Second Game of Thrones Trailer Premieres

[Areo Speedwagon]

. Remember when this forum went all nuts because they thought Oberon was going to be cut and Bronn would fight the duel with the Mountain ?

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

It will be a very long thread.

[Koi No Yokan]

One scene that I really love in these trailers is that sweeping shot behind a brooding Joffrey sitting at the wedding table. Something about it... it's almost disquieting to see Joff looking so calm!

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

Wasn't the Stannis part supposed to be them making it seem like the leech scene may have influenced the RW?

[DirewolfDragon]

I don't remember if it was in a trailer or just one of the pics out there, but there is a pic of Joff and Margaery at their wedding feast and the background is a red and gold design with lions and the letter L. I wonder why this is instead of the Baratheon "B"?

[Annara Snow]

I don't remember if it was in a trailer or just one of the pics out there, but there is a pic of Joff and Margaery at their wedding feast and the background is a red and gold design with lions and the letter L. I wonder why this is instead of the Baratheon "B"?

If you look closely, you can see that there are a few stags here and there, but they are hard to notice, because they are drowned by the sea of lions.

It's obviously a visual representation of how things really stand. Joffrey may believe that Robert was his father, but everyone, including those who also believe in his official parentage, are well aware that it's the Lannisters who are really in power. The Baratheon uncles were/are at war with them, that says enough. Joffrey's claim may be derived from Robert, but his actual power comes from Tywin and the Lannister family.

[Rashtibram]

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

I was thinking about doing this as well...while I'm not sure about Kingsmoot/Greyjoy uncles, I do agree that things like the idea that Tywin will kill Shae, or that the army will shout "Melisandre" instead of Stannis do seem to be ridiculous and reminiscent of other forum nonsense like the above mentioned RW and Oberyn duel theories. Another one I remember which was a hot topic for debate at one point was that after the 3x07 preview came out, a bunch of people thought that Mel and Gendry were at King's Landing to make a shadow baby that would kill Joffrey.

[Annara Snow]

I'd like to go back to that "who women find sexy" discussion from a few days ago that I didn't have the time to reply to, that was an interesting conversation... :D

^Women find Rory McCann attractive? I hadn't considered that. He is awesome in general but I didn't know in THAT way as well. Good to know.

Well, many women find the Hound as a character attractive, must have been Arya saying he was muscled like a bull and Sansa thinking about him obsessively in every single chapter but one. There's that devotion to Sansa plus he's a bad boy, and fictional bad boys are rather hard for some of us to resist (why bother, in fact). I was talking beards there, but Rory looks pretty good to me!

I think the Hound seems to be written as attractive to women, outside of his actual looks. He’s protective, a good dog for the right ‘master,’ and likes wine, women, songs (whichever ‘song’ you want that to be). He’s honest, loyal, strong and a fearsome warrior. Not much more a Westerosi woman could want really, after getting used to his face. He also has a gift for gab and language, so he could be entertaining. His anger would be a hurdle to jump.

McCann is attractive (and has the resonant voice). His Sandor Clegane is rather handsome, despite scars. Looks like a younger Ned. I wonder if viewers will ever get to see him in something other than the grey armour. I think there is a huggy bear under there.

Maybe he is supposed to present that rough sex appeal in his role as Sandor, a hard fuck suitable for wet dreams.

I find Sandor very sexy, in the books, and in the show. I don't like the term "bad boy", because I think it's pretty misleading - but Sandor's brutal honesty and contempt for hypocrisy is something I find very appealing. His anger may be unpleasant, but he has good reasons to be angry, it shows that deep down he is tormented and had dreams of better things, no matter how much he wouldn't want to admit it... Yes, there is a certain masculine "rough sex appeal" there, but it's not just that, he is also surprisingly gentle (something we get a lot from Sansa's chapters) and devoted and protective, and - something very important that nobody has mentioned yet - there's also a lot of vulnerability that he's trying to hide with his attitude. He's so tragic, and there's a traumatized little boy deep inside, and sometimes you just want to take care of him and make him feel loved... And maybe quite a few women are drawn to the idea of giving love to man who's never had love (an emotional virgin? ;) ), and of being his one and only?

