protar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I would not say Dany is bi, she had absolutely no sexual attraction to any female. The thing between her and Irri was a loneliness act. Her ability to get enjoyment out of it suggests she's somewhere on the bisexual part of the kinsey scale. And after the first incident she asks Irri a few times to do it again and her only complaint is that "her kisses tasted of duty", not that she was a girl. I think Martin generally has the gays, lesbians and bisexuals pretty well represented compared to other fantasy, even though the books could probably do with at least one male/male sex scene. He's missing explicitly asexual and transgender characters, both of which are hard to do in the setting - the former because people will just assume they're a straight character who happens not to be seen having sex and the latter because Westerosi society has no concept of transgender. Not that it necessarily needs to be explicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 And technically, not one which Daenerys initiated. Though it does suggest bisexuality is something of an acceptable practice for women amongst the Dothraki, that Irri was so quick to give Daenerys a "hand". It was good enough to wake the Dragon, can't fault her for that. :D Where would Ramsay rate in this group..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blutraven Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There's a difference between thinking a guy's attractive and being gay. I don't think Stannis is strictly asexual either, he's just not interested in sex. The Blackfish is probably asexual though. Dany's at most, bi-curious. We've never seen her be attracted to any female character, there's just the Irri scene. With Cersei, it's mainly due to her frustration in living in such a misogynistic society, and due to her believing that she and Jaime are the same people. I don't get where the Brienne's transgender arguments come from, admittedly, I know fuck all about the subject, but she's always identified herself as a woman. Today we have female body builders, boxers and martial artists and these are, outdatedly, seen as traditionally male activities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I can only laugh at the Jon-Satin suggestions. Totally ridiculous. I wouldn't say totally ridiculous. There's just very little to support it. Jon noticing Satin's beauty only means that Jon has a set of working eyes, not that he feels sexually attracted to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I don't think Stannis is asexual. He's just a repressed hetero man who is not attracted by his wife. The fact that Melisandre had no problem seducing Stannis suggests he's generally interested in hetero sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubarey Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 "He's missing explicitly asexual and transgender characters, both of which are hard to do in the setting - the former because people will just assume they're a straight character who happens not to be seen having sex and the latter because Westerosi society has no concept of transgender. Not that it necessarily needs to be explicit. " Then again if you do not believe LF there is Varys. Asexual as hell as he has had his male genitalia painfully removed. And he dresses in very Feminine fashions (could be a foreign dress style but not from any country we know he has ever spent time in). So possibly Asexual and a likely cross-dresser. "even though the books could probably do with at least one male/male sex scene." Please no, the TV show is full of visable hetro and gay sex no need to fill the books with them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 even though the books could probably do with at least one male/male sex scene. Be careful what you wish for. Walder Frey/Sam Tarly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Be careful what you wish for. Walder Frey/Sam Tarly... Thanks, I may not eat for a week after reading that. :ack: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sapphire_lion Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Sexuality and gender plays an enormous role in asoiaf and being a queer individual I frequently feel kind of left out when it comes to those themes in the fantasy genre because it tends to be so cis/het leaning. Obviously there is some cis white male stuff going on (eg loras/renly) and personally I always read Brienne as being a trans man as opposed to being just a manly lady, but does anyone else read other LGBT characters in the series? Brienne self-identifies as female. Just because a woman is masculine in appearance or participates in activities that are traditionally considered masculine does not mean that she is transsexual or that she wants to be a man. Brienne’s “problem” is that she does not fit into Westeros’ narrow definition of what a woman should be or look like. However, Brienne is very feminine on the inside. As the narrative repeats more than once, she has a woman’s heart. In her POVs, we see Brienne express some regret at missing out on motherhood. We know that she liked Renly because he “had shown her every courtesy, as if she were a proper maid, and pretty.” She liked dancing with him because he made her feel graceful. When she was a little girl, she cried when she discovered that the men who told her what a pretty girl she was were lying and that the truth was in her looking glass. She even wonders if Jaime would comfort her if she cried on his shoulder. She thinks to herself, “That was what men wanted, wasn't it? Soft helpless women that they needed to protect?” But Brienne can never be that, so she is left a pariah, a freak. Brienne has been ostracized all her life because of her lack of feminine beauty. This has informed how she views herself and her gender. She believes she is unfit to be female and has been told as much.