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Baelparagon

Daenerys Targaryen A born Leader, but a Terrible Ruler

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Before I begin this I want to make one thing clear, this is not intended as a trollpost. I do not intend to offend anyone and I hope to make my points in a clear and organized fashion, without any misogyny or fan worship. I'm just a guy making his first post on a topic I find very interesting, one that I hope you'll be interested in as well. Also this is my first post on this website so if you feel like I could improve my writing in any way feel free to let me know. And with that said lets get started.



Recently having gotten back into the book series I have been reading a number of posts and arguments on Daenerys Targaryens credibility as a ruler. The topic tends to be argued either in one of three ways, the first is in the extreme negative, where posters will comment on Daenerys's naivety as well as her mistakes and often one sided view of justice. This side also tends to comment on her lack of emotional control and listening to her heart as opposed to her mind. The second viewpoint is taken from the extreme positive side in which posters believe that Daenerys's achievements, such as the freeing of the slaves from Astapor, are signs that her greatness has yet to come and will be a beloved monarch. And the third viewpoint is also on the positive side, but from an apologetic standpoint. Posters in this demographic will state that yes Dany has made some mistakes, but that she has learned from these mistakes and will be a stronger ruler for them. Or perhaps less respectfully they will state her age as the cause and use that to excuse her actions.



Now granted each of these arguments have some validity, with examples being easy to pull up support for any argument. Dany is a complicated character, as is the majority of GRRM's characters in this book. This girl started off as a young girl sold off by her brother to a horse lord, and through trial and error rose to become the queen of a city. Such ability does not come without some hardship and emotional strain and has created a character that in the eyes of the viewer you either love or despise. Dany is a testament to GRRM's ability as a writer and in many ways is a reflection of the things we love or hate about a protagonist.



However I do feel that the argument about her being a ruler needs to be more centralized in order to look at her with an unbiased eye. I don't believe she is incompetent as many of my fellow readers do. While she has certainly had help on her journey she has made a number of decisions that have increased her power and made her a force to be reckoned with. Such a situation could not be brought about if she did not posses some measure ability. However I will admit she has made mistakes that if made by other characters made them in the book would cause their downfall. Her actions in the aftermath of Mereneese and trusting Daario are bad mistakes, which may still come to haunt her later on. In essence I will say this, I believe Daenerys is a great leader, but as of now she is a terrible ruler.



Now before you comment on me making a catch 22, just hear me out. I believe that a leader and a ruler while similar in certain functions are two different things entirely. I'll do my best to explain. A leader is a person who, through charisma or ability is able to pull a group of people together in support of them. These individuals can inspire those under them to preform great feats under their direction and can achieve through cooperation what could not be achieved in separation. This definition of a leader is more closely akin to what we have today in the forms of presidents and politicians and is one of the reasons people like Dany. Many of the views she has would be considered modern and added to that with her strong feminine character and backstory, it isn't hard too see why those who follow her love her.



However just become someone is a good leader doesn't neccesarily make someone a good ruler. Now a ruler can have many different styles of ruling in the world, especially in medieval times such as those shown in the ASOFAI. And what may work in one kingdom is not guaranteed to work in another. Balon Greyjoy for example rules in a very serious and strong manner, or as one would say the Ironborn way. While this style of leadership is respected in the Iron Islands, it would never be applicaple in any of the other kingdoms. Regardless however of what style a ruler uses, a ruler at their core is an administrator. A ruler has subjects to whom they are owed alliegance to, but in turn must serve and keep them happy. Many a lord both in fiction as well as in the real world has lost their head due to poor management skills, while intelligent rulers like Tywin are able to form powerful houses, with entire regions owing them loyalty.



And there in lies the crux and the difficulty that Daenerys faces as a leader who has become a ruler. Just like with Robert, it was much easier to conquer a kingdom then it is to rule one. Through the first four books we watched as Dany amassed an army of followers, sacked cities and overthrew slavers. It was exciting both for herself as well as for the reader. But now she has gotten her seat, has gotten her power and the truth is she doesn't know what to do. And s the reader we don't like the chapters because of how boring we find actually ruling; as Dany does as well. Fighting battles and winning glory hold much more appeal than strengthening the economy and dealing with the ails of a city.



