Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 They both have mothers who encouraged their ambition and inflated egos i truly feel a 180 from this idea, friend. i think they're a result of mothers who discouraged everything. while cersei may have demonstrated support, it was in front of everyone else and to further lannister family pride. behind closed doors, even i the books, didnt she always instruct him, criticize him, and tell him the actions he's done is no proper way to act a king? when he becomes unruly, she becomes more silent, but this is more her own protection. but when she's with other people, she constantly berates how wrong she went with joffrey and how bad he turned out. really not much encouragement that i see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 id like to think, especially with joffrey, that everything he did was an act of defiance of family, particularly cersei.his bullying of sansa (female), may be similar to my theory on ramsay's mother issues. he does tend to try to strip away sansa's name, her family, everything she was. taking away her heritage, her nobility, the Lady in her (symbolism that the next chapter after Joffrey gets bitten by Nymeria that Lady gets killed by Joffrey's word, it symbolizes Joffrey's succes in killing the Lady in Sansa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashOfQueens Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 i'd also like to add Cersei's apparent hatred for men into the mix which may have came out on Joffrey. cersei always wanted to be said ruler and always hated that she was born a woman. forced to wed against her will, she would definitely harbor a hatred for those above her and the male line. this could have been demonstrated as verbal and mental abuse toward her eldest son, who would be true heir even before her if and when robert would die on the throne. on a side note, the exception to this rule and her hatred for men, the only male she connects with, is her own mirror imaged male. eta: actually, add rhaegar to that as well, i think i remember her saying how beautiful he was soemwhereIt's not really hate for men in my opinion, maybe irritation because they remind her how powerless she is in westerosi society. She thinks herself above men and women alike, and the only reason she'd want to be a man is because of the inherent power, status and domination with comes with sex in a powerful family. Could this be a trait of inferiority complex? (possible personality trait inherited by Joffrey) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 It's not really hate for men in my opinion, maybe irritation because they remind her how powerless she is in westerosi society. She thinks herself above men and women alike, and the only reason she'd want to be a man is because of the inherent power, status and domination with comes with sex in a powerful family. Could this be a trait of inferiority complex? (possible personality trait inherited by Joffrey) it couldbe as well. it's not battered wife syndrome or anything like that, as she exhibits her own rebellions against those in power and doesnt take it like sansa does. in my eyes, cersei's opinion of women = "I never had a choice, or power, so you shouldnt either. i will do everything i can to take away yours. you ar enothing, like i am/was." cersei's opinion of men = "i hate you for what you put me through growing up, being forced to marry against my will, never having the ability to make militaristic/political decisions. i hate you for your station above me. however, because i am female, i can use my seduction to make the mighty male bend before my will (as exhibited with kettleblacks, etc)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashOfQueens Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 It all boils down to individuality and egoism with poor coping skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 to cersei, men are the reason she never rose up, despite the weak, filthy creatures they are. i think she is more lesbian than straight, or at least a really strong bisexual to the other end. her reasons for sleeping with jaime appear to be narcissistic, since they're so alike physically (this further demonstrated how she always HATED his beard, as it made him look less like her and HATED when he cut his hair) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 It all boils down to individuality and egoism with poor coping skills joffrey yes. i agree. ramsay maybe not so much, he may not have had a choice given his upbringing and where he's come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashOfQueens Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I agree, Cercei did not love Jamie as an individual; I believe that she wanted to be him more than anything. Sexual orientation is irrelevant, in my opinion, because she seems to use sex as a weapon and as a means to control, regardless of sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I agree, Cercei did not love Jamie as an individual; I believe that she wanted to be him more than anything. Sexual orientation is irrelevant, in my opinion, because she seems to use sex as a weapon and as a means to control, regardless of sex. cersei has never loved, i dont think. ever. the only way she was ever in power, even for a moment, is when she was jaime, ie, he was in her and they were "one." the kettleblacks, lancel, robert, all for advancing herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 even moonboy, for all i know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashOfQueens Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Would