“Some men are blessed with sons, some with daughters. No man deserves to be cursed with such as you.” –AFFC “One looked a bit like a camp follower who had once come up to Brienne to ask if she had a cvnt or a c0ck inside her breeches.” –AFFC However, this is altogether different from having a desire to be male, which is something she has never expressed. Nor does Brienne take pleasure in her masculine appearance.Had Brienne been a man, she would have been called big; for a woman, she was huge. Freakish was the word she had heard all her life. She was broad in the shoulder and broader in the hips. Her legs were long, her arms thick. Her chest was more muscle than bosom. Her hands were big, her feet enormous. And she was ugly besides, with a freckled, horsey face and teeth that seemed almost too big for her mouth. She did not need to be reminded of any of that. –AFFC IMO Brienne's story is of a woman who outwardly looks manly and how this has affected her life. I don't even think of her as a masculine character because she is very much internally female, and this is reiterated within the text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I wouldn't say totally ridiculous. There's just very little to support it. Jon noticing Satin's beauty only means that Jon has a set of working eyes, not that he feels sexually attracted to him. There is still that scene where Jon offers to have Satin escort Selsye, that is one big note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I can only laugh at the Jon-Satin suggestions. Totally ridiculous. This is what I say towards your comment: :bs: , Jatin Mofo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 There is still that scene where Jon offers to have Satin escort Selsye, that is one big note I don't remember that particular scene. And why would that be a sign of Jon feeling sexually attracted to Satin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I don't remember that particular scene. And why would that be a sign of Jon feeling sexually attracted to Satin? I'm trying to find the chapter, basicly one of the Queens Men implies Satin is something other than Jons Steward, and Jon thinks what the knight means, boy, pet, whore. The wiki has the page number wrong, and it's to late at night where i'm from so I can't be bothered to find the chapter. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Multiple posts quoting my own I will try to get them all. First Dany - ya we cannot say for sure I just listed it because as a man I would never ask another guy for a blowjob, whereas if I am not mistaken Dany repeatedly got eaten out, not just 1 trial. Aurane Waters - Kinda slim on evidence here but I liked a theory I read on him so I included it in my list. At one point in feast Cersei wakes along with the council to discuss something, she notes that everyone is half asleep accept both Loras and Aurane. It is the middle of the night, the original feeling/ thought most people probably had was simply that they are the young ones, but actually the book mirrors reality in that old people need less sleep than young people. Then Aurane is the 1 who transports Loras to Dragonstone and the 1 who reports to Cersei that Loras was wounded and that Dragonstone had fallen. It is entirely circumstantial, again just put it in the list. I failed to mention Lyn Corbray - good catch to those that did. Fowler twins, at least bi, not lesbian, they made out with Quentyn. Bear island - she may have kids but no husband, and she does not seem interested in men. Bear island may not be highgarden but I think that being lord of an entire island, relatively isolated from the LP, giving you even more autonomy would be pretty appealing. Also, wealth is relative and bear island is probably not worse off than anywhere else in the North. The east having an obvious advantage in population and trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'm trying to find the chapter, basicly one of the Queens Men implies Satin is something other than Jons Steward, and Jon thinks what the knight means, boy, pet, whore. The wiki has the page number wrong, and it's to late at night where i'm from so I can't be bothered to find the chapter. Sorry That's alright. I remember it now. But that only shows that other people can see their relationship as that, especially because of Satin's professional background. We have access to Jon's thoughts, since he is a POV character. He does not seem to display any kind of romantic or sexual thoughts for Satin. What we have is him sometimes noticing Satin's beauty, and other people gossiping. That's not enough to establish Jon as having any kind of sexual attraction for Satin, let alone a sexual relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's alright. I remember it now. But that only shows that other people can see their relationship as that, especially because of Satin's professional background. We have access to Jon's thoughts, since he is a POV character. He does not seem to display any kind of romantic or sexual thoughts for Satin. What we have is him sometimes noticing Satin's beauty, and other people gossiping. That's not enough to establish Jon as having any kind of sexual attraction for Satin, let alone a sexual relationship. Exactly, Bradd pitts a good looking dude, I've said it before, so is Bradley Coooper. I am a straight guy and don't want to have sex with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's alright. I remember it now. But that only shows that other people can see their relationship as that, especially because of Satin's professional background. We have access to Jon's thoughts, since he is a POV character. He does not seem to display any kind of romantic or sexual thoughts for Satin. What we have is him sometimes noticing Satin's beauty, and other people gossiping. That's not enough to establish Jon as having any kind of sexual attraction for Satin, let alone a sexual relationship. There are things that aren't mentioned in POV, I personally believe in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's alright. I remember it now. But that only shows that other people can see their relationship as that, especially because of Satin's professional background. We have access to Jon's thoughts, since he is a POV character. He does not seem to display any kind of romantic or sexual thoughts for Satin. What we have is him sometimes noticing Satin's beauty, and other people gossiping. That's not enough to establish Jon as having any kind of sexual attraction for Satin, let alone a sexual relationship. Exactly, but "shippers gonna ship". Silly people if you ask me, but it's what they do :P Personally I think Henry Cavill is ridiculously good looking, but I am not attracted to him, those are two very different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Exactly, but "shippers gonna ship". Silly people if you ask me, but it's what they do :P Personally I think Henry Cavill is ridiculously good looking, but I am not attracted to him, those are two very different things. It's one think to think someone is good looking, another to think how pretty they are nearly every chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ache Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Personally I think Henry Cavill is ridiculously good looking, but I am not attracted to him, those are two very different things. Hekkel!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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