Jump to content

The Brightfyre theory


Veltigar

Recommended Posts

I've been thinking about how much sense Varys' castration might make in the proposed scenario. if he and Serra are related, the team-up with Illyrio Blackfyre would be essential to getting his 'blood' on the throne. If he'd not been castrated, he would have presumably tried to make a son himself, and put him on the throne. After castration, pairing Serra with Illyrio is perfect for all concerned. Varys might be the last male Brightflame (with no sperm), so Blackflame is a great solution for him.

Why the sorcerous nature of Varys' castration, couldn't he have just been castrated without the mystical burning and the disembodied voice?

Isn't it a tad risky in betting that "Aegon" the son of Illyrio and Sera in your scenario would grow up to look enough like Rhaegar to fool anyone, much less Jon Connington? Especially since there is nothing to suggest that either Sera or Illyrio shared a resemblance to Rhaegar?

And the one thing that everyone is ignoring is why is Illyrio so unconcerned with Dany meeting up with the Golden Company at Volantis? Surely Illyrio with his influence knows that Volantis is plotting to take Dany down. If his concern is putting Aegon on the Iron Throne because Aegon is his son, a Blackfyre, than Illyrio would have Dany and the Golden Company meet anywhere but Volantis. Or at the very least send a warning to Dany and/or Griff about the danger that Volantis poses. But he doesn't. Even Tyrion smells a rat in ADWD:

Tyrion pondered all he knew of Volantis, oldest and proudest of the Nine Free Cities. Something was awry here. Even with half a nose, he could smell it. "It's said there are five slaves for every free man in Volantis. Why would the triarchs assist a queen who smashed the slave trade?"

Illyrio never answers this question. Yet by having the Golden Company and Dany meet up right outside of Volantis he is assuring that the Golden Company and Dany are going to be in for a battle before they could even start heading for Westeros. For that matter, is it a coincidence that a Dothraki horde led by a former lieutenant of Drago's also happens to be camped out by Volantis?

The answer should be obvious. Illyrio's target is not Westeros, it's Volantis. Thus Illyrio's main objective is not to put a Blackfyre or his son or whatever this theory suggests on the Iron Throne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A couple small items.

This could be taken as a hint that there is a "why" behind Varys' selection of Illyrio.

This can be a hint that Illyrio is in fact more than he appears to readers. Both are minor but could serve to support the theory since it has been established with other evidence.

I really like LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse's catch with the blackberry bushes and blackberry wine. Great catch!

As a whole this theory, and even a Brightflame exclusive one, relies on the same core high level concepts-- an ousted Targaryen branch with a grudge looking to take back the Iron Throne and a combination of family and marriage ties to unite Illyrio and Varys behind an authentic Aegon of House Targaryen that just isn't Rhaegar's son.

I do share Lady Gwynhyfvar's curiosity about the Blackfyre and Brightflame roles being potentially reversed. The Blackfyre claim is the one so strongly tied to the notion of being better fit to rule which seems to be far more of a Varys theme than it does an Illyrio one. Some of the D&E foreshadowing elements could possibly support a reversal, but the Egg castration threats (which are great clues) seem to only work with Varys as an Aerion descendant. Aerion's descendants entering the equation at some point is a likelihood and this offers a very plausible way to integrate this into the story. I have questions based on some of that theme reversal, but none of those questions rise to the level of discounting the premise. Very well done.

I strongly agree with the bolded. A Brightflame-Blackfyre heritage has long been my favourite interpretation for young Aegon and to me Varys and Serra being the Brightflames makes the most sense. What troubled me initially was that, as originally presented, I didn't see a lot of clarity in the op as to why it should be one way and not the other, so I felt the need to challenge the conclusion. I have to say that over the many pages of this thread that has been rectified, and I'm glad to see that Veltigar has updated the op with the many excellent observations made here. As I see it, there are still some minor questions to be answered, but the symbolic and metatextual evidence offered in the previous pages more than supports the conclusion. Well done indeed :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I strongly agree with the bolded. A Brightflame-Blackfyre heritage has long been my favourite interpretation for young Aegon and to me Varys and Serra being the Brightflames makes the most sense. What troubled me initially was that, as originally presented, I didn't see a lot of clarity in the op as to why it should be one way and not the other, so I felt the need to challenge the conclusion. I have to say that over the many pages of this thread that has been rectified, and I'm glad to see that Veltigar has updated the op with the many excellent observations made here. As I see it, there are still some minor questions to be answered, but the symbolic and metatextual evidence offered in the previous pages more than supports the conclusion. Well done indeed :cheers:

