Moments of Foreshadowing 8 [TPatQ spoilers]

[Fire Eater]

Only, in the case of Tywin and Cersei, they were planning an event that never happened: the betrothal of Cersei and Rhaegar. You could argue it could be the same for Doran & Arianne. That whatever plan they have involving Aegon and a possible marriage contract, won't actually work out as originally intended, i.e. a marriage between Aegon and Arianne won't actually take place.

Except no marriage was planned to Aegon, but Viserys. The Viserys marriage plan didn't fall through. Cersei ended marrying king Robert, and I think Arianne may also end up marrying a non-Targaryen claimant, Aegon.

[ghosts in winterfell]

I haven't really been following these threads, so if this has already been brought up a million times please forgive me!

I was skimming through Theon I, ACOK and this little bit jumped out at me. Theon has just returned to Pyke and is waiting to meet his father:

[Theon recalls the history of his chambers in the Bloody Keep.]

But Greyjoys were not murdered in Pyke except once in a great while by their brothers, and his brothers were both dead.

Perhaps this could be some very early foreshadowing of Euron's suspected role in Balon's untimely death?

[Fire Eater]

"under that stinking chamber pot [of Rugen/Varys] was a loose stone, which opened on a small hollow? The sort of place where a man might hide his valuables that he did not wish to be discovered?"

. . .

"But as I crouched over the hole with my torch, I saw something glitter, so I scratched in the dirt until I dug it out." Qyburn opened his palm. "A gold coin."

Gold, yes, but the moment Cersei took it she could tell that it was wrong. Too small, she thought, too thin. The coin was old and worn. On one side was a king's face in profile, on the other side the imprint of a hand. "This is no dragon," she said.

"No," Qyburn agreed. "It dates from before the Conquest, Your Grace."

Coins have been known to have a king's head on one side. The coin was found under a stone while Varys had been hiding his king, Aegon. Something is wrong with the coin or king, and as Cersei says, it isn't a dragon, or a Targaryen. The Blackfyres predate Robert's conquest of the IT. Beneath Varys's crap or sordid career and actions, we find his hidden motive: Aegon and House Blackfyre.

[Mithras]

/snip

No comment on Taena being the agent of LF? I feel like this is a breakthrough. Honeypot (aka honeytrap) has been a method of espionage for thousands of years. LF should be the best employer of this method, given the brothels he owns. TV show made this point very clear.

[Dead Wolf]

"Under the sea the old fish eat the young fish, I know I know oh oh oh." Could this foreshadow the Blackfish retaking Riverrun and getting Edmure and his child killed?

[MoIaF]

Ragnorak, on 08 Mar 2014 - 4:27 PM, said:

We have her waking three times which fits with this idea of the dream and her theme of threes. First she wakes in drenched in shadow with ash rising to the smoke hole. She awakens again in darkness. She is passive, she doesn't try to rise and the wind outside her tent is flapping like wings. Her transformation is outside; she hasn't internalized it yet like in the dream. Her tent shields her from it. She drinks water that is warm and flat and cherishes it. She has been in this state too long. Finally she wakes a third time to "a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent." The place where ashes poured out is now a place wear golden sunlight pours in. She wants water but "as cold as you can find it" no longer satisfied with "warm and flat."

At least on a personal level, the symbolism of the dreaming sections seems to point toward a too long journey of darkness and shadow where she eventually completes her transformation into a "dragon" that allows her to return "home" to whatever she discovers as her true replacement for the house with the red door.

Ragnorak offered an excellent interpretation of Dany's three attempts to wake up after her fevered dream / miscarriage.

I noted that in her final awakening she asks for water "as cold as you can find it" if these three awakening represent three stages in her life then the last stage will most likely take place in the North of Westeros. The North is as cold as you can find.

[unSonofStannis]

Quentyn Martell entering the dragon chamber trying to tame the dragon but instead getting burned alive for his trouble I think symbolizes Dorans foolish illusions that he can use "Fire and Blood" to avenge Elia and her children.

Also the dragon represents Westeros roaring and breathing fire because Westeros is a chaotic mess (bit of a stretch there) and Quentyn represents Dorne trying to get more involved and maybe tame the situation in Westeros and bring it under their control like what I think Doran is doing by sending the Sand snakes to KL but in the end Dorne gets burned for their trouble.

[Ragnorak]

Ragnorak offered an excellent interpretation of Dany's three attempts to wake up after her fevered dream / miscarriage.

