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Will Dany ever return to Meereen? I think not...


AnneGhoul

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Taking Volantis with the Dothraaki seems direct and plausible, but GRRM isn't direct or plausible; he writes a good plot, then screws it up in a shocking fashion.

What I think will happen is a Slave Revolt in her name. Dont think she'll really have a lot to do with it. All she has to do is fly over and its game-set-match. When you have a million people in a city and 900,000(including the Police Force) are slaves and all of them are of the same faith that proclaims the conqueror as the savior - it wont even be a battle. I'm of the mind that Danerys will never sit on the Iron Throne - but Unify Essos to save Westeroes.

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Getting through Dany's story in ADWD was absolutely agonizing for me. That said, it was well worth her last POV. I was pumping my fist in the air during her slow realization that the term, "If I look back I am lost" has been terribly misguiding and by the time she said something along the lines of "I have to go back to find myself" or w/e I was absolutely ecstatic.



I totally agree with Lissa Nymeros Martell that leaving Meeren was extremely symbolic of Dany shedding the pomp and politics in Mereen that she had fallen in and returning to herself. Dany's personality thus far has been a balancing act between "Mother of Dragons" and "Mhysa" to the people. In Winds, I think we will see her prioritize things and truly come into the role of The Dragon Queen.



SO-- What's going to happen? I imagine the Dothraki seeing Drogon and pretty easily obeying Dany. She will go to Vaes Dothrak and gather the Dothraki with the point to return and liberate Mereen. During these beginning POVs we will see her lamenting frequently over the children (dragons especially, but including the people) she left behind but she will realize the bigger picture (which thus far she has failed to do) and will continue West collecting Dothraki.



Meanwhile in Mereen, Selmy is leading the charge. The first battle is won, but the dragons grow restless. Victarion is a new challenger but Dany's forces are tired. They keep him at bay but barely-- and eventually he invades. He is angry that Dany is gone but pleased that there are two dragons still there. I think his hornblowing won't work because I think the dragons are already "binded" with Dany. Still, afraid of what will be done if he has the dragons, Selmy conspires with Jorah and Tyrion to free the dragons in hopes that they will find Dany. In my perfect little world there would be an epic scene mirroring the death of Quentyn-- as the dragons fly off some dying guard will manage, "what have you done? Where will they go?" Jorah: "They will find her." "Who?" "Their mother."



Then the dragons fly to meet their brother and Dany, with the power of 3 dragons everybody rallies around her. To forward you must go back (she traveled back to collect an army), to go west you must go east (she travels back east in order to defeat the fleet/get ships/ etc.). She arrives and there isn't even a battle.... gods be good everybody rallies around her power and by the end of Winds EVERYBODY leaves Mereen to go to Westeros.



So, will she return to Mereen? I believe so, but not to save it. She will come to collect her people and dominate the iron fleet. Leave behind the damn pyramids and start her journey home. Let's hope at least...


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^ :agree:



Reading your post, Thats_So_Craven, I finally realized that Tyrion's stature might finally be an advantage--with the dragons. There's a good chance any fire they breathe will literally go over his head.



Crackpot theory: Penny is a dragonrider. She can go visit the woman responsible for her brother's death, riding Rhaegal Airlines. Probably impossible, but incredibly fun.


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Daenerys Targaryen will have not only the Dothraki, who have sworn to Khal Drogo, but all the Khals. It is prophesied , that she will take charge of all the Dothraki nation in Vaes Dothrak. We see that in the visions of the House of the Undying, when the crones of Vaes Dothrak emerge from a lake, shivering and kneel before her with their heads bowed, this means, that all Vaes Dothrak will be hers by the end of the book and they will follow her. As for the Volantinese Fleet, my prediction is, that it will also be hers, because when the Fleet arrives in Slaver's Bay, she will have returned with Drogon and hundred thousand Dothraki warriors by her side.