Aren't we mixing our symbolism up a bit if we make Aegon a Brightflame/Blackfyre? I mean after all the biggest OMG symbol hinting at Aegon's true heritage is the black iron dragon, rusted red washed up on the isle. If he is a Brightflame/Blackfyre doesn't that deflate the meaning of the symbol a bit (by like half?). And it still really doesn't answer the question as to why Aegon would look anything like Rhaegar?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aren't we mixing our symbolism up a bit if we make Aegon a Brightflame/Blackfyre? I mean after all the biggest OMG symbol hinting at Aegon's true heritage is the black iron dragon, rusted red washed up on the isle. If he is a Brightflame/Blackfyre doesn't that deflate the meaning of the symbol a bit (by like half?). And it still really doesn't answer the question as to why Aegon would look anything like Rhaegar?

Couldn't that be viewed as a dragon that is both red and black? And I'm not sure he's been said to look like Rhaegar so much as like a Targaryen. If his mother and father are both direct descendants of Targ princes, I don't see that as a question tbh. They would be cousins, no big mystery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couldn't that be viewed as a dragon that is both red and black? And I'm not sure he's been said to look like Rhaegar so much as like a Targaryen. If his mother and father are both direct descendants of Targ princes, I don't see that as a question tbh. They would be cousins, no big mystery.

ETA: the symbol isn't a red and black dragon, the symbol is a black dragon that appears to be red (because of the rust). The rust is a façade hiding the true (black) nature of the dragon.

Well if he doesn't look at all like Rhaegar wouldn't Connington be a tad suspicious? I mean we don't even know if either parent has the Targaryen purple eyes. And still no one has bothered to address why Illyrio is having Dany and Golden Company meet up outside Volantis, considering Volantis vote to go to war with Dany (voted on by Illyrio's own personal politician)and the budding slave revolt using Dany's name to incite a riot. I mean I know it's much easier just to ignore anything that doesn't go hand in hand with a favorite theory, but why does GRRM go into so much detail concerning the goings on in Volantis, and why does Illyrio seem so blissfully unaware or unconcerned with any of it?

If Illyrio's goal is to put "Aegon" on the Iron Throne because he is a Blackfyre, this scenario really doesn't make any sense. If Illyrio has a different goal in mind (i.e. sacrificing the Golden Company and Dany to help overthrow the Volantis rule) then what he's doing kind of does make sense. It also answers another interesting question, why does Illyrio originally use a Dothraki horde in his bid to attack King's Landing, when the Dothrakis are very afraid of crossing the sea? Now if Illyrio never intended on them going to Westeros, it starts to make sense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couldn't that be viewed as a dragon that is both red and black? And I'm not sure he's been said to look like Rhaegar so much as like a Targaryen. If his mother and father are both direct descendants of Targ princes, I don't see that as a question tbh. They would be cousins, no big mystery.

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, as it regards FFR's concerns about Aegon looking like Rhaegar, it would have been apparent by the time the boy reached age 5 – when Jon Con took possession of him – if he was going to have the Targaryen look. Need he look specifically like Rhaegar to pull this off? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, does Jon Con ever say that the boy looks like Rhaegar? I know he mentions that Rhaegar has darker eyes, but I don't recall anything else offhand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, as it regards FFR's concerns about Aegon looking like Rhaegar, it would have been apparent by the time the boy reached age 5 – when Jon Con took possession of him – if he was going to have the Targaryen look. Need he look specifically like Rhaegar to pull this off? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, does Jon Con ever say that the boy looks like Rhaegar? I know he mentions that Rhaegar has darker eyes, but I don't recall anything else offhand.

Sorry, these are awfully weak arguments. I also turn your attention to Doran's chapters with Arianne where he hands her the Onyx dragon. Another foreshadowing of an alliance with a black dragon. And still no one has addressed the Volantis issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, these are awfully weak arguments. I also turn your attention to Doran's chapters with Arianne where he hands her the Onyx dragon. Another foreshadowing of an alliance with a black dragon. And still no one has addressed the Volantis issue.