this make Cercei a narcissistic psychopath as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 i'd also like to add Cersei's apparent hatred for men into the mix which may have came out on Joffrey. cersei always wanted to be said ruler and always hated that she was born a woman. forced to wed against her will, she would definitely harbor a hatred for those above her and the male line. this could have been demonstrated as verbal and mental abuse toward her eldest son, who would be true heir even before her if and when robert would die on the throne. on a side note, the exception to this rule and her hatred for men, the only male she connects with, is her own mirror imaged male. eta: actually, add rhaegar to that as well, i think i remember her saying how beautiful he was soemwhere I don't know where you're getting the idea that Cersei hated/abused Joff. Cersei spoils the shit out of Joffrey. Robert was the one who could be said to be somewhat abusive (but more neglectful) toward him. In the show she sometimes scolds him behind closed doors, but in the books she sings his praises all the time and pretty much lets him run wild, telling him what a great "Lion" he is. The irony is he becomes a much worse woman-abuser than her husband With Tommen she is meaner and more controlling, but he is a young child and she has been through some serious trauma by the time he becomes King Roose also says that Ramsay's mom was always "whispering in his ear about his rights." She must have told Ramsay who his father was, even though Roose forbade it. Why would she do that, unless she thought he was owed some power by Roose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClashOfQueens Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 even moonboy, for all i know. It is known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I don't know where you're getting the idea that Cersei hated/abused Joff. Cersei spoils the shit out of Joffrey. Robert was the one who could be said to be somewhat abusive (but more neglectful) toward him. Cersei sings his praises all the time and pretty much lets him run wild, telling him what a great "Lion" he is. The irony is he becomes a much worse woman-abuser than her husband With Tommen she is meaner and more controlling, but he is a young child and she has been through some serious trauma by the time he becomes King Roose also says that Ramsay's mom was always "whispering in his ear about his rights." She must have told Ramsay who his father was, even though Roose forbade it. Why would she do that, unless she thought he was owed some power by Roose? with roose, this is all heresay and how would he genuinely know what she was whispering to him? she couldve been like, "you're a little SHIT and i NEVER should have had you, do you understand? the only reason ive kept you ALIVE is because your father is the lord of the dreadfort. you WILL get us in there, do you understand? youre just a bastard... but you will be the bastard to gets us out of this hellhole..." eta: in a situation like that, if he's heard that repeatedly for however long hes been alive, id liek to think that would engender a hatred for his mother, for women, AND instill an inferiority complex AND hate the title, "bastard." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 i remember a lot of cersei verbally correcting him and telling him what he shoulddo, and joffrey constantly reminding her that he's the kign and he'll do what he wants. they feed each other's hatred of each other, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 i remember a lot of cersei verbally correcting him and telling him what he shoulddo, and joffrey constantly reminding her that he's the kign and he'll do what he wants. they feed each other's hatred of each other, you know? Giving good advice is hatred? Anyone of intelligence who saw how Joffrey behaved would try to correct him. Tywin does that too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 he's king at this point though, and it could be possible theyre choosing their words carefully. all im saying is that joffrey's actions, his rebellions, his hunger for attention and craving for people to like him through public displays of cruelty, have to stem from somewhere. you know what i mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 he's king at this point though, and it could be possible theyre choosing their words carefully. all im saying is that joffrey's actions, his rebellions, his hunger for attention and craving for people to like him through public displays of cruelty, have to stem from somewhere. you know what i mean? I agree. But not from any negative feelings from Cersei. They stem from Robert's neglect and fame, and Joffrey's desire to impress him and live up to him. They also stem from an inherent sociopathic/sadistic streak, exacerbated by power. Finally, they stem from Cersei's coddling and encouraging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 I agree. But not from any negative feelings from Cersei. They stem from Robert's neglect and fame, and Joffrey's desire to impress him and live up to him. They also stem from an inherent sociopathic/sadistic streak, exacerbated by power. Finally, they stem from Cersei's coddling and encouraging i really wish we had more hard evidence of robert and joffrey. i mean yes, it's there, rarely, the scene where cersei makes robert enforce lady's death, i think robert scolds joffrey a little. but there isnt a plethora that we see between robert and joffrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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