I guess all those contradictory traits, rolled together, are very appealing, especially in a "muscled like a bull" body? :D

On the show, they, sadly, didn't often let Sandor be as angry, as emotional or as opinionated/talkative as in the books, but Rory manages to look really intense even when he's not getting many lines (I love the way he stared daggers at Joffrey in some scenes), he has the right physical presence and a wonderful, deep, resonant voice. I like his face, too, despite the burns (in fact, I want the burns to look even worse, to get across how disfigured he is supposed to be). And I must say with some embarrassment that I found him really sexy when he was killing those guys who were trying to rape Sansa. Well, it looked like they wanted the viewers to cheer and swoon when he came to the rescue, but it's exactly the fact that he's so matter-of-fact about it, that was great - if the scene showed a guy being all "I'm your knight, coming to your rescue, fair maiden!", I'd have probably rolled my eyes.

In RL, Rory seems to be a very lovely guy, he is warm, plays guitar and sings has a great smile... But I have to say that his fashion choices leave something to be desired. ;)

But the protective qualities - I cannot get over him having chopped a boy to pieces, a boy that could have been my boy. And the erotics of having a knife at a girl's throat and then NOT killing her, oh wow! Maybe I have seen too much in life to overlook the big red warning of domestic violence behind the idea of a good hard fuck. Apart from that, the smell and the booze.......

Most of the characters are pretty fucked up. If we were going by "who would be a well-adjusted and nice person I would date in real life"... that would hardly leave anyone. Fortunately, it's just fiction; we don't have to deal with their shit while we're just watching them or reading about them... and we don't get to smell the "realistic" odour of these characters; if any of us found ourselves in a medieval world, we'd be disgusted with most of them! Most of these people would smell really bad - the ladies and high lords sitting in castles may be having regular baths, but imagine the guys who spend months and months on the road! And then you read things like Dunk taking care to wash himself, as Ser Arlan taught him too, because cleanliness is important... once a month! :lol: And that's supposed to be clean for a hedge knight or sworn sword, there are guys like that asshole whathisname from Sworn Sword, who never washed, and smelled bad even by their standards!

And if you guys think it's better with the ladies, who take baths and perfume themselves... well, just remember, "Girls don't shave" (as Arya pointed out, to which Jon said maybe they should, and mentioned Septa Mordane's legs)... Fortunately, they wear very long dresses... :P

Anyway, from the POV of someone in-universe, Sandor would definitely need to get his shit together, stop drinking so much, and not be so violently unstable before he is a relationship material. But, I suppose that, if I look at things from the POV of someone like Sansa (which we do in the books), I would be far less concerned about a potential relationship with Sandor compared to some other male characters - because, while he is physically very powerful, he has very little social power. I guess if I were in the position of someone like Sansa, I would find it easier to relate to a man who has as little social power as I do, and a relationship with someone lower born and devoid of social power would be appealing both as a forbidden fruit/rebellious act, and as a less unequal relationship than one I could have with a man of my own social class (because a man of my own class would have all the social power over me, and any power I have I would have to get through him).

Do women find show's Stannis attractive?

I never found Stannis remotely sexy in the books, but Stephen Dillane makes him surprisingly sexy - at least at times. Like during the Blackwater, with the armor and black gloves and looking determined and purposeful. Also, his scenes with Mel are very sexually charged.

Do women find show's Jorah attractive?

I always found Iain Glen super handsome and sexy in other roles, but as Jorah... no. He is good-looking (too good-looking for Jorah), but he doesn't do it for me. I think it's because he always talks with that "wise noble older man" voice (which also annoys me because Jorah is hardly the source of all wisdom, and has very questionable ethics, to say the least), combined with sad, looking looks at Dany (which make me feel like the show is trying to make me root for him to "get the girl"... which I don't).

I guess the monk robes will do, but I am not sure the show will go there, which will be a shame. In case they do not, perhaps just a roll in the hay with some bar maid? Because Sandor actually had Sansa thinking they kissed, so if the show isn't going to go there, we need something else.

