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So it's all a big conspiracy theory? Could you provide a source for GRRMs 2014 statement that the publishers don't know the date? Haven't read anything about this before.

I can understand why these rumours about an imminent announcement pop up. Robin Hobb, Roy Dotrice and Liam Cunningham have all made comments which could be interpreted as hinting at George making good progress with TWOW (Robin Hobb in a jokingly manner, however). GRRM wrote about other "surprises" regarding the screening of the first episode of season 4 at his cinema (he gave us the release date for "Rogues" with a new fake history novella and announced he is done with his part of "The World of Ice and Fire", if there will be anything else remains to be seen). Then this "guy at Random House" stuff in this thread and people with "gut feelings" who open threads at reddit, fueling hopes.

Be this as it may: Unless we assume that Ran or Jane Johnson are openly lying to us or don't have a real clue about the progress, I would take their comments far more seriously. Plus, why release a new sample chapter in the same month in which we get an release date announcement? Why does George talk about "the son of Kong" he still has to tackle, if that monkey is almost dead? Or his hope that he'll be done with TWOW before the show catches up with him (if they do three seasons based on AFFC/ADWD of course...).

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It still means they're going well into ADwD territory though ; those new characters are introduced in the middle of the book, so even if they're only in for the last couple of episodes (and add some filler) this season, they'll still be running short of material for Bran in s5. (I actually feel this will be the case for several other storylines anyway).

They're probably rushing to get Bran's chapters out of the way because the actor's getting so much older and bigger. Once he's fused to a weirwood's roots, it won't matter how old he looks because he'll have tree branches growing out of his orifices. They can then pause his storyline until something significant happens in TWOW, by which time we'll be in season six or seven. Heck by then they could use a mannequin.

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So it's all a big conspiracy theory? Could you provide a source for GRRMs 2014 statement that the publishers don't know the date? Haven't read anything about this before.

How does asking questions equate to having a conspiracy theory? :)

http://blog.booktopia.com.au/2013/11/13/the-night-i-met-george-r-r-martin/

Note the part when the blogger says next book is nearly finished - that part made a bit of a fluster on Twitter. Elio said being finished doesn't mean being published and that book in question isn't TWoW but the Dunk and Egg novella.

I followed up with a question to the blogger, - is it really a book or a novella - he corrected himself and added that the novella doesn't have the title but has the publication date, and the opposite is true for TWoW, has a title but no publication date, and that GRRM likes it that way.

Be this as it may: Unless we assume thar Ran or Jane Johnson are openly lying to us or don't have a real clue about the progress, I would take their comments far more seriously.

Of course. /shrug

Plus, why release a new sample chapter in the same month in which we get an release date announcement?

Promotional purposes, ADwD material.. Meh. Well, we don't actually know that we are getting a date, are we? Rumours.

Why does George talk about "the son of Kong" he still has to tackle, if that monkey is almost dead? Or his hope that he'll be done with TWOW before the show catches up with him (if they do three seasons based on AFFC/ADWD of course...).

The experience has taught him better?

Please, there will no 3 seasons for the last 2 books. No. What an eyesore of a statement! (from GRRM, not you)

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"Short Timespan" ??? Over 3 years is not a short timespan. and you consider it to be unlikely ...that means you also consider it to be possible. Only time will tell.....And if Bantam does announce the release date this month then will be proven correct.

3 years is not a short timespan and if GRRM had been able to devote 100% of his time in those 3 years to writing TWoW, the book would likely be nearing completion by now, or at least be a lot more than half done. However, by GRRM's own admission, both Lands and World of Ice and Fire took up a lot more time than anticipated, as did several short story projects. Between the release of ADWD in July 2011 and his comment in April 2013, it appears that he maybe wrote, completed and finalised about 10-12 chapters (there were about 5 left over from ADWD), a reflection of not being able to concentrate all of his writing time on TWoW.