Her advisors at best are able to offer decent suggestions from time to time but continuously these decisions keep ending in failure. Some would argue that this is the fault of the Sons of Harpy's or a blunder of her age which can be forgive; but I don't agree. Dany set out to be a ruler of a city, to overthrow a system that had ruled there for centuries or even millennia, and to excuse her for the consequences of that overthrow is foolish. As for the excuses for her age, we live in a modern world with modern views. in ASOIAF teenagers are expected to rule, to marry even to lead men on the battlefield if need be. When you are the ruler of a city, specifically one you yourself overthrew and took over; saying that "I am just a young girl" whenever you make a mistake is not acceptable. Below I list the four traits that rulers in this show have been shown to use, and in them will be examples in which Daenerys does not succeed.



1. Administration: A ruler is first and foremost an administrator. A kings duty is to ensure that the noble lords are ruling the land, paying their taxes and remaining loyal. An administrator aso must find ways to deal with the problems plaguing their respective realms before they become detrimental. Daenerys has not been able to do this in Mereneese, she freed the slaves of the city state but now they're left in a perpetual state of limbo. She has not found a way to replace the economy that was lost due to the abolishment and now many in the city are growing resentful from the poor conditions and the lack of response to the Harpys. For someone who is struggling to control one city, I find it difficult to believe that she will be able to rule seven kingdoms and the infinite number of headaches and situations that arrive from that. That and the fact she has made little to know attempt to learn about the kingdoms she means to rule, as well as the reasons her father was overthrown, shows a bit of arrogance on her end.



2. Firmness: Whether a ruler controls his region through honor, respect or fear those decisions they make must be firm as well as consistent. Stannis is not a man who could inspire men to him nor charm his way to power, but those who do follow him respect him because of his unflinching ways. He hands out punishment and reward in the measure warranted by the action of those under him. And when he commits to something he does not shirk from it, regardless of how tasteless it might be. Daenerys's sense of justice has not been so strict, but more to her own personal whims. When angered she tortured the winesellers family, but then when challenged by the harpies she refused to kill her hostages. While this may have been the ethically right thing to do it has made her look weak in the eyes of her enemies and in some of her commanders. A ruler who is not firm will rule an uneasy kingdom.



3. Alliance making: Perhaps one of the weakest areas Daenerys suffers from is in her ability to make and keep alliances. Not with her own soldiers or close retainers, but with many of the power players in Mereen as well as the other cities. While it is true some of her enemies are responsible for this she has also failed on her own. Instead of instilling her authority in Astapor she left it in a freefall that lead the city to eventually being sacked. The Yunkai offered her ships to get her army to Westeros and she instead sacks it. Many cities are wary of Daenerys because of the Yunkai, but you cant blame all of it on them. When you've made it a policy to destroy instead of deal it tends to make people nervous. Even when Prince Martell comes to Mereen, offering nt just his hand but the entire kingdom of dorne and she refuses it in order to marry Hizhdar. Drone might have been the only kingdom that would have turned to Dany willingly, and with their prince dead this may no longer be the case.



4. Priorities: Daenerys wishes to keep Mereen free and to take over Westeros but this is unlikely. As is her intention to bring over her army of tens of thousands over the sea, the number of ships that would be required for this would be staggering in and of itself. Then there is the act of trying to acclimate her people to Westeros, and area that has been shown to have a much colder climate and if like anything in the real world, will have diseases that her people will not have been exposed to. And all of this while wanting to eliminate the Starks, Baratheons and Lannisters from existence.



A little jumbled I know but my point is this, Daenerys knows what she wants to do but has no idea in how to accomplish said goals. She does not seem to have even an inkling of what step to take, the implications that will come from seeking the destruction of the great houses nor the futility in trying to hold two kingdoms on different continents separated by hundreds of miles of ocean. This combined with her now incapability to control her dragons she is swiftly on her way to disaster, unless someone can help her fix this, and quickly.



I could see her taking throne in a similar way to the marriage problem that arises in the Dragon Age Series. There will be a spoiler in this paragraph for those who haven't played the game. During an event called the landsmeet the two opposing sides, yours and that of Teryn Loghain, are in debate over who to name as Ruler of Ferelden and to lead the armies against the darkspawn. As the player you must decide between either your companion Alistair, a bastard of the former king with a love for justice and ideals, or you must choose the current queen Anora, a cold but practical ruler disdained by the nobles but well liked by the common man. One a leader, the other a ruler. The third but more difficult option is to convince the two to marriage, thus giving Ferelden both a beloved figurehead and a capable ruler.