I'd rather not have any pointless sex scenes, for anyone, thank you. I like sex scenes when they serve the character and the story, not when they're there just to show someone naked. This season is packed, and I'd much rather have his screentime used for actual character development. Things like his relationship with his brother, his relationship with Sansa, his background, his opinions... I'd much rather have the show fill the viewers on the Clegane family history, which so far they were only able to hear on the DVD History and Lore extra, if they hadn't read the book. And when would he have the opportunity to have a roll in a hay with a bar maid, anyway? He is focused on getting Arya wherever he needs to get her and isn't going to leave her on her own, and he certainly wouldn't be having sex in front of her.

I thought the girls were all about jon. at least my friends are.

Jon is one of my favorites in the books, and Kit is really good-looking, but his sex appeal goes up and down depending on how well the show is portaying him... they should really stop making him look clueless and incompetent, which Jon is not! Season 4 should fix this...

Do girls find Tormund attractive?

The actor is rather good-looking, though the beard is too big for my taste... but Tormund is not my type, I've never found the loud, jokey, boastful type of guy sexy. Funny and likable, yes, sexy... not for me.

[Annara Snow]

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

Don't forget "Talisa/Ros/random female character will take the place of Fake!Arya".

[Mr Fixit]

Don't forget "Talisa/Ros/random female character will take the place of Fake!Arya".

To be honest, the idea behind Talisa wasn't that she'd be fArya, but that Ramsay would marry her to strengthen his claim. It wasn't all that crazy a theory; she was Robb's wife, after all. Not that Northerners would necessarily give a rat's ass to Ramsay's claim through a foreign ex-Queen, but similar situations have occurred in real history.

[Annara Snow]

To be honest, the idea behind Talisa wasn't that she'd be fArya, but that Ramsay would marry her to strengthen his claim. It wasn't all that crazy a theory; she was Robb's wife, after all. Not that Northerners would necessarily give a rat's ass to Ramsay's claim through a foreign ex-Queen, but similar situations have occurred in real history.

It's far less crazy than the currently popular "Ramsey's co-conspirator Myranda will take the place of fArya", I'll give you that.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

they should really stop making him look clueless and incompetent, which Jon is not! Season 4 should fix this...

Yeah I think they have missed the mark with Jon. To me bookJon is a boy thrown in a man's world and trying hard to be a man (ref: initial training) then forced into manhood though his experiences with Halfhand and the time with wildlings. I think part of the problem with showJon is the age of the characters and actors. You don't get the feeling of boy-becoming-man and it just comes off as "clueless and incompetent" - and yet you never get the feeling that he is conflicted between his allegiances.

[Woman of War]

Annara, I have to requote myself with the complete post because I feel bad if my post comes over as demeaning the actor who plays Sandor.

Indeed I cannot see the character of Sandor as erotic, although I have to admit that all of them in this world probably stink horribly. But sorry, I like resonant, deep, beautiful and modulated voices in men, not ""rasping". To me Sandor is .......shudder.

Yet again: the actor is probably perfectly nice and erotic. I don't know him but to me erotics is transported by smile, eyes, movements, intelligence and voice. All this may be there with the actor but not with the character of Sandor for me. Personal taste.

Maybe he is supposed to present that rough sex appeal in his role as Sandor, a hard fuck suitable for wet dreams. But the protective qualities - I cannot get over him having chopped a boy to pieces, a boy that could have been my boy. And the erotics of having a knife at a girl's throat and then NOT killing her, oh wow! Maybe I have seen too much in life to overlook the big red warning of domestic violence behind the idea of a good hard fuck. Apart from that, the smell and the booze.......

But to each her own, enjoy! I for sure would not want to wake up in the same bed like Sandor, he could go straightaway after......And oldfashioned as I am I still prefer guys who are not a nuisance but entertaining at the breakfast table.

Of course that says nothing about the actor, I read McCann is into music and really charming. But actors are actors because they know to act like a childkiller while being perfectly nice in RL. I guess Dinklage doesn't drink like Tyrion in RL or strangle his lovers either..... :).