I noted that in her final awakening she asks for water "as cold as you can find it" if these three awakening represent three stages in her life then the last stage will most likely take place in the North of Westeros. The North is as cold as you can find.

I do think the cold water is a great catch. As a metaphor for home "warm and flat" also describes the Dothraki Sea which is another place she found home.

Dany's first two attempts at waking do seem to parallel her journey so far.

She woke to the taste of ashes.

“No,” she moaned, “no, please.”

...

The tent was drenched in shadow, still and close. Flakes of ash drifted upward from a brazier, and Dany followed them with her eyes through the smoke hole above. Flying, she thought. I had wings, I was flying. But it was only a dream. “Help me,” she whispered, struggling to rise. “Bring me…” Her voice was raw as a wound, and she could not think what she wanted. Why did she hurt so much?

After a time—a night, a day, a year, she could not say—she woke again. The tent was dark, its silken walls flapping like wings when the wind gusted outside. This time Dany did not attempt to rise. “Irri,” she called, “Jhiqui. Doreah.” They were there at once. “My throat is dry,” she said, “so dry,” and they brought her water. It was warm and flat, yet Dany drank it eagerly, and sent Jhiqui for more.

The world she was thrust into yet made into a "home" has been destroyed, burnt to ashes. She has been covered in shadow-- Varys' metaphor for the power of others. She wanders unsure of what she really wants asking the three groups in Qarth for help. Meereen fits well with the second waking and darkness. The flapping is outside the tent like she's exiled her dragons, her not even trying to rise matches the way she virtually abdicates ruling Meereen as she comes to marry Hizdar. As these are mostly thematic I think they also work if viewed as love or home in Dany's arc.

Both her third waking and the end of her dream seem to imply a happy ending of a sort.

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

Maybe there are more hints in the dragon egg. She'll ride Drogon but is Viserion's egg here she finds comfort in here. Fire Eater has done a magnificent job of piecing together The Dance 2.0 with foreshadowing. Dany finding comfort in the white dragon could hint at Dany losing to Aegon in the Dance (like Rhaenyra who was backed by the North) and finding shelter in the North. The white dragon also opens up Bloodraven speculation. It would seem logical that Bloodraven wouldn't be indifferent to Dany's fate.

This would imply that Dany lives to the end of the series but will not win the Iron Throne. There's plenty of margin for "bittersweet" in that outcome. With the emphasis on home with a direct comparison to the House with the Red Door and "arms to keep her warm" I don't get a sense of a political union. Perhaps Dany is the one who will get the Princess of Dragonflies ending. It opens up a good deal to speculate about.

[MoIaF]

Maybe there are more hints in the dragon egg. She'll ride Drogon but is Viserion's egg here she finds comfort in here. Fire Eater has done a magnificent job of piecing together The Dance 2.0 with foreshadowing. Dany finding comfort in the white dragon could hint at Dany losing to Aegon in the Dance (like Rhaenyra who was backed by the North) and finding shelter in the North. The white dragon also opens up Bloodraven speculation. It would seem logical that Bloodraven wouldn't be indifferent to Dany's fate.

This would imply that Dany lives to the end of the series but will not win the Iron Throne. There's plenty of margin for "bittersweet" in that outcome. With the emphasis on home with a direct comparison to the House with the Red Door and "arms to keep her warm" I don't get a sense of a political union. Perhaps Dany is the one who will get the Princess of Dragonflies ending. It opens up a good deal to speculate about.

It occurred to me that the dragon's egg might imply a baby, that would be something that Dany has always wanted. She is a dragon (as we'v been discussing) and she's holding one of her eggs, perhaps she'll be holding her own child in the end.

[Dead Wolf]

"Plots within plots, but all roads lead down the dragon's gullet." Could foreshadow a second Battle of the Gullet, which will be held by a dragon's fleet, be it Aegon's/Aurane's or Dany's/Victarion's.

[coil]

(a lot of interesting things)

This would imply that Dany lives to the end of the series but will not win the Iron Throne. There's plenty of margin for "bittersweet" in that outcome. With the emphasis on home with a direct comparison to the House with the Red Door and "arms to keep her warm" I don't get a sense of a political union. Perhaps Dany is the one who will get the Princess of Dragonflies ending. It opens up a good deal to speculate about.

It gotta be said that Mirri Maz Duur prophecy (the one that involves mountains blowing in the wind and the sun rising and setting in different positions - something that most likely you remember way better than me -_-) underlines that Dany will see Drogo again.