In essence I don't believe Daenerys will ever be a good ruler, she has drive and charisma but lacks cold logic and the skills to govern a realm. She might be able to win the throne, but I doubt she would keep it for long. But if she was to ally with someone, say a certain disgraced half-man or a northern bastard who've both proven some capacity for the reigns of governing, then she might have a chance. Well just have to wait and see. Thank you all for reading and let me know what you think, have a good one.


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When you are the ruler of a city, specifically one you yourself overthrew and took over; saying that "I am just a young girl" whenever you make a mistake is not acceptable.

She says it to make her adversary underestimate her, not to excuse her actions.

1. Administration: A ruler is first and foremost an administrator. A kings duty is to ensure that the noble lords are ruling the land, paying their taxes and remaining loyal. An administrator aso must find ways to deal with the problems plaguing their respective realms before they become detrimental. Daenerys has not been able to do this in Mereneese, she freed the slaves of the city state but now they're left in a perpetual state of limbo. She has not found a way to replace the economy that was lost due to the abolishment and now many in the city are growing resentful from the poor conditions and the lack of response to the Harpys. For someone who is struggling to control one city, I find it difficult to believe that she will be able to rule seven kingdoms and the infinite number of headaches and situations that arrive from that.

In Westeros she won't have to change the economy. It was a great feat she was trying to accomplish in Meereen.

That and the fact she has made little to know attempt to learn about the kingdoms she means to rule, as well as the reasons her father was overthrown, shows a bit of arrogance on her end.

Why would you be keen on hearing details on how your family was massacred? She had more pressing concerns at the time anyway. When your subjects are starving or killed in the streets you don't ask for stories. One war at a time.

2. Firmness: Whether a ruler controls his region through honor, respect or fear those decisions they make must be firm as well as consistent. Stannis is not a man who could inspire men to him nor charm his way to power, but those who do follow him respect him because of his unflinching ways. He hands out punishment and reward in the measure warranted by the action of those under him. And when he commits to something he does not shirk from it, regardless of how tasteless it might be. Daenerys's sense of justice has not been so strict, but more to her own personal whims. When angered she tortured the winesellers family, but then when challenged by the harpies she refused to kill her hostages. While this may have been the ethically right thing to do it has made her look weak in the eyes of her enemies and in some of her commanders. A ruler who is not firm will rule an uneasy kingdom.

Laws have to be flexible because one case differs from another. You can't apply the same punishment everytime. Say, I steal an apple. Doing it from a rich family is bad, but it's not as bad as doing it from a poor one. It looks as if it is the same crime, but is it? The laws of men are far from perfection and should not be seen as absolute because they may not apply in all sitations.

Her supporters don't see her as weak, Barristan certainly does not. She has loyal people (Missandei, Grey Worm). The Shavepate considered her weak, but is he loyal to her? Doubtful. It's plain to see that his agenda doesn't match Dany's as he's certainly not interested in achieving peace. Otherwise why ask to kill children? She can't please anyone.

3. Alliance making: Perhaps one of the weakest areas Daenerys suffers from is in her ability to make and keep alliances. Not with her own soldiers or close retainers, but with many of the power players in Mereen as well as the other cities. While it is true some of her enemies are responsible for this she has also failed on her own. Instead of instilling her authority in Astapor she left it in a freefall that lead the city to eventually being sacked. The Yunkai offered her ships to get her army to Westeros and she instead sacks it. Many cities are wary of Daenerys because of the Yunkai, but you cant blame all of it on them. When you've made it a policy to destroy instead of deal it tends to make people nervous. Even when Prince Martell comes to Mereen, offering nt just his hand but the entire kingdom of dorne and she refuses it in order to marry Hizhdar. Drone might have been the only kingdom that would have turned to Dany willingly, and with their prince dead this may no longer be the case.

It wasn't Dany's fault that Quentyn came with a parchment no one knew about. It did not say anything about Dany, and refusing to marry Hizdahr would have been far worse. You said it yourself: "When you've made it a policy to destroy instead of deal it tends to make people nervous."

Daenerys wishes to keep Mereen free and to take over Westeros but this is unlikely.

Ruling from distance is possible with dragons. Meereen is not much farther from King's Landing than the Wall is.