And, sorry, but that's rich considering the lack of evidence you've put forth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not really suggesting anyone believes my theory like I stated it's more of a gut feeling at this stage in the series, I'm just providing alternatives that I think may be possible that no one else has brought up.

And it's not like I'm disagreeing with the entire theory, there's parts of it I like, like Aegon being a Blackfyre and Varys being a Brightfyre. My issue is with the leap everyone is making that this must mean Aegon is the son of Illyrio and or Serra. There are too many details set up in the books that doesn't jive with this conclusion and no one is giving me a satisfactory answer to the questions I've raised. And maybe it's the lawyer in me but the burden of proof rests on the person advancing the theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, as it regards FFR's concerns about Aegon looking like Rhaegar, it would have been apparent by the time the boy reached age 5 – when Jon Con took possession of him – if he was going to have the Targaryen look. Need he look specifically like Rhaegar to pull this off? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, does Jon Con ever say that the boy looks like Rhaegar? I know he mentions that Rhaegar has darker eyes, but I don't recall anything else offhand.

Yes, the black dragon (from his father's heritage) becomes a red dragon (through the mother's heritage) and perhaps the washing up could even be seen as a birth metaphor. Certainly we've seen being pulled from the river as a rebirth in story.

And no, I think he's merely described as having a Targ look. The one time he's thought of wrt to Rhaegar (by JonCon as you said) he actually comes up short.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the black dragon (from his father's heritage) becomes a red dragon (through the mother's heritage) and perhaps the washing up could even be seen as a birth metaphor. Certainly we've seen being pulled from the river as a rebirth in story.

And no, I think he's merely described as having a Targ look. The one time he's thought of wrt to Rhaegar (by JonCon as you said) he actually comes up short.

I really think you're overcomplicating the symbolism to the point of meaningless. The beauty of the symbol lies in it's subtlety and it's simplicity. A black dragon (Blackfyre) is washed up on shore (sails to Westeros) but is rusted red (is pretending that he is the heir of the last Targaryen dynasty, thus a red dragon.

Making Aegon a Blackfyre/Brightflame not only ruins the symbolism (and the symbolism of Doran handing Arianne the onyx dragon) but it places too much importance on the character IMO.

I think what we're seeing is a number of grudges both in Westeros and Essos coming to a head at once. We have Aegar's legacy in the Golden Company, Blackfyre's legacy in Aegon, and Brightflame's legacy in Varys. Coming to a head. I think Illyrio is championing Serra's legacy, I just don't think her legacy is the Blackfyre and or Brightflame.

And I'm still waiting for someone to answer the reason that Illyrio is having the Golden Company meet up with Dany outside of Vontis.

(And as an aside, I hope no one is taking my criticism of the theory as a personal criticism (I've had this happen before). Starkgaryen is one of my favorite posters, and Lady G, I've put you down as one of the three most interesting posters on this board)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I really think you're overcomplicating the symbolism to the point of meaningless. The beauty of the symbol lies in it's subtlety and it's simplicity. A black dragon (Blackfyre) is washed up on shore (sails to Westeros) but is rusted red (is pretending that he is the heir of the last Targaryen dynasty, thus a red dragon.

Making Aegon a Blackfyre/Brightflame not only ruins the symbolism (and the symbolism of Doran handing Arianne the onyx dragon) but it places too much importance on the character IMO.

I think what we're seeing is a number of grudges both in Westeros and Essos coming to a head at once. We have Aegar's legacy in the Golden Company, Blackfyre's legacy in Aegon, and Brightflame's legacy in Varys. Coming to a head. I think Illyrio is championing Serra's legacy, I just don't think her legacy is the Blackfyre and or Brightflame.

And I'm still waiting for someone to answer the reason that Illyrio is having the Golden Company meet up with Dany outside of Vontis.

(And as an aside, I hope no one is taking my criticism of the theory as a personal criticism (I've had this happen before). Starkgaryen is one of my favorite posters, and Lady G, I've put you down as one of the three most interesting posters on this board)

Well it's probably no surprise that I disagree with the bold.

As to Volantis, I didn't see your question but I assume that as Dany and Aegon were also to meet there the answer is self evident?

At any rate, thanks for the kind words :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Making Aegon a Blackfyre/Brightflame not only ruins the symbolism (and the symbolism of Doran handing Arianne the onyx dragon) but it places too much importance on the character IMO.