Dany is quick to dismiss the prophecy with a "this=never" equation, but judging how Dany's arc is full of prophecies that are believed to come true but actually do not (Astapor's green grace about Cleon, iirc - the HoTU has proven to contain lies - the whole Azor Ahai or breaker of chains business - the fact that as the last known Targ she would somehow thematically bound to get back her throne - the whole Stallion who Mounts the World, which some direct to Drogon while I disagree since it surely doesn't come from her womb - and so on), and given Dany's attitude to misjudge prophecies (the whole three treasons business) if there is a prophecy that I'm bound to believe it will come true, it's exactly this one: others have already traced similarities betwee Quentyn and the Sun setting and there are already hypotesis about the Mountains that should blow in the wind.

Now, if Drogo has been burned and his body is no more, there's only a way for our bride of fire to see him again.

Obligatory "nice connections" about your previous post. Sadly, about those I've got nothing worth of mention to add!

[MoIaF]

It gotta be said that Mirri Maz Duur prophecy (the one that involves mountains blowing in the wind and the sun rising and setting in different positions - something that most likely you remember way better than me -_-) underlines that Dany will see Drogo again.

Dany is quick to dismiss the prophecy with a "this=never" equation, but judging how Dany's arc is full of prophecies that are believed to come true but actually do not (Astapor's green grace about Cleon, iirc - the HoTU has proven to contain lies - the whole Azor Ahai or breaker of chains business - the fact that as the last known Targ she would somehow thematically bound to get back her throne - the whole Stallion who Mounts the World, which some direct to Drogon while I disagree since it surely doesn't come from her womb - and so on), and given Dany's attitude to misjudge prophecies (the whole three treasons business) if there is a prophecy that I'm bound to believe it will come true, it's exactly this one: others have already traced similarities betwee Quentyn and the Sun setting and there are already hypotesis about the Mountains that should blow in the wind.

Now, if Drogo has been burned and his body is no more, there's only a way for our bride of fire to see him again.

Obligatory "nice connections" about your previous post. Sadly, about those I've got nothing worth of mention to add!

I tend to think that if the prophecy is true at all (and I'm quite skeptical) Drogo return to Dany in form of Drogon. Besides, it's important to note that the question Dany asked MMD was "when will he be as he was" to which MMD's answer appropriately means never.

[coil]

I tend to think that if the prophecy is true at all (and I'm quite skeptical) Drogo return to Dany in form of Drogon. Besides, it's important to note that the question Dany asked MMD was "when will he be as he was" to which MMD's answer appropriately means never.

My apologies, I was referring to the italian edition, a brilliant translation that screwed me more than once.

A quick search on the net tells me this

“When will he {Drogo} be as he was?” Dany demanded.

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” said Mirri Maz Duur. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.”

Any native english can tell me if "be as he was" or other sentences have an open meaning?

[Ragnorak]

It gotta be said that Mirri Maz Duur prophecy (the one that involves mountains blowing in the wind and the sun rising and setting in different positions - something that most likely you remember way better than me -_-) underlines that Dany will see Drogo again.

Dany is quick to dismiss the prophecy with a "this=never" equation, but judging how Dany's arc is full of prophecies that are believed to come true but actually do not (Astapor's green grace about Cleon, iirc - the HoTU has proven to contain lies - the whole Azor Ahai or breaker of chains business - the fact that as the last known Targ she would somehow thematically bound to get back her throne - the whole Stallion who Mounts the World, which some direct to Drogon while I disagree since it surely doesn't come from her womb - and so on), and given Dany's attitude to misjudge prophecies (the whole three treasons business) if there is a prophecy that I'm bound to believe it will come true, it's exactly this one: others have already traced similarities betwee Quentyn and the Sun setting and there are already hypotesis about the Mountains that should blow in the wind.

Now, if Drogo has been burned and his body is no more, there's only a way for our bride of fire to see him again.

Obligatory "nice connections" about your previous post. Sadly, about those I've got nothing worth of mention to add!

Actually the MMD prophecy could tie in with Maester of Ice and Fire's notion of Dany having a baby.

“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” she said sadly. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child. Then you will return, my sun-and-stars, and not before.”