Since April 2013 or thereabouts, he has had much more time to focus on TWoW. I could certainly believe that rapid progress has been made, and if GRRM reported he was now 50% done I would not be surprised. Being almost 100% done, to announce a release date in 2014, would seem to be highly unlikely, as it would require him to have written faster than almost at any time in the series to date. It would mean that GRRM would be able to complete TWoW in 3.5 years (the same as the first four books, give or take a few months each) when he himself has admitted to not having much time to work on the book for at least the first 12-18 months of that period. This does not seem likely. If it turns out he was able to get a lot more done in that period than previously admitted and he was being overly-pessimistic, than that would be great, but it flies in the face of the information we have to hand right now.

not true at all. GRRM didn't finish ADWD until May 2011 and the book was released only 3 months after that point. A fast publication is indeed possible as GRRM himself has said quite a large number of times. If the demand is high enough the publisher will supply

GRRM did inform us that he was almost on top of the end for some considerable time before that and he started making frequent progress reports on ADWD almost 18 months earlier, after maintaining near-total radio silence on ADWD's progress for almost 2 years before that. The release date was also announced 6-7 months ahead of time. So to get the book out in 2014, we'd certainly be hearing much more positive noises than we are right now. We're still in the 'radio silence' period on TWoW right now.

In fact, if GRRM follows his normal modus operandi and starts making more positive noises as the book pulls into its second half imminently, then we might still be a year or more away from release. Of course, GRRM has also said he doesn't want to make as frequent updates for TWoW as he did during the latter period of working on ADWD, so the situation may be different with regards to his updates and reports. But I think it is very clear that if the book could come out in 2014, we'd be hearing noises about it now.

I feel bad for us readers, so desperate for a new book that we've deluded ourselves into believing preposterous theories about GRRM being "secretly" done and plotting to "suprise" us.

To be fair, George did surprise us with how quickly AFFC came out. At the start of 2005 it was sounding like the book was still a long, long way off from being done and then suddenly wham, we get the completion announcement almost out of nowhere. But of course that was only possible due to the split, which can't really be the answer this time around.

What about what Cunningham and Dotrice said about the book?

Unconfirmed second-hand reports about what GRRM might have said months earlier. Certainly nothing to be relied on.

now I have something to shove in the face of all of the yoyo's telling me he finished his part of the world book a year ago, lol

As I believe was said at the time, he was mostly done with it, rewrites and editing permitting. As Ran made clear, this material GRRM just finished was an extra bit inserted at the publisher's request, i.e. as part of the normal editing and revision process (Ran and Linda have also been doing the same thing, as their update makes clear). The bulk of time since last year has been available to be spent on TWoW (which doesn't necessarily mean it was or that rapid progress was made even if so).

What I don't understand is how we can have AWoIaF before ASoIaF is complete. Won't there be things from WoW and DoS that will be excluded from the concordance?

The concordance ends with Robert taking the throne, so presumably not.

Just saw a new preview of season 4 of GoT and Bravos is in it which means arya's alrdy going to be in Bravos by the end of the season

This is not the case:

The establishing shot is from a new storyline in which Stannis and Davos visit Braavos and win the financial support of the Iron Bank

before Stannis goes to the Wall. It is an ADWD storyline, but done in a different way. Based on current info, Arya won't leave Westeros until Episode 8 or 10.

a publisher also stated it was coming out this year and later said it was a joke

That was another author, Robin Hobb, who was joking that it would be just her luck for GRRM to publish his new novel on the same day as her new book (which is out this summer) and she'd lose sales as a result. It was a writer's joke. It was the response to that joke where the publishers actually said that 2014 was out of the question for TWoW, and 2015 might still be doable.

My original post stated that I have a friend who is a Random House Employee - True.

"2015" is what it says in the Computer System at Random House -True

Said Employee informed me that Bantam is announcing the release date this month - TRUE

Now if that happens or not is not on me, it's true that's what this employee told me, whom I trust and have known for 18 years.

Said Employee estimates that its coming in spring 2015.

I made the PREDICTION that it would come sooner, this year, around August.

The problem here being that Ran - who has a book being published by Random House and has seen some early TWoW material - has flatly contradicted this. I also have contacts at Random House and Voyager, and they have both indicated that 2014 is not happening but 2015 is not off the table.

To be clear on this point, I'm not saying that you are lying or trolling, but your information is clearly incorrect as it has been contradicted several times by other sources, including senior editors at the publishers in question.