How does it ruin the symbolism? Does the fact that Cat is half Whent ruin the symbolism of tGoHH's dreams where she is a fish? Should it have been a half bat-half fish creature? Does the fact that the Baratheon bros are half Estermont ruin any Stag symbolism with them? Should they be described as shell'd stags or something?

And I'm still waiting for someone to answer the reason that Illyrio is having the Golden Company meet up with Dany outside of Vontis.

IIRC, you think Illyrio has it out for the Volanteen or something. I don't think anyone has responded to this because it isn't relevant to any theories besides yours? Them meeting there is an ideal location to meet if Dany had continued westward. They could meet there and from there travel to Dorne to begin the invasion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Making Aegon a Blackfyre/Brightflame not only ruins the symbolism (and the symbolism of Doran handing Arianne the onyx dragon) but it places too much importance on the character IMO.

Why would it ruin the symbolism? The whole Targaryen/Blackfyre family tree is so messed up that it's a miracle there is symbolism parting them at all.

Plus, Aerion Brightflame wasn't a typical member of his branch and time of the family. He was one of the only two know mad Targaryens at the time but he wasn't gentle as Rhaegel was and he didn't seem to have a decent bone in his body. In fact, he was just as much of an abomination as Maelys Blackfyre and seemed to have been born one (unlike even the Mad King who only got mad later). If there is a Targaryen who was so different from the other Targaryens, it was Aerion. He was never like the rest of the red dragons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frey family reunion, maybe Illyrio was thinking of Volantis as a practice run before putting up the money to send Dany, Aegon and the GC all the way to Westeros. Or maybe he was hoping Dany would be killed, leaving the field clear for Aegon to take the IT.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

...

And I'm still waiting for someone to answer the reason that Illyrio is having the Golden Company meet up with Dany outside of Vontis.

...

I don't think anyone has answered because your original notion of Illyrio wanting to take Volantis and not Westeros is... well just absurd.

...

The answer should be obvious. Illyrio's target is not Westeros, it's Volantis. Thus Illyrio's main objective is not to put a Blackfyre or his son or whatever this theory suggests on the Iron Throne.

Illyrio pretty much flat out tells Tyrion why they are going to Volantis:

“Our last news of Queen Daenerys is old and stale, I fear. By now she will have left Meereen, we must assume. She has her host at last, a ragged host of sellswords, Dothraki horselords, and Unsullied infantry, and she will no doubt lead them west, to take back her father’s throne.” Magister Illyrio twisted open a pot of garlic snails, sniffed at them, and smiled. “At Volantis, you will have fresh tidings of Daenerys, we must hope,” he said, as he sucked one from its shell. “Dragons and young girls are both capricious, and it may be that you will need to adjust your plans. Griff will know what to do.

Not so. I trust Griff as I would trust a brother.”

Another mortal error. “Then I shall do likewise.”

The Golden Company marches toward Volantis as we speak, there to await the coming of our queen out of the east.”

Dany has dragons. Aside from the raw military value of dragons and the political weight having dragons on your side carries in terms of winning over allies, there is the symbolic value of an Aegon landing with three dragons like the original conquest. The value of meeting up with Dany and her three dragons is not a mystery that requires solving.

Illyrio is not going himself. He has put Griff in charge. Griff is Jon Connington and we get JonCon's POV while he is in Volantis. If Illyrio wants to use the GC to conquer Volantis and he isn't going to meet the GC himself, it follows that he would need to actually tell either Griff or the Golden Company to ... you know ... take Volantis.

During Jon Connington's POV, where he is totally ignorant of Illyrio wanting him to take Volantis and thinks his mission is to go to Westeros, he talks with the Golden Company about future plans.

“Which plan?” said Tristan Rivers. “The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

Tristan Rivers of the Golden Company is under the impression that "the fat man," which I assume is Illyrio and not code for the A-bomb, wants them to go to Volantis to meet Dany and then head to Westeros. Apparently he never got the memo that he was supposed to take the city either.

The route back to Westeros passes Volantis and with thousands of people there is a great likelihood that Volantis will be a resupply stop. If it isn't a resupply stop for a force of thousands on their way to Westeros it is the place to hear rumors about a force of thousands sailing west from Slavers Bay. There is no mystery to be solved here except how anyone who read A Dance with Dragons could possibly ever think Illyrio intended to take Volantis with the Golden Company. We have Illyrio's military commander's POV in Volantis immediately after Illyrio sent him to Volantis and said commander and everyone he interacts with thinks they're going to Westeros and no one thinks that they're supposed to take Volantis.