4. Priorities: Daenerys wishes to keep Mereen free and to take over Westeros but this is unlikely. As is her intention to bring over her army of tens of thousands over the sea, the number of ships that would be required for this would be staggering in and of itself.

The Golden Company crossed as well.

And all of this while wanting to eliminate the Starks, Baratheons and Lannisters from existence.

Where does it say that?!

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I actually agree with a lot of what you said, however. You fault her for turning down Quentyn because he would have helped her win Westeros, yet your post is about properly ruling a city. She turned down Quentyn for Mereen, to help Mereen (so she thought) by marrying one of its citizens(who she did not love and was only marrying out of duty to Mereen). So She would have made things even worse in mereen if she had accepted Quentyn. You can't fault her for doing the right thing for the city she is currently ruling because it wasn't right for Westeros.


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I also agree with a lot of what you've said. I've always thought that Dany has been much better at getting people to follow her than knowing where to lead them. She doesn't generally show a lot of foresight.

She's a foil to Jon Snow in that regard, I think. Jon was absolutely right in all the choices he made for the NW to prepare them for war against the Others, but obviously he had a very difficult time convincing his brothers to go along with them.

Both got into trouble, though, by trying to change too much in too short a time. Dany was trying to dismantle an entire economy and social structure based on slavery, and Jon was fighting against decades/centuries of prejudice and decay. Those are huge undertakings that neither had the time to fully devote to.

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She says it to make her adversary underestimate her, not to excuse her actions.

In Westeros she won't have to change the economy. It was a great feat she was trying to accomplish in Meereen.

Why would you be keen on hearing details on how your family was massacred? She had more pressing concerns at the time anyway. When your subjects are starving or killed in the streets you don't ask for stories. One war at a time.

Laws have to be flexible because one case differs from another. You can't apply the same punishment everytime. Say, I steal an apple. Doing it from a rich family is bad, but it's not as bad as doing it from a poor one. It looks as if it is the same crime, but is it? The laws of men are far from perfection and should not be seen as absolute because they may not apply in all sitations.

Her supporters don't see her as weak, Barristan certainly does not. She has loyal people (Missandei, Grey Worm). The Shavepate considered her weak, but is he loyal to her? Doubtful. It's plain to see that his agenda doesn't match Dany's as he's certainly not interested in achieving peace. Otherwise why ask to kill children? She can't please anyone.

It wasn't Dany's fault that Quentyn came with a parchment no one knew about. It did not say anything about Dany, and refusing to marry Hizdahr would have been far worse. You said it yourself: "When you've made it a policy to destroy instead of deal it tends to make people nervous."

Ruling from distance is possible with dragons. Meereen is not much farther from King's Landing than the Wall is.

The Golden Company crossed as well.

Where does it say that?!

  1. At first yes but then she starts to say it about everthing.
  2. In westeros men will not worship her like a god and her enemies would ten times more fierce then the ghiscari.
  3. She asks Barry stories all the time she just doesn't want to hear the crappy stuff.
  4. Um yes you do the law most be blind. They worship her as a goddess of course they don't see her faults. Barry is the biggest Targ fanboy in this book he says how great Rhaegar is but can't think of a damn thing useful he ever did. Shavepate is what actual people like lords of Westeros would think when it comes to Dany's actions. Those children were hostages if you are not going to kill them don't take them or at less don't tell people.
  5. The fact she promised to marry a slaver at all showed how idiotic her ideals are. She kills thousands for the sake of freedom yet when the slavers fight back she rolls on her back and say mercy. She let herself be pushed into a corner instead of doing what her advicers told her and gut the yunkai, who were obviously using the peace as a cover to a mass an army, before their forces grew to great.
  6. No it is not sea travel is a crap load harder then land travel get their before your army does you are one dragon facing an army. Then heir is supply reinforcements and political leaders turning rogue the second you get on a boat.
  7. With a 10000, Dany has closer to a million followers.
  8. She hates all of them and in considers their kids usurpers. She will start a murderous war.

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Dany at her age without good counselling has shown great potential for the future, she did better than most of the current or past ruler of Westeros ( Robert, Ned, Cersei, Robb, etc...) People easily forget that she's still very young, but she's managed to stay alive, freed a whole region and keep them safe for now.


