxes, like Kellhus hearing the No-God speak to him. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 In the Bakkerverse, insanity IS the Outside leaking in. It's been stated numerous times, and it makes sense, unless Bakker's been intentionally fucking with us for five books (entirely possible, but I'll take his word for it until proven otherwise). My interpretation of the idea that madness is the "Outside leaking in" is that, basically, madness is a form of super-sanity. Which, in many real-life cases, is arguably true. People with "mental illnesses" can't put on the facade of reality. They see what existence really is, in a Lovecraftian sense, and it drives them insane, for their minds (souls) are not built for such knowledge. This ties in with the very Lovecraftian nature of the Hundred in general. Some of Bakker's descriptions of the Gods feel like they were lifted right out of an HP story. As does the Outside in general. It also explains time/space paradoxes, like Kellhus hearing the No-God speak to him. See Cnaiur recollecting Achamian's explanation of the human portal between the world and Outside in TTT as he rationalizes his own insanity... I still blame the Consult booze and party-drugs the Synthese feeds Cnaiur at Joktha but... Yeah, whenever Madness leaks in he's constantly telling people to leave and go someplace outside. :P (Yeah, I know how that sounded :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: I'm only joking though, Madness... and somewhat pui) I laughed. Abandon this place all ye who would still save their souls from the demonic and Damnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 It's from the appendix. Ajencis says the Outside is malleable to thoughts and desires. Topoi are where the Outside leaks into reality, and so thoughts can mess stuff up. We don't know if Ajencis is right, obviously. How did he figure that out in the first place? Who says snakes and pigs don't have souls? If they did wouldn't the Consult have to reduce the population of animals as well? Also, why not fish and insects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 How did he figure that out in the first place?If they did wouldn't the Consult have to reduce the population of animals as well? Also, why not fish and insects? He's a philosopher, he just came up with it. And, nah, they've got tiny-souls, obviously. Small enough that eliminating all humans is enough to tip the balance. edit: Another Atrocity Tale I'd like to see would be Galeoth during Unifcation with Saubon and his father. I'd like to see how that played out with Saubon's daddy issues, and then having greater power than his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 An Atrocity Tale I'd like to see is one set in Ishual during the early Dunyain days, or maybe during Moenghus' time there. Perhaps Bakker can also show us some Dunyain women while he's at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd like a story with one of the Gierra sex workers. Curious as to the different feeling between a religious prostitute and the others. Also, a Cish PoV that isn't Big Moe. And maybe a Wracu one as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd like a story with one of the Gierra sex workers. Curious as to the different feeling between a religious prostitute and the others. Also, a Cish PoV that isn't Big Moe. And maybe a Wracu one as well... Dude, the Nonman POV was horrible enough, who wants to read a story in all caps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Dude, the Nonman POV was horrible enough, who wants to read a story in all caps? :laugh: :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Common' Trisk. It's not a Cishaurim POV so much as its part of the omnipresent war narrative. And it narratives the Cishaurim first joining the battle for Shimeh, not fleeing it. Know this, Trisk - if you aren't pimping the Righteousness of Cishaurim who do I trust to do the good work here ;)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anatúrinbor Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I got one... An Inchie PoV at the time they discovered Damnation, or whoever created the IF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jurble Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 In the TJE Mimara describes Kellhus as "radiant and tragic." She tells Akka later that she never looked on him with the Judging Eye, but is it possible that she had (and misremembers) and that the radiant and tragic is from that? In which case, it would be more evidence that Kellhus is a prophet, but that he has also lied (that sorcery still damns - and that ironically, he is a damned prophet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I got one... An Inchie PoV at the time they discovered Damnation, or whoever created the IF. I'll second both of those. An Atrocity Tale set in the Inchie home world would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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