I don't mean to sound harsh but this isn't even crackpot territory, it is just a basic reading comprehension topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think anyone has answered because your original notion of Illyrio wanting to take Volantis and not Westeros is... well just absurd.

Illyrio pretty much flat out tells Tyrion why they are going to Volantis:

“Our last news of Queen Daenerys is old and stale, I fear. By now she will have left Meereen, we must assume. She has her host at last, a ragged host of sellswords, Dothraki horselords, and Unsullied infantry, and she will no doubt lead them west, to take back her father’s throne.” Magister Illyrio twisted open a pot of garlic snails, sniffed at them, and smiled. “At Volantis, you will have fresh tidings of Daenerys, we must hope,” he said, as he sucked one from its shell. “Dragons and young girls are both capricious, and it may be that you will need to adjust your plans. Griff will know what to do.

Not so. I trust Griff as I would trust a brother.”

Another mortal error. “Then I shall do likewise.”

The Golden Company marches toward Volantis as we speak, there to await the coming of our queen out of the east.”

Dany has dragons. Aside from the raw military value of dragons and the political weight having dragons on your side carries in terms of winning over allies, there is the symbolic value of an Aegon landing with three dragons like the original conquest. The value of meeting up with Dany and her three dragons is not a mystery that requires solving.

Illyrio is not going himself. He has put Griff in charge. Griff is Jon Connington and we get JonCon's POV while he is in Volantis. If Illyrio wants to use the GC to conquer Volantis and he isn't going to meet the GC himself, it follows that he would need to actually tell either Griff or the Golden Company to ... you know ... take Volantis.

During Jon Connington's POV, where he is totally ignorant of Illyrio wanting him to take Volantis and thinks his mission is to go to Westeros, he talks with the Golden Company about future plans.

“Which plan?” said Tristan Rivers. “The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

Tristan Rivers of the Golden Company is under the impression that "the fat man," which I assume is Illyrio and not code for the A-bomb, wants them to go to Volantis to meet Dany and then head to Westeros. Apparently he never got the memo that he was supposed to take the city either.

The route back to Westeros passes Volantis and with thousands of people there is a great likelihood that Volantis will be a resupply stop. If it isn't a resupply stop for a force of thousands on their way to Westeros it is the place to hear rumors about a force of thousands sailing west from Slavers Bay. There is no mystery to be solved here except how anyone who read A Dance with Dragons could possibly ever think Illyrio intended to take Volantis with the Golden Company. We have Illyrio's military commander's POV in Volantis immediately after Illyrio sent him to Volantis and said commander and everyone he interacts with thinks they're going to Westeros and no one thinks that they're supposed to take Volantis.

I don't mean to sound harsh but this isn't even crackpot territory, it is just a basic reading comprehension topic.

Well Tyrion would disagree with your assertion that there is no mystery requiring solving, once again

"...Many and more will perish, but those who survive will be stronger by the time they reach Volantis... where they shall find you and Griff awaiting them, with fresh forces and sufficient ships to carry them all across the sea to Westeros."

Tyrion pondered all he knew of Volantis, oldest and proudest of the Nine Free Cities. Something was awry here. Even with half a nose he could smell it. "It's said there are five slaves for every free man in Volantis. Why would the triarchs assist a queen who smashed the slave trade?"

Interestingly enough, Illyrio never gets around to answering this question.

The mistake in your assumption above is that Illyrio plans on using the Golden Company to take Volantis. The Golden Company and Dany's army are being used as patsies to ignite a slave revolt within the city.

Once the Golden Company and Dany's forces join up, Volantis is going to assume (especially in light of the events of Slaver's Bay) that an Dany and the Golden Company are a threat and react accordingly. The Volantis forces at this point are going to be split, one group dealing with Dany and the Golden Company, and the other group dealing with the 30,000 Dothraki riders that just so happen to be waiting across the river from Volantis.

In the meantime, inside the city the red priests have already riled up the populace using Dany's name to rally them. Dany's arrival and the ensuing clash between Volantis and Dany/Golden Company is the spark that starts the slave uprising. The Golden Company is not meant to take Volantis, the red priests and the slaves are.