By Annara Snow:

I find Sandor very sexy, in the books, and in the show. I don't like the term "bad boy", because I think it's pretty misleading - but Sandor's brutal honesty and contempt for hypocrisy is something I find very appealing. His anger may be unpleasant, but he has good reasons to be angry, it shows that deep down he is tormented and had dreams of better things, no matter how much he wouldn't want to admit it... Yes, there is a certain masculine "rough sex appeal" there, but it's not just that, he is also surprisingly gentle (something we get a lot from Sansa's chapters) and devoted and protective, and - something very important that nobody has mentioned yet - there's also a lot of vulnerability that he's trying to hide with his attitude. He's so tragic, and there's a traumatized little boy deep inside, and sometimes you just want to take care of him and make him feel loved...

Of course I have to accept that your taste is different. You see one side of the character Sandor's qualities while I see another. I could, coming from myself as mother, see the traumatized little boy but I see the guy who killed a traumatized boy.

And maybe quite a few women are drawn to the idea of giving love to man who's never had love (an emotional virgin? ), and of being his one and only?

That is interesting since we women are all attracted to emotional nurturing. In a twisted way this is is expressed by women explicitely seeking out the bad guys (I read that you don't like the term, sorry) as their task, their perspective in life, women contacting longterm prisoners e.g. And they want to be the one and only then for a man so much in need. This is not totally pervert, it is the the twisted continuation of what we women, or most of us, have been taught to desire: to be important only when needed. And this wish may easily drive women to be with the one most in need, to see themselves as indispensable redemption angel. Yes, the "emotional virgin" is a thrill and it is erotic to imagine oneself as his one and only. Although unfortunately in one of my many jobs I have seen the dark side of it: the victims of domestic violence who still put his wellbeing over their own, who draw all their self confidence from allegedly being able to redeem him, to find in him what he could be.......only to end up at best in a shelter for battered women. That's why I react a little allergic here.

But coming back to the books: what you see in Sandor I may see in the character of Tyrion although he in the books is more of the age to be my son or not much older (I don't mind younger men but somewhere I draw the line :D ) The "emotional virgin" would not be completely correct since Tyrion has experienced real love but it would be the "emotional honesty virgin". Works as mother or as lover :) although here the conflict between imagining the character and the actor gets quite big. I don't follow so many blogs but Dinklage does not at all strike me as emotionally depraved and is old enough to have erotic thrill for me, though only in his role as Tyrion, I never touch married men except my own :D . So I simply imagine book Tyrion as Dinklage, easy since I am one of those lightweight fans who started reading only after the first episode.

So you see it all is only a matter of taste. And let me not start with HBO Jorah, Jaqen, book not HBO Mance.... hmmm...

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

It's far less crazy than the currently popular "Ramsey's co-conspirator Myranda will take the place of fArya", I'll give you that.

That doesn't even make sense.

[Le Cygne]

I don't like the term "bad boy", because I think it's pretty misleading - but Sandor's brutal honesty and contempt for hypocrisy is something I find very appealing.

<snip>

I'd rather not have any pointless sex scenes, for anyone, thank you.

Bad boy was spoken lightheartedly, not meant to be taken literally. You want another term, misunderstood hero. There you go. Every story has one, like on The Walking Dead, it's Daryl Dixon. Most beloved of all, Han Solo, and yes, I think at heart, Sandor is a nice man, too, and hopefully we'll see a scene as good as this when he and Sansa meet again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLWwmEUk0yg

And clearly the other poster wanted to see Sandor's story unfold as in the books, with Sansa, the bar maid thing was just lighthearted forum banter. Also, Rory McCann lightheartedly said something similar, everyone else is getting some loving on the show but Sandor. It's all in fun, it's a serious story, but we can have fun talking about it...

[Karmarni]

Yes, this forum has its moments. When a thread asks for "serious only, please" - how many serious replies are there? Not many.

Yes, I would have liked to see more book interactions with the Hound and Sansa on the show. We got little of it and that is a disappointment to me. The 'bringing him on slowly' that Brian Cogman mentions in this S0305 commentary concerning the Hound is a choice the showrunners made. The further insights into the Clegane family will likely come from the Hound as Gregor and Oberyn build up to their fight this season. This will most likely be the background information that the Hound told Sansa, here on the show, retooled to be told to Arya.