What happened in 2011? When GRRM wasn't finished with ADWD yet? March 2011....GRRM wasn't finished with ADWD yet.....But when did ADWD come out? 2011? June/July?

The publishers announced the release date in quite early 2011, before GRRM actually finished the book. GRRM had also spent all of 2010 and the latter few months of 2009 saying that the book was coming together, with only the resolution of the Knot delaying things a few times in that period (it had, previously, been a much bigger problem).

For TWoW to come out in 2014, we should be seeing similar, frequent updates or at least much more confidence on the part of both authors and publishers. Certainly we did not have a situation where the publishers denied that the book could come out in 2011 at all, and then it did.

Do GRRM's books release in the US and the UK on the same date? Some books have a delay between the two. Don't know whether that's determined by authors or publishers.

They do now. They actually used to come out in the UK a lot earlier. A Clash of Kings was out in the UK 4 months before it was released in the USA (October 1998 versus February 1999, the source of the occasional mislisting of ACoK as a 1999 novel), 3 months for ASoS and one month for AFFC. However, my understanding now is that, going forwards, they will release on the same day, as ADWD did.

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Lady Blizzardborn,

Yes, there can be differences between the two markets, I even remember some of the books being released earlier in UK, but that difference is still insignificant.

I find it significant. Let's say there is a month between release dates, and the US gets the earlier publishing date. If TWoW is published in the US in December of 2014, and in the UK in January of 2015, then both those who are saying late this year and the publisher in England who said not this year can both be correct.

Yeah, not a big difference (we still have to wait no matter what), but we're looking at years rather than specific months. Technically the UK release could be December 31st, and the US release three days later and they'd still be considered published in different years.

Point being we won't know until we know. Which sounds terribly trite and possibly redundant. I'm going to go get some more caffeine now.

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They do now. They actually used to come out in the UK a lot earlier. A Clash of Kings was out in the UK 4 months before it was released in the USA (October 1998 versus February 1999, the source of the occasional mislisting of ACoK as a 1999 novel), 3 months for ASoS and one month for AFFC. However, my understanding now is that, going forwards, they will release on the same day, as ADWD did.

Thanks, Werthead. :)

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Here's a funny summary of the Vanity Fair interview from the avclub:


http://www.avclub.com/article/george-rr-martin-might-be-little-panicked-game-thr-202330





But when the subject turns to the speed of the TV show’s production—compared to the relatively unhurried pace of Martin’s written output—the author rambles a bit.


See, the show has been turning out a new season every year, adapting either half a book or a whole book at a time. Meanwhile, Martin has two more entries planned in the series, and he’s taken about half a decade between each of the last couple books. The math doesn’t work out so well for the harried scribe. You can practically see Martin dab sweat from his forehead and take large, hurried gulps of ice water as he reveals his ramshackle plan to get everything done in time:





I really don't begrudge Martin taking all the time he needs to finish the books at all. I'd rather have a perfect ending than one he rushes out to feed the hungry masses. But the thing is, if the show ends before Dream of Spring comes out, we'll already have seen a half-assed version of the ending, and it'll spoil the pleasure we'd get from reading Dream the first time. Sure, they'll be different in many ways and the book will certainly be more fleshed out. But I won't be reading it thinking "I can't wait to find out what happens next!" but "I wonder how this'll be compared to the show." I highly doubt that's what George wants. But sadly, he kind of made his bed by signing off on the show and then taking his time with the books. Oh well.


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They do now. They actually used to come out in the UK a lot earlier. A Clash of Kings was out in the UK 4 months before it was released in the USA (October 1998 versus February 1999, the source of the occasional mislisting of ACoK as a 1999 novel), 3 months for ASoS and one month for AFFC. However, my understanding now is that, going forwards, they will release on the same day, as ADWD did.

Though perhaps useful to mention..

On amazon.co.uk, Rogues (the anthology containing the next false piece of history by GRRM) won't become available until september as a hardcover book (it will become available as a kindle in June).

On amazon.com, Rogues will become available in both formats on the same day in June.