Victarion won't have any Dragon, because even if he achieves to bind a Dragon, the matter is to control him, Daenerys has all the three Dragons bound to her, but she couldn't control them properly, imagine Victarion a Sea Captain of the Iron Fleet trying to control the last three Dragons known to the World. In the books it is mentioned, that the powers of the Dragons are superior to all the other supernatural powers. In addition, Moqorro has no reason to help Victarion to get a dragon, because he was sent by the high priest of the R'holl to teach Daenerys the new Religion, what do you think, that Daenerys will do, when she learns, that Moqorro and the new Religion helped Victarion to steal a dragons from her? The plausible position for Victarion is the role of the Master of Ships and Captain of the New Royal Fleet.


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A guy who keeps thralls and pillages. I do not see that happening with Dany's view of the world.

Drogo kept thralls and pillaged. In fact he was worse than Victarian. I actually like him, his simple mindedness is refreshing. He may be a little savage but I think dany can win him to her side without marrying him or who knows he is a lot like drogo except he is more of a follower which seems to me something dany would like.

I think dany in mereen wasn't being herself the whole repeating statement "I'm to don my floppy ears" says she was acting or not being herself for the people of mereen and she finally realizes that and is borne into what she must be in the dothraki sea again. I think she is still young and her life is ups and downs. She isn't much older than Sansa but look how much more she has achieved.

I don't think dany is crazy, she had those visions in the dothraki sea after she poisoned herself with berries and was super dehydrated.

She might die in the upcoming book I don't know anyone can really but I have always thought her story is the "fire" to the ice and fire and one of the more important of it. I thought Jon was the ice until he got stabbed 4 times or 3 or whatever. (I hope he lives)

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People keep saying that Dany has the dragons bound to her. This is absolutely not true, it's realistically the main issue that's thwarted her original plans of getting to Westeros (quickly, at least). The fact she can't control them, the fact that they're not big enough to ride, and the fact that she wants to free the slaves - those are the 3 things holding her back IMO. Back to the point though, she left Drogon's lair specifically because she had no control over him and couldn't take care of herself. Yes, they're attached to each other but they aren't bound to Dany. If you stated they were bound together speculatively then ignore this...sorry if I'm coming across harsh - Monday Morning Blues :dunce:



On a side note, I think there's a very good possibility that Drogon is going to kill Viserion. Obviously not the same way that Drogo killed Viserys, but I think that was foreshadowing


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It doesn't work that way. Paraphrasing but: "When a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin to decide whether or not this one will have the madness." You either have it or you don't. There are no half-mad Targs. GRRM wrote it that way.

From a scientific standpoint, the Targ madness is genetic, but not every Targ gets it. It seems to be a double recessive, which the child would have to inherit from both parents. Even parents with the disorder may not pass it on (coin-flip on passing on the healthy versus abnormal gene). Bringing in an outside line (Stark) increases the possibility of madness-free offspring. If Jon is half Targaryen he's far less likely to have inherited the psycho genes than Daenerys whose parents were brother and sister and thus had the same genetic mix to contribute. Dany still may not have gotten those genes, but the probability (at 50%) is much higher for her than for any of Rhaegar's children.

Yes, Jon could be AAR. He too is a leading contender and I have no problem with that idea. Also it would be interesting if he DID go mad. I just don't see it happening. He's shown no real unsteadiness in the mental health department. Just a tendency to be melancholy, and that seems to be more his natural temperament than anything else. Makes him rather Rhaegar-like really.

Do you really think it works the way you describe? That Martin has such a simple view of mental illness -- that it is 100% driven by this strange, binary view of genetics? Just because Barristan said some old phrase?

How many times does Martin have to bring up the idea of an unreliable narrator before people realize that those quotes don't even necessarily signify that Barristan thinks it is the truth, let alone Martin.

Instead, we get a paranoid and vicious Aerys, who even Barristan claims was more sane in their youth. We get Viserys -- bitter, entitled and twisted, but hardly mentally ill in the traditional sense. We get Cersei and Joff as well, seemingly part products of their environment at least. We get Ramsay, who even Roose ponders if he'd have been a better child if he hadn't fallen in with Reek. You have sociopathic Jaime changing.