Dany having a child would require a father and that well could mean a husband. It doesn't literally have to be Drogo resurrected but could simply refer to a new love, a new Sun and Stars of her life. I would imagine the other elements would tie in somehow. As a hypothetical, Drogo her Sun and Stars has set in the east-- though he hadn't when MMD first spoke those words. A Dany settling down in the North with a new love would be her new Sun and Stars rising in the west. That would just leave us with the seas and mountains to tie in.

We're projecting an event that is likely at close to the very end of the series. That's a whole lot of dots to connect and interim predictions to make. There is potential in a personal motherhood ending for Dany after becoming the iconic Mysha amidst pain and a lack of fulfillment. I don't think having her dreams of being queen crushed yet finding personal happiness in love and a family would be a bad ending for Dany's arc. A lot of that depends on the twists in her road ahead but I can see it as a satisfying and bittersweet type of a resolution. I don't see a lot of personal happiness in Dany after Drogo dies. She definitely isn't happy in Meereen. Had Dany settled in Vaes Tolorro I suspect she would have found that very fulfilling if she could have set aside Viserys dream of the Iron Throne. She may get a second chance at a Vaes Tolorro of sorts. Hard to say, but how it might play out is fun to ponder.

[liuke]

Has someone already mention the foreshadowing around Lem Lemoncoat, where someone said that if he washed it would become a white cloak.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Has someone already mention the foreshadowing around Lem Lemoncoat, where someone said that if he washed it would become a white cloak.

Some believe this is a clue to his true identity as a former squire to Rhaegar...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96425-crackpot-alert-might-lem-be-richard-lonmouth/

[Lost Melnibonean]

I figured Sam would get wacked in the fighting I the Reach but then this stood out...

Sam nodded miserably. "I hate the cold," he said. "Last night I woke up in the dark and the fire had gone out and I was certain I was going to freeze to death by morning."

So I guess he will back to the North... just not for long, heh.

[Fire Eater]

Dany would make a poor meal for a wolf or lion

I think this foreshadows Dany fighting the Lannisters and Starks, and she won't be easy pickings for them.

We [Jon and the NW] are caught between the hammer and the anvil.

Annals of the Black Centaur, Septon Jorquen's exhaustively detailed work account of the nine years that Orbert Caswell had served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

The hammer and the anvil is used to describe the Battle of Redgrass Field with the black dragon, Daemon, being caught between the hammer and the anvil. LC Caswell as LC of the NW, and he was the "Black Centaur." I imagine since Jon took the black he would be a "Black Dragon" (not a in the sense of being a Blackfyre) so to speak.

Men say that he [Rhaegar] loved his harp better than his lance

Many a night she had watched Prince Rhaegar in the hall, playing his silver-stringed harp

At the welcoming feast, the prince had taken up his silver-stringed harp

He had a harp with silver strings." Ser Jorah's frown deepened until his eyebrows came together. "Prince Rhaegar played such a harp," he conceded.

A harp can be as dangerous as a sword in the right hands

Rhaegar had a silver harp that many people referred to him playing. The sword, Blackfyre, was used to knight Daemon and was given to him by his father, when Aegon IV publicly announced Daemon as his son. The sword would later be used as proof that Daemon was Aegon IV's rightful heir. Rhaegar's harp may be buried in Lyanna's crypt, and used as proof to add to the public reveal of Rhaegar being Jon's father and that he is the rightful king as Rhaegar played it often at feasts and tourneys with plenty of people watching.

[Mithras]

Annals of the Black Centaur, Septon Jorquen's exhaustively detailed work account of the nine years that Orbert Caswell had served as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch

The hammer and the anvil is used to describe the Battle of Redgrass Field with the black dragon, Daemon, being caught between the hammer and the anvil. LC Caswell as LC of the NW, and he was the "Black Centaur." I imagine since Jon took the black he would be a "Black Dragon" (not a in the sense of being a Blackfyre) so to speak.

“He [brandon] loved to ride. His little sister took after him in that. A pair of centaurs, those two.”

“Not even Lord Rickard’s daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself.”

Through his mother, Jon is also a Black Centaur.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Tyrion has a LOT of unfinished business in the Vale...

Tyrion felt a pang of rage. "You fucking son of a pox-ridden ass," he spat. "I hope you die of a bloody flux."

For that, Mord gave him a kick, driving a steel-toed boot hard into Tyrion's ribs on the way out. "I take it back!" he gasped as he doubled over on the straw. "I'll kill you myself, I swear it!" The heavy iron-bound door slammed shut. Tyrion heard the rattle of keys.

A Lannister always pays his debts...