Just in case people really want the hardcover and hadn't noticed yet... I saw it when looking for a way to reserve a hardcover copy so it can be send to my countrey.

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Here's a funny summary of the Vanity Fair interview from the avclub:

http://www.avclub.com/article/george-rr-martin-might-be-little-panicked-game-thr-202330

I really don't begrudge Martin taking all the time he needs to finish the books at all. I'd rather have a perfect ending than one he rushes out to feed the hungry masses. But the thing is, if the show ends before Dream of Spring comes out, we'll already have seen a half-assed version of the ending, and it'll spoil the pleasure we'd get from reading Dream the first time. Sure, they'll be different in many ways and the book will certainly be more fleshed out. But I won't be reading it thinking "I can't wait to find out what happens next!" but "I wonder how this'll be compared to the show." I highly doubt that's what George wants. But sadly, he kind of made his bed by signing off on the show and then taking his time with the books. Oh well.

speak for yourself. GRRM took nearly six years to write A Dance with Dragons and it was the weakest book in the series, IMO

if he had the two battles in it I might think otherwise, but as the book stands quite a lot of the story has nothing happening. Some of Tyrion's chapters in particular added nothing to the story; I'm mostly talking about his travels with Jorah

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I disagree I rather enjoyed dance. Feast was weak....however if read alongside with dance it becomes much better. My best in order would have to be Storm of swords, game of thrones, dance, clash, then feast. I really enjoyed them all though.

But yea 5-6 years a book is pretty bad that's like 3/4 a page a day. I always wonder how long it really took him to write GoT because he supposed started in 91 and took a break from it and it came out in 96...who knows.

But it's his story so he can do as he pleases. Not his fault we treat asoiaf like crack....I wonder what life will be like once it's all said and done, you know we'll want more

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I disagree I rather enjoyed dance. Feast was weak....however if read alongside with dance it becomes much better. My best in order would have to be Storm of swords, game of thrones, dance, clash, then feast. I really enjoyed them all though.

I love the logic GRRM had writing ADWD

let's build up to two epic battles, but not show them. It's like A New Hope minus the attack on the Death Star, ha ha ha

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I love the logic GRRM had writing ADWD

let's build up to two epic battles, but not show them. It's like A New Hope minus the attack on the Death Star, ha ha ha

Yea, he coulda gave us atleast one battle, the one of fire, then have us battle of ice. Woulda been just like Star Wars, we'll not really but battle of ice is kinda empire strikes backish, or more like stannis strikes back

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I love the logic GRRM had writing ADWD

let's build up to two epic battles, but not show them. It's like A New Hope minus the attack on the Death Star, ha ha ha

You imply that he intentionally worked towards not including the battles at the end of the book. Can you back this up? Or, do you have info that this was not an editorial decision based on maximum text length? (A regrettable decision, nonetheless.)

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You imply that he intentionally worked towards not including the battles at the end of the book. Can you back this up? Or, do you have info that this was not an editorial decision based on maximum text length? (A regrettable decision, nonetheless.)

it was a joke and a massive mistake on GRRM's part not to include those battles. I know GRRM likes Tyrion, but there were quite a few Tyrion chapters in this last book in which nothing happened, when he joins up with Jorah in particular. So a few of those could of been edited out, along with a few Dany characters of her doing nothing relevant and maybe even a Jon chapter or two and bang we would of had at least one of the two battles in the book

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I believe it could be argued that the climaxes would be The fighting pit, Quentin getting burned alive and not to mention Jon getting stabbed. I think the battle of fire will be atleast a hundred pages if not more I enjoyed victarians chapters in DWD a lot too. They shoulda thrown in atleast storms end or something of the such, but coulda shoulda woulda won't change it not, I think how they left Jon, Jaime and dany was perfect at the end of DWD.

I would say Sansa and Sam too but oh wait that was AFFC hard to believe it's been freaking ten years since a new chapter from either of them has come out.

I think the letter wrote to Jon was the point of leaving out the battle of ice. And battle of fire was too long to put in.

Seriously Though I still hope that dude with the prediction who said he knows a guy who knows a guy that says it's coming out or being announced is right

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