Normally you would be right that Volantis would be a good place to stop and resupply. Except for now, when the city is on the verge of declaring war against Dany and her name is being used to stir the slaves up against the rulers of Old Volantis. It would be very unlikely that someone involved in trade like Illyrio would not have received any information concerning Volantis antipathy towards Dany. Rumors of war are even being bandied about the Rhoyne

"What word from Old Volantis?" Yandry called.

"War," the word came back.

"Where?" Griff shouted. "When?"

"When the year turns," came the answer, "Nyessos and Malaquo go hand in hand, and the elephants show stripes." The voice faded as the other boat moved away from them...

"Elephants with stripes?" Griff muttered. "What is that about? Nyessos and Malaquo? Illyrio has paid Triarch Nyessos enough to own him eight times over."

Tyrion who has already questioned Illyrio about the wisdom of Dany going to Volantis considering she just destroyed the slave trade out of Slaver's Bay thinks

Volantes, yet it seemed to him that elephants and tigers might have good reason to make common cause when faced with dragons. Might be the cheesemonger has misjudged the situation. You can buy a man with gold, but only blood and steel will keep him true.

It seems extremely odd that Illyrio would not have at least given any warning to Connington about the trouble being stirred up in Volantis concerning Dany. Yet it is obvious that Connington is caught flat footed. We can assume perhaps that Illyrio is an absolute moron who just assumed that Dany after having conquered and destroyed three cities in Slaver's Bay would show up outside of Volantis, join up with a sellsword company and this not have any repercussions.

Unless of course Illyrio hasn't misjudged the situation, but instead is actively trying to manipulate this scenario into occurring.

It's also inconceivable that Illyrio would be ignorant of Dany's name being used to stir up a slave revolt considering that it's being shouted to thousands in the streets of Volantis

The Volantene waved a hand. "In Volantis, thousands of slaves and freedmen crowd the temple plaza every night to hear Benerro shriek of bleeding stars and a sword of fire that will cleanse the world. He has been preaching that Volantis will surely burn if the triarchs take up arms against the silver queen.

And this is the scenario that Illyrio is trying to create IMO. The Golden Company doesn't know because it is unlikely that they would have agreed to sacrifice themselves to help Illyrio overthrow the Volantis regime. They are not Illyrio's private army, they are a sellsword company that wants to return to Westeros. Illyrio is manipulating them just like he's manipulating Dany.

And thank you for trying not to sound harsh, otherwise your reply could have been really obnoxious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FFU, I don't know whether this is the right thread on discussing Illyrio and Volantis but I really can't see Illyrio desiring to take Volantis. However, I strongly agree with you that something does not feel right about his strategies at first sight.



Tyrion pondered all he knew of Volantis, oldest and proudest of the Nine Free Cities. Something was awry here. Even with half a nose, he could smell it. “It’s said there are five slaves for every free man in Volantis. Why would the triarchs assist a queen who smashed the slave trade?” He pointed at Illyrio. “For that matter, why would you? Slavery may be forbidden by the laws of Pentos, yet you have a finger in that trade as well, and maybe a whole hand. And yet you conspire for the dragon queen, and not against her. Why? What do you hope to gain from Queen Daenerys?”



“The city thirsts for war.”


“Why?” wondered Tyrion. “Meereen is long leagues across the sea. How has this sweet child queen offended Old Volantis?”


“Sweet?” Qavo laughed. “If even half the stories coming back from Slaver’s Bay are true, this child is a monster. They say that she is bloodthirsty, that those who speak against her are impaled on spikes to die lingering deaths. They say she is a sorceress who feeds her dragons on the flesh of newborn babes, an oathbreaker who mocks the gods, breaks truces, threatens envoys, and turns on those who have served her loyally. They say her lust cannot be sated, that she mates with men, women, eunuchs, even dogs and children, and woe betide the lover who fails to satisfy her. She gives her body to men to take their souls in thrall.”


“They say,” said Haldon. “By they, you mean the slavers, the exiles she drove from Astapor and Meereen. Mere calumnies.”