The only thing she lacks is good counselling and a good hand of the king, she take all the decisions by herself without a proper counselling from people who got experience on the matter, she's got no master of coin, no master of justice or no master of whisperers. Other than that, I do not see where are her defects. She is brave, fearless, charismatic and inspire people to follow her, and she show good comprehension when it comes to warfare (more than any other woman in the book), the only thing she need is good counsels. I don't understand how people can judge her so harshly, she's still in the process of learning. Robert was a grown man, and look how he messed up his reign and put all his family in danger, and need i say more on Rhaegar and Aerys. So i don't know how people can say she's a terrible ruler. She's not ruling right now, she's in surviving mode.

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OP - great topic!



I must admit in Dany's big revelation chapter at the end of the last book where she thinks 'Dragons plant no trees' the words that formed in the back of my mind were 'Aye dragons don't, but one who would rule, must'.



That's the thing about Dany she has a really good claim to the Iron Throne and the force and ability to push that claim upon Westeros, however it is highly questionable whether she has the skills and background to be a successful ruler once her conquest is complete. The crux is when you look at the average Westerosi young nobleman and those young noblewomen who are educated to a similar level as their brothers. These kids as we shown very early on in the series, are educated from about seven upwards in skills directly applicable in actual ruling lands and taught by people who have decades of experience in those fields such as their fathers and maesters. Daenerys in contrast has grown up on the run in the Free Cities with her best source of education her mad brother, this means compared to her contemporaries in Westerosi's ruling class (let's say Margaery Tyrell as another bright 16 year old girl who has been taught some skills of ruling) Dany is at least five years (if not ten) education behind the average Westerosi noble of the same age. That is before you compare her level of education in ruling to someone like say Stannis who has a proven record of about 20 years as a successful ruler of various lands and held offices in Westerosi politics.



At this stage with Dany for me a happy ending for her is finding a position where she can be a leader which is better suited to her skillset than being a ruler. Maybe a pseudo-religious position might be it?


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Why would you be keen on hearing details on how your family was massacred? She had more pressing concerns at the time anyway.

Because knowing why her family was overthrown might help her, and if she ever has any children, from making the same mistake? I understand there were times she had to focus more on the things around her, but in all of those months of travel between cities and on the ocean she didn’t have time to learn about the place she means to rule? There are times Selmy or Mormont even offer to tell her about her past as well as the Starks and Baratheons and she turns a deaf ear.

Otherwise why ask to kill children? She can't please anyone.

Its not about pleasing people, it was about proving her strength as a monarch to those who would oppose her. In medieval times as well as in ASOIAF it was quite common to take hostages or wards in order to ensure enemy complacency. While sparing the children may have earned her admiration in her followers eyes it made her look weak to her enemies. This is a slip up that Dany made herself. She took the children hostage, drew the line in the sand and made her message clear. “Cross me and the children die.” A monarch cannot have the luxury of making threats they do not intend to follow through with. Her inaction likely strengthened the resolve of her enemies to see her fall.

Ruling from distance is possible with dragons. Meereen is not much farther from King's Landing than the Wall is.


According to the map of Westeros the continent is 3000 miles long, and the distance from the wall to Kings landing in a straight line is around 2100 miles long. I don’t know what the limits are for dragons in terms of flying distance, but I doubt even they could fly that far without specific islands to stop at or a ship to rest on. That in turn means potentially leaving a number of her military forces back in Mereen, which could spell disaster on either continent.


The Golden Company crossed as well.


The golden company is a sellsword company that has existed for over a 120 years according to the lore and numbers around 10,000 men. They have had decades to accrue ships, wealth, armor and supplies to go to war. Daenerys does not have that kind of time to wait or to build a fleet.

Daenerys alone has 20,000 Unsullied soldiers, only three ships and assuming she doesn’t leave them in Mereen around 60,000-80,000 freed slaves to transport. Now going by the lore the largest ship type the war galleys can transport around 100 oarmen and perhaps 50-100 of her own men as well as supplies, a few horses and maybe a few pieces of siege equipment. In order to fully move her forces across the sea she would need anywhere from 400 -500 warships, assuming her freed slaves can serve as the oarmen. If she has to get oarmen from outside her realm she will need almost a 1000 warships. Next she has to find and pay an able captain and crew for each vessel to work the masts and navigation, along with supplies to last 200 men for whats probably a couple month voyage on each ship. Then you need to supply most of these men with armor; weapons and I assume some form of training. And before you can do any of this you need to acquire these neccesities through trade or conquest.