Sandor has a chip on his shoulder (face). It defines him, is his crutch, his mask. That’s what makes him the Beast, the titular ‘bad boy’. But I think what GRRM is writing is that this isn't the man. That's why the Hound dies. Is he attractive, certainly. As someone to fix? He’s doing his own ‘fixing’ we might expect, on the Quiet Isle, which is a continuation of what he began with Arya. He was undergoing the transformation slowly from the moment Ned lost his head. Sandor came close to dying. Those who experience this usually embrace life for all its worth. Will the chip on his shoulder still be there? I’m betting not. It’s the end of his transformation. That Stranger is not gelded was important, though, so we won’t have a Sandor who is unrecognizable, just not the ‘killing is the sweetest thing’ guy he claimed to be. That is, not the fraud that he realized he was at the end of SoS.

It’s hard for those of us who love these books as much as we do to separate the stories and the characters from what we want. What we want for the characters, what we think of them and their actions, in our own terms, in our own world. The characters have their own desires and their own world they live in. In the world of GRRM, Sandor is crafted as a character that becomes part of the Stark pack. He is the man that Sansa has come to identify with. She has listened to his advice, hears his voice, and expects him to be there for her.

And clearly the other poster wanted to see Sandor's story unfold as in the books, with Sansa, the bar maid thing was just lighthearted forum banter.

Yes, tongue-in-cheek. We were talking about Rory McCann’s attractiveness. He makes a good Hound. Not what I imagined reading the books, which I don’t have a problem with keeping separate since I did read them first. His Hound has more gentleness and vulnerability than was on the surface of book Hound. That seems a choice in how to portray him on the show, to have viewers like him more and more, like plenty of us did in the books. Also it plays to McCann’s strengths and looks as a sweet, big guy. But I was trying to say that I’d like to see a nod to the sexual attractiveness of the book Hound in the show Hound and not just have him be a big, bad killer.

Because going forward, we have Sansa thinking about this kiss that didn’t happen. And she builds on it, reimagining it with other kisses. Leaping from Loras to the Hound; from Tyrion to the Hound. She thinks of this kiss as one that belongs in her marriage bed. That was a big character development for Sansa and I still have hope that the show will allow us to see that she no longer wants a prince, and, now, masquerading as a bastard girl, has developed her own bravery and her own ideas of what she wants and those aren’t based on her claim as a highborn girl. As a reader, I go with what the characters’ want and she wants Sandor Clegane. And not just for a wild night of sex (which really, would be ‘almost gently’), but as ‘my Hound’, like Jean Cocteau’s ‘ma Bête.’

[Le Cygne]

Lots of great stuff there, Karmarni. If anyone likes this story, watch La Belle et la Bete (Cocteau), things really stand out, enough elements of the book story in ASOIAF are coming through visually in the show. The rose at her father's tourney, the beast/the Hound, the glove/the doll and the beast walking out the door, even the hallway scene is reminiscent, as is beauty looking in the mirror. It's a classic story, they can't help but tell it, even if they don't try, but I think they've tried to some extent. If they were to continue telling the story this season, there would be Beauty missing the beast, and the beast missing Beauty (and the scene at the end is a big part of the story, too). And I agree, the story is about the characters.

[UK Mord]

I don't think it's her, either. Looks like there's a sword coming up along the back. And armor.

I'm wondering if it is maybe Gendry. We saw him setting off in season 3 in a row boat when Davos helped him escape. The series will need to continue his story.

My theory doesn't explain the look of armour though

[King Zee]

I do. Glad you brought that up. it reminds me of the claims that the Kingsmoot won't happen, Victarion and Euron will be cut, etc.

I've been toying with the idea of making a thread about that. Of claims, certain of impending "whitewashing," "character assassination," and "butchery" based on trailers or previews where the events end up happening very similar to how they do in the books.

Also, I remember a very real fear that 'they' were going to make Stannis responsible for the Red Wedding. And that the Red Wedding was going to be cut.

if you remember more examples you should do it- make that thread.

[Envie]

I actually can't believe people are serious about this. This woman doesn't look the slightest bit like Brienne !

I know! It's obvious Brienne is actually the one on horseback at the very end anyways. Why do people think that's Coldhands? Doesn't look anything like him! :bawl: