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Howland Reed = High Septon?


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There is no reason in the world to assume that a Lord of Westeros may be illiterate in the common tongue especially.

Did you forget Robb sent him... letters?

I'm afraid this is a very poor assumption on your part, and a poor argument in general against this theory.

As has been stated, HR would not have to give up his religion in order to play a part, as a means to an end. As far as we know, the High Sparrow performed naming ceremonies and marriages, and is now involved in Cersei's trial. There is no evidence that the High Sparrow gives scholarly lectures on the Faith.

Any child on the planet can know the basics of many religions, know the words to ceremonies etc.

People play roles all the time in the series, and they often get away with it because others see what they want/expect to see. Arya is a great example of this throughout.

Your example that HR cannot possibly pretend to be someone else - It would be like meeting Abel the Bard, and presuming he could not possibly be the King in the North because he's just a Bard and that's all he knows.

Oops that happened. He was actually Mance.

Edit: typo

Why? Are lords in Westeros born literate?

The letters aren't addressed to Howland Reed, they are addressed, says Robb, to "Those lords of mine who remain in the north..." and then Robb turns to the two messengers, Galbert Glover and Maege Mormont, and says "Tell Howland Reed..."

My assumption stands.

And, again, I never said HR gave up his religion? Your counterarguments are so poor you are are addressing things I never said.

On religious knowledge, if it is so easy to acquire why is there a septa instructing fAegon every day on it and who has apparently been doing so for years?

And your assertion that the High Septon of the religion of the seven could get away with no in depth knowledge of it, is frankly ludicrous, do you think perhaps that he got to be the leader of the sparrows unchallenged on his knowledge of doctrine? That he preached no sermons? That in trying Maergery and Cersei he didn't have to show some theological knowledge or knowledge of ecclesiastical law?

Any child on the planet can know the basics of many religions, know the words to ceremonies etc.

Really? Just like that? I suppose any child on the planet is also born knowing the theory of relativity.

Right, Game of Thrones

To make a point, it takes about a year for an average student to earn a Maester's Link (proficiency in a subject). A particularly motivated student (Alleras for example) can earn three per year.

There is no reason Howland Reed could not have become very knowledgeable about the Fot7 in a years time, more or less, especially if motivated by a plan.

Also, everything we know about the High Sparrow has to be filtered through Cersei's eyes.

The only other times he is mention is by Randall Tarly in the ADWD epilogue, an offhand comment about the Sparrows, and by Doran Martell in Areo's ADWD chapter, that he isn't the puppet the other High Septons were.

So, everything is Cersei's POV, and her perceptions, which are often misperceptions, as most of us know. She's self-delusional, biased, and judgemental.

If she sees a frail old man and a bunch of ugly old women, that's what we're led to see.

Say Roose Bolton had a POV in Harrenhal. He might mention his new cupbearer Nan, and by his perception of her, it might be difficult to guess she is Arya Stark, especially since sensitive information about the Starks is discussed in her presence.

So the main arguments against this theory... age, appearance, knowledge of the Faith... are non-arguments to me.

Alleras happens to be a very well educated Westerosi... Oberyn ensured all his daughters had a good education so it is hardly surprising she does so well in the citadel. She does not belong to an alien culture.

As to HR acquiring such knowledge I repeat my point above, why has fAegon been instructed by a septa for most of his young life if it is so easy to acquire?

Your argument about Cersei's POV cuts both ways and is therefore irrelevant.

So the main arguments against this theory... age, appearance, knowledge of the Faith... are non-arguments to me.

So what is the point then? You are obviously right simply because you say you are right...

My main point is that HR comes from a culture so different to that presently dominant in Westeros is that it would be well nigh impossible for him to fool most of the people most of the time. It is not the sort of knowledge that could be acquired by simply reading books in Grey Watch if that is indeed what he did.

Now there is another matter, why would HR do such a thing? Why do you insist that someone who appears to be a basically decent guy suddenly decides to behave in a scummy sadistic and violent manner as HS?

Maybe an argument for another day.

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Why is it unlikely? From a narrative standpoint, the High Sparrow makes much more sense if he is exactly who he says he is...

so from a narrative standpoint it makes more sense to invent in a gamechanging character out of nowhere with no background or history (deus ex machina-style) instead of introducing a character whose appearance has been awaited for 5 books and who is known to have gamechanging informations?

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