Daenerys has wealth but not enough to buy what she needs, and any city she tries to conquer will fight to the death and their ships will flee the harbor. Not to mention her cities about to come under sige from the Yunkai and may come under attack from the iron fleet. Even if it was just her Unsullied going to Westeros, she would need a least a hundred ships, of which she only has 3 merchant vessels. Now the Iron fleet or Dorne could potentially move her, but they would not do so without some form of deal, probably in matrimony.

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Because knowing why her family was overthrown might help her, and if she ever has any children, from making the same mistake? I understand there were times she had to focus more on the things around her, but in all of those months of travel between cities and on the ocean she didn’t have time to learn about the place she means to rule? There are times Selmy or Mormont even offer to tell her about her past as well as the Starks and Baratheons and she turns a deaf ear.

Its not about pleasing people, it was about proving her strength as a monarch to those who would oppose her. In medieval times as well as in ASOIAF it was quite common to take hostages or wards in order to ensure enemy complacency. While sparing the children may have earned her admiration in her followers eyes it made her look weak to her enemies. This is a slip up that Dany made herself. She took the children hostage, drew the line in the sand and made her message clear. “Cross me and the children die.” A monarch cannot have the luxury of making threats they do not intend to follow through with. Her inaction likely strengthened the resolve of her enemies to see her fall.

According to the map of Westeros the continent is 3000 miles long, and the distance from the wall to Kings landing in a straight line is around 2100 miles long. I don’t know what the limits are for dragons in terms of flying distance, but I doubt even they could fly that far without specific islands to stop at or a ship to rest on. That in turn means potentially leaving a number of her military forces back in Mereen, which could spell disaster on either continent.

The golden company is a sellsword company that has existed for over a 120 years according to the lore and numbers around 10,000 men. They have had decades to accrue ships, wealth, armor and supplies to go to war. Daenerys does not have that kind of time to wait or to build a fleet.

Daenerys alone has 20,000 Unsullied soldiers, only three ships and assuming she doesn’t leave them in Mereen around 60,000-80,000 freed slaves to transport. Now going by the lore the largest ship type the war galleys can transport around 100 oarmen and perhaps 50-100 of her own men as well as supplies, a few horses and maybe a few pieces of siege equipment. In order to fully move her forces across the sea she would need anywhere from 400 -500 warships, assuming her freed slaves can serve as the oarmen. If she has to get oarmen from outside her realm she will need almost a 1000 warships. Next she has to find and pay an able captain and crew for each vessel to work the masts and navigation, along with supplies to last 200 men for whats probably a couple month voyage on each ship. Then you need to supply most of these men with armor; weapons and I assume some form of training. And before you can do any of this you need to acquire these neccesities through trade or conquest.

Daenerys has wealth but not enough to buy what she needs, and any city she tries to conquer will fight to the death and their ships will flee the harbor. Not to mention her cities about to come under sige from the Yunkai and may come under attack from the iron fleet. Even if it was just her Unsullied going to Westeros, she would need a least a hundred ships, of which she only has 3 merchant vessels. Now the Iron fleet or Dorne could potentially move her, but they would not do so without some form of deal, probably in matrimony.

THIS!!!

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Because knowing why her family was overthrown might help her, and if she ever has any children, from making the same mistake? I understand there were times she had to focus more on the things around her, but in all of those months of travel between cities and on the ocean she didn’t have time to learn about the place she means to rule? There are times Selmy or Mormont even offer to tell her about her past as well as the Starks and Baratheons and she turns a deaf ear.

Its not about pleasing people, it was about proving her strength as a monarch to those who would oppose her. In medieval times as well as in ASOIAF it was quite common to take hostages or wards in order to ensure enemy complacency. While sparing the children may have earned her admiration in her followers eyes it made her look weak to her enemies. This is a slip up that Dany made herself. She took the children hostage, drew the line in the sand and made her message clear. “Cross me and the children die.” A monarch cannot have the luxury of making threats they do not intend to follow through with. Her inaction likely strengthened the resolve of her enemies to see her fall.

According to the map of Westeros the continent is 3000 miles long, and the distance from the wall to Kings landing in a straight line is around 2100 miles long. I don’t know what the limits are for dragons in terms of flying distance, but I doubt even they could fly that far without specific islands to stop at or a ship to rest on. That in turn means potentially leaving a number of her military forces back in Mereen, which could spell disaster on either continent.