The level of certainty based on a bit of folk lore/quote is just weird to me. Especially to a writer who seems at every point to show shades of grey instead of certainties.

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Everyone with fanfic that has things mostly go right for our protagonists is a little crazy, no?



I suspect that someone is successful is binding at least one of the dragons. I suspect that only Drogon is with Dany for a while. I suspect that Meereen falls apart. I really have no idea if she ever goes back.



I'm fairly disappointed in her character.


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what she learned in Slavers Bay is she cant leave places unruled. They need to bend the knee to her and she needs to set Lords over the people. So she has to return. But not to rule the City - but to set things straight - finalize the conquest and collect taxes.


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i see where you're coming from with that... my only rebuttal is the fact that he's killed so many major characters in this series. king robert, ned, robb, tywin, jon snow for all we know, as well as stannis. the last two aren't confirmed yet, but the list goes on and on. perhaps they weren't as involved with the story as she is besides Snow and Stannis, but you get my point i think.

i just can't see her being the end-all leader at the end of the books, and like i said before i think there's a strong likelihood she'll be dead. i also believe she's starting to go crazy like the mad king (paranoia, weird visions etc) so i think she's going to make some very questionable decisions leading to her demise. but it's all an opinion so we'll just have to wait and see :dunno:

In reality - GRRM hasnt killed ANY important characters... Even Ned was a small character (in book 1 and done)...

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Like I've said before, I don't think Dany is going to bring an actual army to Westeros - ever.

The Unsullied in Victarion's longships? Where's the *space* for them in the ships? The only way to find space for them is by throwing out and killing their rowers. Then who is going to actually know how to handle the ships and row them? Ten thousand is going to end up being, at best four or five thousand.

Dothraki? Even worse. Neither the men nor their horses will find the ships to cross the sea, whether Dany takes command of them or not. (And remember you need MANY more ships for a Dothraki army, because of needing space for the horses - horses which are going to be completely useless in a Westerosi winter except as dinner.)

No. If she comes back, she's coming back alone, on dragonback, with just whatever the dragon can carry. Might subdue the Dothraki: might take them to Meereen: but, having taken the time to subdue the Dothraki to her will - especially if she goes to Vaes Dothrak to subdue the crones - she'll be too late back in Meereen, where the battle is happening *right now*. By the time she gets back there, whatever has happened there will be long over, with the following observations:

- The Yunkai army is doomed, between Barristan's defence and Victarion's attack, and will be dead before the arrival of the Volantis fleet. Tyrion knows that even the Meereenese defence alone would win if it were competently handled (and he knows it will be, since Jorah will have informed him that Barristan Selmy is there) while the Yunkai'i are a ragtag band of chaotically-run amateurs: although he does not know of Victarion's arrival, that will be an extra factor.

- Victarion is not intending to stay in Meereen. While his ships could potentially beat the Volantene fleet - or the Meereenese one - it would involve a lot of losses: and the one thing he is NOT going to do is get into Meereen, win control of the city and stay there as a military commander (either in cooperation with Barristan or after conquering him) and allow the Volantis fleet to approach by sea while he remains in dock. He is basically "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" - get in to Meereen, get whatever he can, get the hell out of there and either fight or evade his way past the incoming Volantenes before they arrive. If Dany's not there, he'll settle for a dragon, if he can get one or two, but the most important thing is to *get out* before Volantis even knows he's been.

- So the big question is: Can Victarion gain control of one or both dragons against their will, first by "claiming the horn in blood" as Moqorro tells him (whatever that means), and then by having it blown by an expendable minion or three? If he can, then he wins outright, because dragons in battle beat whatever else is down there. After the Yunkai'i invasion is smashed, Victarion has no reason to cooperate with Barristan if he can control one or both dragons and get out. Barristan may even die or be seriously injured here attempting to thwart him. In any case I can't see Barristan and Victarion getting on, they'll come to blows sooner or later.