“The best calumnies are spiced with truth,” suggested Qavo, “but the girl’s true sin cannot be denied. This arrogant child has taken it upon herself to smash the slave trade, but that traffic was never confined to Slaver’s Bay. It was part of the sea of trade that spanned the world, and the dragon queen has clouded the water. Behind the Black Wall, lords of ancient blood sleep poorly, listening as their kitchen slaves sharpen their long knives. Slaves grow our food, clean our streets, teach our young. They guard our walls, row our galleys, fight our battles. And now when they look east, they see this young queen shining from afar, this breaker of chains. The Old Blood cannot suffer that. Poor men hate her too. Even the vilest beggar stands higher than a slave. This dragon queen would rob him of that consolation.”



The Dothraki are one of the creators of slaves, Slaver’s Bay is the place where these raw slaves are shaped into finished goods. Volantis is the biggest slave market where the finished goods are sold. And Tyrion notes that Illyrio has a good hand in this trade. He has mines in which slaves should be working. He has close relationships with the Dothraki by which he should have direct access to raw slaves with special discounts. Illyrio can trace back his unbroken lineage to Old Valyria just like the Old Blood in Volantis. Illyrio and Volantis are natural allies, pieces of the great slave trade. Illyrio attacking Volantis does not make sense in this perspective.



I find it more plausible that the Volantene Fleet is planning to set things right in the slave trade, kill Dany and her dragons.



Illyrio naturally assumed that Dany was sacking cities for gold to raise an army to claim her father’s throne. That is what he would do. That is why he planned to meet Dany at Volantis, where she eventually had to come on her way to Westeros. In this case, the Volantene would not have much reason to hate her because the slave flow would be eventually running at its usual course.



However, Dany decided to stay and rule and finish the slave trade. The Old Blood cannot suffer that. Illyrio realized that and he has no objection to Dany's death sentence. Dany and her dragons were not in his original plan. He meant to get Dany/Viserys killed before. Why would he try to save her now?



“And how do you propose to get to Westeros? You heard Lysono. There are no ships to be had.”


“No ships for Slaver’s Bay. Westeros is another matter. The east is closed to us, not the sea. The triarchs would be glad to see the back of us, I do not doubt. They might even help us arrange passage back to the Seven Kingdoms. No city wants an army on its doorstep.”


“He’s not wrong,” said Lysono Maar.



The Volantene were reluctant to take the GC to Slaver’s Bay because they were aware of fAegon/Dany marriage plan and even after Dany’s death sentence was signed, there is always the chance that they might join her. So Illyrio exploited this fear of the Volantene and bought the ticket of carrying the GC to Westeros almost freely. The time is ripe and there is no need to wait for Dany.





But King's blood for what purpose? Why not just castrate him if your only concern is he can't put his own heir on the throne?





There may be several ideas about the correct nature of the castration of Varys (and there is always the possibility that he may not be really castrated at all or he may even be a woman).



“The one you call waif is a woman grown who has spent her life serving Him of Many Faces. She gave Him all she was, all she ever might have been, all the lives that were within her.”



“I was born the only child of an ancient House, my noble father’s heir,” the waif replied. “My mother died when I was little, I have no memory of her. When I was six my father wed again. His new wife treated me kindly until she gave birth to a daughter of her own. Then it was her wish that I should die, so her own blood might inherit my father’s wealth. She should have sought the favor of the Many-Faced God, but she could not bear the sacrifice he would ask of her. Instead, she thought to poison me herself. It left me as you see me now, but I did not die. When the healers in the House of the Red Hands told my father what she had done, he came here and made sacrifice, offering up all his wealth and me. Him of Many Faces heard his prayer. I was brought to the temple to serve, and my father’s wife received the gift.”



“All sorcery comes at a cost, child. Years of prayer and sacrifice and study are required to work a proper glamor.”


“Years?” she said, dismayed.


“If it were easy all men would do it. You must walk before you run. Why use a spell, where mummer’s tricks will serve?”



“Whenever she [Lady Spider] gives birth, a demon comes by night to carry off the issue. Sam Stoops’ wife says she sold her babes unborn to the Lord of the Seven Hells, so he’d teach her his black arts.”



this



Littlefinger smiled. “Leave Lord Varys to me, sweet lady. If you will permit me a small obscenity—and where better for it—I hold the man’s balls in the palm of my hand.” He cupped his fingers, smiling. “Or would, if he were a man, or had any balls.”



“I am sorry.” Varys wrung his hands. “You are suffering, I know, yet here I stand going on like some silly old woman.



Feel free to speculate.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...