The golden company is a sellsword company that has existed for over a 120 years according to the lore and numbers around 10,000 men. They have had decades to accrue ships, wealth, armor and supplies to go to war. Daenerys does not have that kind of time to wait or to build a fleet.

Daenerys alone has 20,000 Unsullied soldiers, only three ships and assuming she doesn’t leave them in Mereen around 60,000-80,000 freed slaves to transport. Now going by the lore the largest ship type the war galleys can transport around 100 oarmen and perhaps 50-100 of her own men as well as supplies, a few horses and maybe a few pieces of siege equipment. In order to fully move her forces across the sea she would need anywhere from 400 -500 warships, assuming her freed slaves can serve as the oarmen. If she has to get oarmen from outside her realm she will need almost a 1000 warships. Next she has to find and pay an able captain and crew for each vessel to work the masts and navigation, along with supplies to last 200 men for whats probably a couple month voyage on each ship. Then you need to supply most of these men with armor; weapons and I assume some form of training. And before you can do any of this you need to acquire these neccesities through trade or conquest.

Daenerys has wealth but not enough to buy what she needs, and any city she tries to conquer will fight to the death and their ships will flee the harbor. Not to mention her cities about to come under sige from the Yunkai and may come under attack from the iron fleet. Even if it was just her Unsullied going to Westeros, she would need a least a hundred ships, of which she only has 3 merchant vessels. Now the Iron fleet or Dorne could potentially move her, but they would not do so without some form of deal, probably in matrimony.

I agree. By embracing the mindset "dragons plants no trees" she is essentially defeating herself.

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Because knowing why her family was overthrown might help her, and if she ever has any children, from making the same mistake? I understand there were times she had to focus more on the things around her, but in all of those months of travel between cities and on the ocean she didn’t have time to learn about the place she means to rule? There are times Selmy or Mormont even offer to tell her about her past as well as the Starks and Baratheons and she turns a deaf ear.

Aerys burned lords, hands, children, etc because it got him off. He was insane. I don't see Dany making those type of "mistakes" regardless if she ever finds out the specifics (she already knows her father was mad).

and no she doesn't turn a deaf ear. She asks them to tell her about her father the good and the bad but everytime this happens they get interruprted.

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Aerys burned lords, hands, children, etc because it got him off. He was insane. I don't see Dany making those type of "mistakes" regardless if she ever finds out the specifics (she already knows her father was mad).

and no she doesn't turn a deaf ear. She asks them to tell her about her father the good and the bad but everytime this happens they get interruprted.

She tortured to innocent girls she is Aerys.

She told Barry she is not ready then only wants to hear Fairy Tales.

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She tortured to innocent girls she is Aerys.

She told Barry she is not ready then only wants to hear Fairy Tales.

lol. If that that is the case half of the lords of Westeros are Aerys.

And you are wrong about your second point too.

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She tortured to innocent girls she is Aerys.

She told Barry she is not ready then only wants to hear Fairy Tales.

She's not Aerys come again (yet, maybe). That she makes moral reprehensible choice doesn't make her completely-off-her-rocker-insane,

I don't remember exactly how her conversation with Barry went down, so I'll have to reread that part.

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She's not Aerys come again (yet, maybe). That she makes moral reprehensible choice doesn't make her completely-off-her-rocker-insane,

I don't remember exactly how her conversation with Barry went down, so I'll have to reread that part.

She has had several conversations with Barry. I do believe once she did want to hear fairy tale, the others she asked to hear the good and the bad.

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lol. If that that is the case half of the lords of Westeros are Aerys.

And you are wrong about your second point too.

What lords torture innocent girls who name not be Bolton.

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The Lannisters, Boltons, Baratheons, Arryns, Manderleys, and the Nights Watch just to name a few use some form of torture.



It's a medieval world, why is this shocking to some people?


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The Lannisters, Boltons, Baratheons, Arryns, Manderleys, and the Nights Watch just to name a few use some form of torture.

It's a medieval world, why is this shocking to some people?

Innocent girls not harden criminals she is a monster for this.

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Yes, everyone that has been tortured in Westeros by the other lords have all been hardended criminals, while Dany only tortures the innocent ones.



Yeah I am done with this thread.



:rolleyes:

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