- And of course if Victarion *cannot* control a dragon, then he has no reason to stay since Dany is gone - he has to get out before the Volantenes arrive, or help stay on land and defend from the land against a sea attack. He isn't a landsman, so if he faces the Volantene fleet, it will be aboard ship. Either way, he'll be on his way home long before Dany, who isn't there, knows anything. And since I can't see him either heading home as a failure, or staying on land to defend against a naval invasion, his story arc only makes sense if he CAN control at least one dragon with the horn (and possibly test out his control of it against the Volantis fleet, which will make for a very brief battle, since wooden ship hulls and cloth sails will burn.) Either way, he will be long gone before Dany returns.

- At which point any army of Dothraki that she can command will be completely useless to Dany. No ships to transport them in, and going by road would be across horrific country with little in the way of supplies, and take too long. The only way Dany can get to Westeros *at all* would be alone, on Drogon...

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Add to the above, some wild cards:

- Moqorro. Since his motive was to bring the faith of R'hllor to Dany, if he survives the battle, he may stay behind in hope Dany will return, even after Victarion leaves.

- Tyrion and Jorah. Convincing the Second Sons to switch sides for what's now a third time? Nobody will ever trust Brown Ben Plumm again, so no matter who wins, Plumm will have to die. In any case even if Barristan takes the Second Sons back, Victarion doesn't care, since anyone who isn't ironborn is enemy, and I think Victarion will win the battle before he leaves. Tyrion, who has plot armor, will at best end up a prisoner again, either of Victarion returning home or of Barristan remaining in Meereen: Jorah may share his fate, die, or end up rallying what's left of the Second Sons, which won't be a lot.

- Does Victarion get to steal one dragon or two? I think it can be safely said that it won't be zero, otherwise there would be no point in his going there - he has to return back, with something that he thinks he can either give Euron or confront him with. But one other dragon may remain in Meereen.

- The hostages that Dany left behind. One bloodrider (Rakharo, I think?) and Daario. Whether they survive or not... Dany and Daario are not finished yet, otherwise his value as a hostage is worthless. Also, what will Dany's other Dothraki followers do? (Jhogo and Aggo. Plus Irri and Jhiqui who are far too funny to simply be killed offstage. It is known.)

- What's going to be left of Meereen after all the successive invasions, not to mention their internal conflict, and will they bless or curse the dragon queen for bringing them to this? Even the Shavepate will probably want Dany to leave, if he wins. The Sons of the Harpy want her gone but will probably be beaten the Shavepate's forces. Either way Hizdahr will be conveniently disposed of and Dany widowed again.

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I think the notion that Danaerys would surrender in order to be taken to Vaes Dothrak flies in the face of everything we know about her, Khal Jahqo, and the Dothraki in general. The Dothraki respect strength and rape pretty young girls: reasons one and two for not surrendering. Daenerys hates Khal Jhaqo and he hates her: reasons three and four. Dany swore before all the gods that she would avenge Eroeh and make Jhaqo pay: reason five. She could unite all the khalasars under her by simply having Drogon eat all opposing Khals and commanding the leaderless hordes to meet up with her in Vaes Dothrak. Once they're all under her, she'll ride (west to Asshai in order to go east is my guess).



As for the free cities and slaves throughout Essos, I think Dany's had enough of the underground railroad and the invisible harpies and is on a different mission now.


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I could even see Victarion gaining control of the two remaining dragons, which might lead Daenerys, with her mega-khalasar, to return to Mereen to strike a deal with him - it'd be an uneasy alliance instead of a gigantic war between Victarion, 2 dragons, and a horde of his own vs. Daenerys, 1 very big dragon, and an even larger horde of hers. Then, together, they'll head on out to Westeros. At some point, Victarion might end up getting killed / accidentally slipping off his dragon ("Someone's loosened my dragon saddle straps! Aaah!!!").


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